Public Enemy "How Copyright Law Changed Hip Hop" -ACID Product Family

Subject:Public Enemy "How Copyright Law Changed Hip Hop" Posted by: Newf Date:6/4/2004 3:13:12 AM Interview on Alternet.org with Chuck D and Hank Shocklee of Public Enemy. While not a technical legal brief, this is a highly entertaining piece on their sampling methods and the development of copyright law in this and related areas of music in general.
Subject:RE: Public Enemy "How Copyright Law Changed Hip Hop" Reply by: ATP Date:6/4/2004 11:04:30 AM great read! thanks for the link. :)
Subject:RE: Public Enemy Reply by: coolout Date:6/5/2004 5:04:06 AM i think the funny thing is that PE doesn't fully realize the continuation of their innovations. i don't think collage sampling as a production technique died or even went underground. dr. dre's "the chronic" changed the whole market for hiphop because it was the start of the radio-friendly, pop-thug, version of hiphop. it firmly replaced the soft pop rap (see hammer/tone loc) by the use strong musical hooks (often blatantly ripped off), coded language and alternate song lyrics to disguise the promotion of drug use, violence, degradation, and objectification of women. all while the kids were singing along in the backseat of the car. nowadays this is the dominate form of rap. most people who are in their early 20's don't even realize things weren't always this way. when i'm spinning in a club and some chick comes up to the booth and says she wants to hear "some hiphop" 9 times out of 10, this is what she's really asking for. she wants to hear 50 cent or ludacris tell everyone to start fighting "The more drinks in your system the harder the fight!", or "go up upside your head with a bottle of bub" blah,blah,blah "...in the club" or she wants lil' jon to command her to dance like a stripper "Bend over to the front and touch your toes" while he sits there and drinks hennessy. the only thing this has in common with PublicEnemy is the vocals are rapped and major record labels are cashing in on the product...nothing more. it's almost a different genre. public enemy never had a mainstream radio hit until "can't truss it" which was way after the groundbreaking 2nd and 3rd albums. i think that was on the 5th album... if anything cats are sampling MORE. guys like dj shadow are making albums completely out of collage sampling and only clearing major reconizable loops not drum hits or single notes. plus many of the guys really pushing the sampling envelope are on independant labels that fly under the lawsuit radar most times. without the pressure of radio hits, video, and expensive promotion a lot of artists are making money and not really worrying about the lawyers. it's the same with mash-ups. there's a cottage section of vinyl sales (which is a cottage segment of music sales) of quality mash-ups. DJ's love them and the good ones sellout all around world. there's nothing like playing a exclusive version of a popular song that few know about or can get a hold of. the moral is have fun, be creative, and don't sweat the suits until the suits sweat you...chances are they won't.
Subject:RE: Public Enemy Reply by: ATP Date:6/5/2004 6:52:42 AM ---------------------------------------------- if anything cats are sampling MORE. guys like dj shadow are making albums completely out of collage sampling and only clearing major reconizable loops not drum hits or single notes. plus many of the guys really pushing the sampling envelope are on independant labels that fly under the lawsuit radar most times. without the pressure of radio hits, video, and expensive promotion a lot of artists are making money and not really worrying about the lawyers. --------------------------------------------- this is interesting, because my songs are like DJ Shadow's in that it's 99% samples and loops, and it's not strange to see over 30 samples in one track for me. (not that my stuff is as good as his, but that's another story ;)) but because of the amount of samples, i am worried that getting my stuff on a label is going to be very hard. clearing just one of my tracks would already cost lots of money if every even slightly recognizable piece and bit has to be accounted for. i guess the only options are either paying big bucks, or going independant, with all the possible risks that might include. sometimes i wonder if there will ever be somethng between those extremes, something that people can actually afford, and without the trouble of possible legal action. but then, maybe i oughta send out some demos first. if nobody likes it there's no need to worry about legalities. ;)

Subject:Public Enemy "How Copyright Law Changed Hip Hop"

Posted by: Newf

Date:6/4/2004 3:13:12 AM

Interview on Alternet.org with Chuck D and Hank Shocklee of Public Enemy. While not a technical legal brief, this is a highly entertaining piece on their sampling methods and the development of copyright law in this and related areas of music in general.

Subject:RE: Public Enemy "How Copyright Law Changed Hip Hop"

Reply by: ATP

Date:6/4/2004 11:04:30 AM

great read! thanks for the link. :)

Subject:RE: Public Enemy

Reply by: coolout

Date:6/5/2004 5:04:06 AM

i think the funny thing is that PE doesn't fully realize the continuation of their innovations. i don't think collage sampling as a production technique died or even went underground.

dr. dre's "the chronic" changed the whole market for hiphop because it was the start of the radio-friendly, pop-thug, version of hiphop. it firmly replaced the soft pop rap (see hammer/tone loc) by the use strong musical hooks (often blatantly ripped off), coded language and alternate song lyrics to disguise the promotion of drug use, violence, degradation, and objectification of women. all while the kids were singing along in the backseat of the car.

nowadays this is the dominate form of rap. most people who are in their early 20's don't even realize things weren't always this way. when i'm spinning in a club and some chick comes up to the booth and says she wants to hear "some hiphop" 9 times out of 10, this is what she's really asking for. she wants to hear 50 cent or ludacris tell everyone to start fighting "The more drinks in your system the harder the fight!", or "go up upside your head with a bottle of bub" blah,blah,blah "...in the club" or she wants lil' jon to command her to dance like a stripper "Bend over to the front and touch your toes" while he sits there and drinks hennessy.

the only thing this has in common with PublicEnemy is the vocals are rapped and major record labels are cashing in on the product...nothing more. it's almost a different genre.

public enemy never had a mainstream radio hit until "can't truss it" which was way after the groundbreaking 2nd and 3rd albums. i think that was on the 5th album...

if anything cats are sampling MORE. guys like dj shadow are making albums completely out of collage sampling and only clearing major reconizable loops not drum hits or single notes. plus many of the guys really pushing the sampling envelope are on independant labels that fly under the lawsuit radar most times. without the pressure of radio hits, video, and expensive promotion a lot of artists are making money and not really worrying about the lawyers.

it's the same with mash-ups. there's a cottage section of vinyl sales (which is a cottage segment of music sales) of quality mash-ups. DJ's love them and the good ones sellout all around world. there's nothing like playing a exclusive version of a popular song that few know about or can get a hold of.

the moral is have fun, be creative, and don't sweat the suits until the suits sweat you...chances are they won't.

Subject:RE: Public Enemy

Reply by: ATP

Date:6/5/2004 6:52:42 AM

----------------------------------------------
if anything cats are sampling MORE. guys like dj shadow are making albums completely out of collage sampling and only clearing major reconizable loops not drum hits or single notes. plus many of the guys really pushing the sampling envelope are on independant labels that fly under the lawsuit radar most times. without the pressure of radio hits, video, and expensive promotion a lot of artists are making money and not really worrying about the lawyers.
---------------------------------------------

this is interesting, because my songs are like DJ Shadow's in that it's 99% samples and loops, and it's not strange to see over 30 samples in one track for me. (not that my stuff is as good as his, but that's another story ;))

but because of the amount of samples, i am worried that getting my stuff on a label is going to be very hard. clearing just one of my tracks would already cost lots of money if every even slightly recognizable piece and bit has to be accounted for.

i guess the only options are either paying big bucks, or going independant, with all the possible risks that might include. sometimes i wonder if there will ever be somethng between those extremes, something that people can actually afford, and without the trouble of possible legal action.

but then, maybe i oughta send out some demos first. if nobody likes it there's no need to worry about legalities. ;)