If you would check out Tom's hardware you would have known most of this.

Audio benchmarks:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-40.html

Video benchmarks:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-35.html

Let's look at a typical session sheet

1. "3 mic" kick
2. "3-mic" left
3. "3-mic" right
4. Kick
5. Snare
6. Tom 1
7. Tom 2
8. Tom 3
9. HH
10. Ride
11. Bass DI
12. Bass Cab
13. Guitar 1 mic 1
14. Guitar 1 mic 2
15. Guitar 2 mic 1
16. Guitar 2 mic 2
17. Keys left
18. Keys right
19. Voc 1
20. Voc 2
21. Voc 3

now thats pretty minimalist on the drum side of things, but usually how I like it, but sometimes there are more mics on the kick and snare, cymbal spot mics, maybe the drummer has 2 hats or more toms, etc... 24 isnt asking much

Whats your amd setup like? Can you hit solo when you are using UAD-1 fx when you have an external controller running?

ALESIS HD24 was probably designed for guys like you.

yup, I used to record to tape first, but then as things got faster I just record on the PC. Recording is not the problem strangely, its the bugs in mixing.

Just curious...did the AMD have a Via chipset or an nVidia nForce?
Via and audio/video editing don't seem to get along very well.

Mario

nforce 2 was the name on it, an MSI mobo. I dont know much about PC's in general and very little about AMD, so these might have been crappy components

Nope...nForce2 is good.
MSI...I don't know about that one.

Pipe, you push this app probably harder than anyone on this board. I've been around for a few years and noticed you've always had problems with major system hiccups.
Have you ever tried running the SAME project on a different app ,say Sonar, to see if it hangs on that app also. If after you've tried it on a couple apps and the project still crashes, you know it's hardware. If it only crashes in Vegas, well...

Mario

20. Voc 2
21. Voc 3

These seem a little unnecessary. Are these for recording backing vocals? I'm wondering how your room setup is then? Seems a little bit on the dumb side to record backing vocals for the original takes, if that's what these mics are for. Unless you want extra bleed of backing vocals going into other nearby mics, plus not to mention the backing vocals cause the musicians to concentrate on 2 things at the sametime, (ie vocals + instrument). No wonder you have to do so many takes and the drummers can't play a consistant beat longer than 12 measures. You're making them work twice as hard as they have too.

Don't blame AMD.
I'm still using an old 2700 on XP and its as solid as a rock. The only trouble I have is a few Vegas bugs.
I regularly record 32 tracks at once (for live location recordings) no problem with asio at 64. I have tested 64 tracks simultaneously also no problem. I have more inputs so I could test even more, but I don't think there is much point.
On this 'old' cpu I get 38 stereo and 51 mono Waves C4's (older version- I think newer Waves is optimised better)
I am interested in what an equivalent P4 does in our application, this is the only relevant benchmark test for us

I am happy to buy a P4 next or else the latest AMD. I just want best performance, the old argument of reliability-conflicts I don't think applies anymore. But it certainly used to with old VIA chipsets.

NONO theyre making me work twice as hard as they are suckass. Bands read the back of cereal boxes that tell them how to record and be an engineer and how they must have protools etc. One of the major buggies they like is the " pearl garden pilots says that they all record at once and everything is one take no overdubs"

THAT is the reality I have to deal with. Yes if in fact the band lets me push them around, then it will be done correctly, and my list of records can attest to that.

But thats no guarantee. Since the backside of a cereal box automatically makes the parent of the bands MUCH smarter than me, then hey, I just have to follow what they say.

The world I would LIKE to deal with is constantly at odds with the world I MUST deal with.

So no, nothing dumb about doing what the customer says

But you DO understand we are on the same page, and given a perfect world, the drummer would most likely be playing just by himself, or maybe with a bass player

I LIKE multitracking, I LIKE overdubbing. And they will be overdubbing anyway, but at the beginning of a project they just dont believe it

What is your setup? Sounds good to me. Are you running a UAD-1 and a Mackie control as well?

Out of curiosity Pipe, how much iso are you using ? How many overdubs are you doing? How often do you actually keep these play along tracks? Is this a single take track sheet or does it include overdubs? Just curious about your worflow.
Steve S.

Almost never, just like red says, end up keeping any of the original stuff except maybe drums. If you saw my iso setup you would die laughing and wonder how we could even bother to mic stuff separate. Wait till my Recording MArathon article comes out at rp, it has lots of pics and you will feel pity upon me

Lots and lots of overdubs.

Vegas' editing ability lets me keep my sanity in this crazy place!

Pipeline, I record with a MOTU 24i and 2408 at 24 bit and 44.1k. I've recorded 30 tracks at one time. I'm running a p4 2.8 on a Abit IC7 motherboard WITHOUT overclocking the CPU. 1 gig dual channel RAM , an Adaptec 160 scsi card into two fujitsu scsi160 hard drives. I haven't moved up to vegas 5.
Upgrade to Intel. Wonder how many tracks I could have got if I didn't run out of mics. I had room for 10 more lines and 1 2-channel spdf. I'm sure it would have died

I,ve got a 20' by 20' live room and 2 gobos, no iso both and no intention of getting one. Though I have used the bathroom and the hallway for amps. Normally only have amps and drums in the same room if I'm tracking jazz. I love those guys (and girls). Throw up a good stereo pair, 4 or 5 spots(which I barely use) and everythings golden.
Steve S.

Pipe,
Maybe you've just got harder headed clients than I have dealt with. Once clients start to try and play engineer, I usually listen to what they have to say. Then, I'll say, OK, we could do it that way......but here are the drawbacks of doing it that way.......one, we don't have a studio like Peal Jam, where they have 2 isolation rooms for each musian (please look around the studio at this time and point out the available isolation booths), one that holds their amp, and one that holds the musician with his vocal mic. They'll wonder..."what does that mean?" It means that the sound from your vocals and the sound from your guitar amp will not be completely on their own track, and when it comes time for me to mix down, I will be very limited in my mixing ability and compromises will have to be made. There next question might be, "why don't you have more isolation rooms?". Answer: Well we'ld like to have more isolation rooms, but that takes a lot of extra space and money to build. To do that we would have to charge you $1000/hr. like Pearl Jam has to pay, but then I suppose you might not be coming to our studio then? So since, we are limited to that, this is the best way to do it, that will make your recording sound the best and save you time and money in the long run. Explain to them the most important part we want to get on the first session of a song is to make sure the drums are perfect, if the drums are perfect, then don't worry about any mistakes the singer, guitar player, or bass player made, because we'll get those perfect later on overdubs. Further explain, they're only in the same room at the same time so they can feed off of each others vibe, as you where playing in a live situation. Maybe further say, "have you ever listened to a Live recording of a band? It never sounds as good as the studio version does it?" That's because they don't have isolation booths when playing live, so the sound doesn't sound as good. They therefore can pull upon their experience of listening to LIVE music recordings compared to studio recordings and will soon see the light, and come to realize you have a lot more knowledge in this field than they do, and start to listen to your advice.

When doing the first recording of a complete band, that's the only thing I make sure is well miced and isolated, the drums. The guitars I'll throw on 1 SM-57, and record the dry signal directly from a direct box, just incase they nail a performance they love, where I can later throw the cabinet by itself back in the studio, and rerecord the guitar part, but now it's totally isolated. The bass, I'll run straight to the console off a direct box connection, not even bother with a mic setup. I'm lazy, when recording an entire band. I hate taking 2 hours to setup microphones and baffles, before the band even starts to record. I'll spend little time there, and then spend the extra time double micing guitar cabinets, and bass parts in the overdubs, where it's a more controled environment. You're the boss in the studio, that's why they came to you for your expertise. If you don't show that expertise knowledge off right from the get, they'll walk all over you from then on.

ahh dude, you are living in the past. Its a past that I long for, but I tell you, over here nearer the left coast, things have gone bizarre

If you could only come hang out for a week, and bring some detroit parts with you, 1970-71 360 block, some mopar factory X forged crankshafts and some of those other motown goodies. You come see whats going on down here, you will pee your pants.

The parents insist the kids come to me, only because the albums sound better than the other places. The kids INSIST on going to Johnny-tatoo-piercings-cool studio owner guy, since he's the guy hanging at the clubs. The kids only come to humor the parents. The parents split when the sessions start so as not to cramp their kids style, and its ON from there. Each band "has a friend with PT" and they begin to try and educate you on crap. Its unreal

but I was thinking

Even when I have a good band in, Ill throw mics on all sorts of stuff, just incase. Hey were certainly not track limited anymore! I constantly submix for working mixes, so that Ill have stereo drums and stwereo main guitars and such to keep the track count down.

Ahh who knows.

All I know is that across different systems, I cant get vegas 4 and 5 to have the kind of performance I need, neither track count nor stability

Im willing to entertain that for any other app my hardware is great but not vegas. I am going to throw in my ever faithful and reliable SOundscape Mixtreme stoneage soundcard and see if I dont have better luck. Hell, Ill throw in My Echo Gina just to see

Man oh man you've got some pretty crappy clients round your way.

Round here, I'm the producer, I say how it gets done and because I do it better than anyone else for the money, they listen.

I speak to bands before they come in, to make sure they book enough time for the tracks they want to record, and make sure they know what's involved and are reasonably prepared.

Sure there are still some t***s but they're few and far between.

I gotta admit, I feel pretty sorry for you!

What I'm running is not kitted out for live recordings at the moment, so it's not really relevant to you. However, I will be kitting out for that feature (should I allow it!) when we move to our new premises.

How do you deal with the quanity of high-quality inputs you need to do live recordings right (preamps etc) or do you just not worry about quality for such recordings? I'm very surprised you don't cut down the musicians to just one vocalist, one guitar, bass and drums and then overdub the rest. What about double-tracking guitars? do you bother?

Jason

Well I do have a email I send out to potential clients and its kinda funny, kinda pricky, but so be it. If anyone wants to really cut me down and chop me up Ill post it here later.

But to answer your question, here is the front end in this room:

Mic Pre's:

4 X Neve 1272
2 X Neve 1081
1 X Focusrite Red 8 ( 2 channels)
1 X True Systems Precision 8 ( 8 Channels)
1 X Manley Voxbox ( 1 channel)
1 X Manley Dual Mono Tube Mic Pre ( 2 channels)
4 X ADM Channel Pre( API chips)
1 X SSL Logic FX G383 ( 2 channels Mic pre and G series EQ)
32 X Trident Series 24 ( hardly ever touch em)

Compressors:
4 channels of DBX Blue 160 SL
2 X LA-2A
2 X LA-4
Tons and tons of lesser DBX's

I dont have a problem on the front end and can get pretty picky, without ever having to use the console mic pre's. Of course one or two become favorites ( dont tell my partner or else he'll sell off the rest of the stuff) and the rest dont get used so much.

I am not disagreeing with you guys at all about what SHOULD happen, but for the vast majority of our clients it has no bearing. For the ones I DO care about, well, they read my potential client email and all is well

We need to start another thread about what in this day and age exactly a producer is and where the line can be if it can be, drawn. We wear a lot of hats, many times singing or playing guitar or bass parts on albums that the "artists" are incapable of playing. We come up with harmonies. Hell, when the client is completely clueless we even tell them what the hell to do totally.

But I still say I am an engineer

keeps me out of trouble

ugh no luck with the mixtreme :(

Nice front end!

I'm running a Manley Dual Mono as well - very fond of it. How do you find it, what sources would you normally put it on, and do you vary the negative feedback control much?

I tend to use it most the time on the '50' setting, although for fast transients I'll back it off a little.

I've got a load of new stuff coming soon... soon as I know exactly how much we have to spend I'll put up the details.

We're in the process of moving to a cool new, much bigger location on an island in the middle of the river Thames in London. Sweet, very very sweet.

Jason

Send some of your frosty English weather out this way please!

We mostly use that Manley Dual Mono on guitars. I have to say with lots of gear I never get as intimate with it as when I was young and just had a rockman sustainor and a vestax four track. I find that if a source is too sharp and trebly, I turn the gain switch higher, and if its too muddy I turn the gain switch lower, and almost always the channel gain knob goes the opposite direction of the gain switch. I just dont use it enough, I need to mess with it more, but there hasnt been an album in a while where a guitar didnt go thru that thing. Now weve got a pair of Mesa Boogie Recto Recording preamps, so maybe the manley will see less use from that but maybe more from other things. The Recto Recording pre's need some mods done to them and then I think they will be a GREAT studio tool.