Subject:Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Posted by: spinweb

Date:5/6/2004 9:27:59 PM

Does anyone know these two programs well enough to know what differentiates them? I'm a guitarist, singer/songwriter hoping to settle on a program and make pro-quality demos. I'm starting to get familiar with ACID but have, like everyone else, limited time to learn all this stuff!

If the statement below is true that: "When it's time to take their music to the PC, more guitar players and singer-songwriters rely on Cakewalk music software than anything on the market today." Why? Why do we not turn to ACID?

:)


Here's the feature list for Cakewalk - Guitar Tracks Pro 3:

Key features
When it's time to take their music to the PC, more guitar players and singer-songwriters rely on Cakewalk music software than anything on the market today. Key features include:

* Familiar multitrack recorder interface
* Record and play back up to 32 audio tracks
* Arrange music with point and click ease
* Extensive audio editing capabilities
* Superior sonic quality—up to 24-bit/96 kHz
* Record your whole band using up to 32 inputs and outputs through multi-channel audio hardware
* 32x8 internal Mixing Console
* Mix and record using up to 32 simultaneous real-time effects
* Accurate envelope automation of mix parameters and effects
* Extensive SMART LOOPS ACID loop library for fast creation of backing tracks
* Import/Export .wav, .mp3*, and .wma files
* High-quality sample rate conversion when importing and exporting audio
* Support for multiple meters and tempos
* Unlimited undo/redo with edit history
* Use any Windows-compatible audio hardware via ASIO and WDM

*MP3 encoder is available as a 30-day trial version.

Thanks!

Rick

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:5/7/2004 5:03:23 AM

Did you ask on the cakewalk forum? If you can't get on that one, there are a lot of forums to check with. Here, we're going to say acid, because that's what we use.

BTW, if you already have acid, then use it and see how it works.

BTW2 - hows the search for an audio interface going?

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/7/2004 7:26:15 AM

Guitar Tracks Pro is essientially a very lite version of SONAR, with a musicians/(Guitarists) tilt in its approach.

Peter

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: spinweb

Date:5/7/2004 7:39:41 AM

Thanks Peter. Unfortunately I don't know anything about SONAR. The essence of my question is this. What makes Cakewalk OR SONAR different from ACID? Are they not looping? What's their niche? Why does anyone buy them instead of ACID? I really want to invest my time/$ in the best matched software to what I want to do, which is record pro-quality pop/rock song demos, not music beds, rap tunes, film scores, etc.

-Eric

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: rome

Date:5/7/2004 7:55:16 AM

If you need serious midi editing then go for Cakewalk otherwise I would reccomend Acid. I haven't used Cakewalk Guitar but I've used (normal) Cakewalk/Sonar since version 5. Both programs are incredibly powerful and flexible. Cakewalk's power seems to get in the way of my creative process whereas Acid doesn't. In my experience Acid iseasy and fun. Cakewalk is a chore.

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: rjt

Date:5/7/2004 8:49:20 AM

Download the demos and check them out. I have Acid and Sonar... different beasts. While Sonar now has lots of Acid loop playing, it seems to be that the loop stretching algorithm in Acid is much better and Acid is easier to use. For lots of midi stuff, Sonar is better (not sure how many Sonar features are not in Guitar). Also, Acid recognizes VST plug ins and not DX.... Sonar can do both with a VST adaptor (included in the purchase price) but the native format for Sonar is DX... there are lots of great plug-ins in both formats, but many more free vst effects and instruments thatn DX (IMHO).

The answer kind of depends on what you want to do. Try the demos

Take Care

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:5/7/2004 12:03:07 PM

Just because "more guitar players and singer-songwriters rely on Cakewalk music software" doesn't mean you should. If they jumped off a cliff, would you? ;o)

Seriously, as everyone has mentioned, you will probably have to decide for yourself which title works for you. (Some use both in some capacity, like SONAR for its MIDI and multitracking and ACID Pro for its looping and other general music bed chores.)

I'm a guitarist too. I chose ACID Pro. But don't stop there, as you'll probably need a digital audio editor such as Sound Forge to master your audio.

(Note that with either ACID Pro or Sound Forge, the MP3 encoder is free for unlimited use upon registration of the plug-in.)

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page
Guitars 4 Kids

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:5/7/2004 6:22:25 PM

I bought ACID Pro 4.0 instead of SONAR 3 because it fits my workflow better. I like writing music in sections and then assembling them in different ways to see how it sounds. So loops were a logical format for me and, IMHO, nothing does loops better than ACID. I tried using loops in the SONAR demo but it wasn’t as easy as using ACID.

I’m a keyboard player and I realize that SONAR has more MIDI features than ACID but I don’t believe in all that junk. You’re either a good musician or you’re not. If you need all that quantize, swing stuff and other crutches then perhaps music wasn’t a good profession for you. ;-) I realize non-musicians or non-keyboard players may need it, but as a keyboard player myself, I never touch the stuff. That’s just my own biased opinion. Call me crazy but I like to hear it the way I played it. So I didn’t care about the MIDI tricks that SONAR has. Just being able to play and record MIDI VSTi soft synths like ACID Pro has was good enough for me.

As far as Cakewalk, it looks to me like ACID has all the capabilities you listed except recording 32 tracks simultaneously. ACID just records one track at a time. If you’re just composing on your own (as I do) then this shouldn’t be a problem. The good news is, all the features you listed in Cakewalk that say 32 this and 32 that you can replace with unlimited this and unlimited that in ACID because it has no such limitations on the number of tracks or effects, etc.

Only you can determine what’s the right program for you. Forget about who has the most features especially if they are not ones you're likely to use. Consider your normal workflow and how each program fits into that. Download both demos and play for a week with each. That’s the only way to really tell. I just went through this so I know what you’re going through. Good Luck,

~jr

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: grainerr

Date:5/8/2004 12:25:03 AM

I've read the word "workflow" a few times in these replies. And that it the big reason (IMHO) why so many different types of music can be done with ACID. Very easy to easy to setup some, or better even, one simple drum track(s) and plug in the guitar and start recording along with them. Total time could be as quick as one minute to paint as many measures as you need, adjust tempo as required, plugin the guitar, set recording levels and go. Get the guitar parts down as best you can and as many takes as you need...you dont have to worry if you flub a few measures just use the parts and patterns that sound the best and copy and paste them around to suit your arrangement. Very simple in ACID. Once you have your song sounding like it wants to adjust the drums to go with the "feel" of your music. And from there once you have drums and guitar parts you can export those to another file and then you can "paint" those parts/patterns to try different song structures shuffle them around and do some experimentation. Again very easy with ACID ie workflow. I do play guitar and not getting impediments from software that takes away from creativity is what it's all about. Then you can add other instruments either with loops that come with basic program or buy additional ones or get someone or yourself to laydown some bass lines and you have the basis for a decent demo. Of course you need to learn the basics of ACID and learn how to record to your satisfaction and have a decent sound card with appropriate I/O. But for Software ACID facilitates workflow the rest is up to you. Plus it can do so much more that has not even been mentioned.

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: Jessariah

Date:5/11/2004 10:15:19 PM

Sonar and Acid can't be compared (for the most part, IMHO). They are very different apps. Acid "tries" to do MIDI. Sonar "tries" to loop (Groove Clip). Because of its MIDI support, Sonar is king if you're tracking is mixed with MIDI. If MIDI isn't important, Vegas is much more intuitive (as are all of the Sony apps). Acid is THE app for loop-based composition.

I use all three, and will continue to upgrade/use all three. They really do have their specific strengths, despite some feature crossover.

HTH

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: elemmons

Date:5/18/2004 9:04:03 PM

I have both ACID Pro 4.0f and the latest version of Sonar Producer edition.

I can't specifically address your question concerning Cakewalk Guitar software.

However, I find Sonar to be as easy or easier when doing loop-based music. There is a loop-explorer view in Sonar that is the equivalent of the explorer view in ACID. You have the same preview options, and you can drag and drop from Sonar's loop-explorer view into the track view. Sonar will create a new track automatically just like ACID if you drag the loop into an open space in the track view.

Sonar is much better than ACID for most of the other functions of musical software. MIDI recording and editing, mixing, effect options and automation, etc.. So, if I HAD to live with one program, it would be Sonar.

I like ACID a lot, but when I start a project with ACID I usually end up moving to Sonar for the MIDI and mixing functionality.

If Cakewallk Guitar has similar looping functions to Sonar, I think that as a guitarist, you might be happier with Cakewalk Guitar. Download the demo and see how the looping works before you make your decision.

Eric

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: elemmons

Date:5/18/2004 9:14:38 PM

I make the disclaimer that I don't work for Cakewalk :).

Now, having said that, I think Sonar is getting a bad rap here for it's loops-based features. I think the main reason is because Sonar does so much more, that the interface, on first use, is intimidating, and not the "simple" loop-based interface that ACID starts with. HOWEVER, if you just open the loop-exploer view in Sonar along with the track view, then TILE the windows in ROWS, you will get a VERY similar look to ACID. Sonar suppours ACIDized loops. It has enveloopes for volume/pan and effect automation. It comes with a large selection of effects (especially the Producer version), and has much more going on in the digital audio area and midi area than ACID.

Another little thing that probably bothers people in Sonar when doing loop-based stuff, is that you need to set the "resolution" you want the loops to "snap" to. This is very simple in the "Snap to Grid" options, you can chooose Measure, or any note value. In Acid, you expand the view, and you get more resolution.

Another minor issue with Sonar, is that you have to change the focus of the mouse between the loop-explorer view, and the track view. I believe that ACID does not have this minor glitch.

I use both programs, and like them both. I do use MIDI a lot, therefore, I usually end up in Sonar at some point.

I think Sonar should add an "automatic" loop-based view that would bring up the track window and the loop-explorer windows lilke I talked about above. Then if they fix the mouse focus glitch, you would be very close to ACID for loop-based production.

I like both programs, I just wanted to make the point that I think Sonar is much better at loop-based music than it's getting credit for.

Eric

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: spinweb

Date:5/21/2004 1:07:58 PM

Thanks everyone for the very helpful info. I have ACID Pro 4, and really like it. I just don't want to waste a lot of time and $$ learning something, only to find out that as I'm 90% done with my project, the software can't cut it!!!

One other question. In another thread, someone was saying that the actual sounds quality ACID produces is not as good as Cakewalk or some other app. Any comments on that?

Thanks!

Subject:RE: Cakewalk Guitar vs. ACID?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:5/21/2004 8:19:13 PM

In short, it sounds like somebody is a little biased to me. (Or uneducated as to how ACID works, one of the two.)

The long version: ACID's audio, especially ACID Pro, is just as good as any other pro-level audio app.

The only reason I can think of where the quality of audio would suffer is if the audio was timestretched to a certain degree where artifacts are produced. In that case, it doesn't matter what app we're talking about, as no app that I know of can work that much magic, not even any of Cakewalk's. Just the nature of the digital audio beast.

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page
Guitars 4 Kids