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Subject:Is Forge still supported?
Posted by: DaSoundGuy
Date:4/13/2004 1:45:32 PM
There was a time, when Sonic Foundry still owned Sound Forge, when serious bug tracking was done, and regular updates appeared fixing many reported issues. After several minor revisions, those versions ran really cleanly and were remarkably stable. Sony clearly does not have the same policy. Bugs and issues have been reported, but it's been months since an update. Is Sony still supporting Sound Forge? I'm just tired of the occaisional... Sony Sound Forge 7.0 Exception 0xC0000005 (access violation) READ:0xD0D90212 IP:0x1000DB20 In Module 'forgek.dll' at Address 0x10000000 + 0xDB20 Thread: GUI ID=0xB9C Stack=0x113000-0x130000 Registers: EAX=002e002a CS=001b EIP=1000db20 EFLGS=00010202 EBX=00000000 SS=0023 ESP=001136d0 EBP=00113f04 ECX=d0d90202 DS=0023 ESI=014de0b0 FS=003b EDX=00000000 ES=0023 EDI=00000000 GS=0000 Bytes at CS:EIP: 1000DB20: 8B 41 10 8B 51 14 C3 90 .A..Q... 1000DB28: 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 ........ Stack Dump: 001136D0: 100039DC 10000000 + 39DC (forgek.dll) 001136D4: 1002D52D 10000000 + 2D52D (forgek.dll) 001136D8: 002E002A 002C0000 + 2002A 001136DC: 001136E4 00030000 + E36E4 001136E0: 00113738 00030000 + E3738 001136E4: 014C4258 013E0000 + E4258 001136E8: 7FFDE000 7FFDE000 + 0 001136EC: 00432D59 00400000 + 32D59 (forge70.exe) 001136F0: 014DE0B0 013E0000 + FE0B0 001136F4: 00000000 001136F8: 019F6D28 019E0000 + 16D28 001136FC: 004D50A7 00400000 + D50A7 (forge70.exe) 00113700: 014DE0B0 013E0000 + FE0B0 00113704: 019F6D70 019E0000 + 16D70 00113708: 00000000 0011370C: 00000000 > 00113798: 004CF678 00400000 + CF678 (forge70.exe) 0011379C: 019F6D28 019E0000 + 16D28 001137A0: 00000005 001137A4: 00000000 001137A8: 00000000 > 001137AC: 004CF7DB 00400000 + CF7DB (forge70.exe) - - - 0012FFF0: 00000000 0012FFF4: 00000000 0012FFF8: 0052160C 00400000 + 12160C (forge70.exe) 0012FFFC: 00000000 ...interrupting my workflow. Thanks. DSG |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Spot/DSE
Date:4/13/2004 9:13:55 PM
Sound Forge is absolutely still supported. It might not be receiving updates, but they aren't abandoning this tool. Sony's really only owned the products since November. Yeah, they bought it earlier, but keep in mind that like the army, big corp's move slowly. |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Sonic
Date:4/14/2004 7:22:07 AM
Is this 7.0 or 7.0a? Any further info on what you are doing when this happens would be helpful. J. |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:4/14/2004 9:56:43 AM
"Sony clearly does not have the same policy. Bugs and issues have been reported, but it's been months since an update." I sure wish I could see the Sony vs Sonic Foundry difference and I've been using these apps for quite a long time. If you used Sound Forge v4.5 ala Sonic Foundry, it was on v4.5c well over a year, before an update was released. Then there where a burst of releases and v4.5h was set for a long time before v5.0 came out. Of course now DaSoundguy, will have to wait even longer for an update, because he posted a crash dump without giving any repro steps. So of course Sony can't fix what they don't know is broke. I bet you they say the same thing when Adobe purchased Cool Edit Pro. |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: porkjelly
Date:4/14/2004 10:00:08 AM
I've been waiting for them to patch the Graphic Dynamics & Multi-Band Dynamics bug for months. It's been almost six months! Hopefully, the fix is right around the corner. |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: DaSoundGuy
Date:4/14/2004 2:56:37 PM
Forge version 7.0a. And I'm not a beta tester and nor do I have time to be one. My problems are sporadic and happen often enough to be an irritation. I've been using Forge since 4.5 as well, and don't remember it crashing as often. Maybe I'm nostalgic for something that never was? But I do remember that my initial thrill in using SF products was that they were built from the ground up for Windows and were incredibly efficient and stable compared to everything else I had tried and was using. Currently, CubaseSX crashes less often than Forge. Never thought that would happen. The only recurring issue I can point a finger to is that many Forge crashes have happened while using the Explorer window to audition sounds. Can't repro: I just tried it and it's fine. DSG |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:4/14/2004 5:06:31 PM
"Forge version 7.0a. And I'm not a beta tester and nor do I have time to be one." Good point....except it seems like you have plenty of time to post gripes in the forums with follow ups. I think if you took that time and made it a little more constructive to your situation, then you'ld be a little closer to a solution. I have not had a crash dump since v7.0, I reproed the steps, reported the steps to Sony and it got fixed in 7.0a. I found 2 minor bugs yesterday and reported it to them, they said thanks and that they would be addressing them. I don't see a lot of posts for crash issues on v7.0a, which is more of a major bug and usually get's a high priority with Sony. I also am not experiencing the same problems, probably using different hardware on 2 seperate systems. So that leads me to believe you might have a hardware conflict problems. Sorry, I haven't seen you post any of your hardware that is on your system, which shouldn't take hardly anytime, and would be a tremendous help, where even another user with the same hardware can say they're experiencing the same problem or say they're using the same hardware without ANY problems. "My problems are sporadic and happen often enough to be an irritation. I've been using Forge since 4.5 as well, and don't remember it crashing as often. Maybe I'm nostalgic for something that never was?" I've had v4.5 crash and lock up on a regular basis, way more than v7.0. Realized later it was probably due to running it on Win98se, because I didn't have all that crashing running it on a win2k machine. So what OS are you running again, I missed that one? "Currently, CubaseSX crashes less often than Forge. Never thought that would happen." CubaseSX crashes too? Hmmmmm.....less often but it does indeed crash on the SAME system. You think, that could be a clue as that there maybe something wrong with your system? How about the cooling isn't sufficient and your CPU is getting too hot, causing crashes. Sounds more probable too me, if the crashes are "sporadic". I'm not saying the problem isn't caused by Sound Forge, but from the information you're presenting so far, we'll never know for sure unless you can come through with some solid information. Good luck |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: MJhig
Date:4/14/2004 6:16:28 PM
I was a 98 SE advocate and could make a stable system for all my clients with it, loved it, of course none of them were trying to run DAWs. I must say however, now with XP Pro or Home, no matter what they or I run, crashes are virtually non-existent unless they are connected to the internet and are loaded with spyware and/or a ton of TSRs or legacy apps or hardware. XP is cutting my business actually. In fact I see many systems that shouldn't/wouldn't run with prior OS's but do with XP. I'd suggest you take a hard look at your system, hardware/drivers, software and exactly the steps you take when the crash occurs, post as much about it as possible. The more info the better. MJ |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: DaSoundGuy
Date:4/27/2004 1:18:30 PM
Finally, I got a repro. A by-product of CD-Extract conversion, this mystery ".wav" file, which is probably just a corrupt file, causes an immediate crash of Sound Forge and Vegas. Interestingly,CubaseSX also freaks though it doesn't crash, while Awave, Audacity, and others do what all these programs should: report something wrong with the file and simply refuse to load it. Should I submit this thing, and if yes, how? DSG |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:4/27/2004 5:41:04 PM
You could, if you want, submit the file via "SUPPORT>Email Support" at the top of this page. (You'll have to register a support account, but it's free.) HTH, Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Spheris
Date:4/28/2004 3:12:30 AM
Safe to say, no - 6 did not even get a courtesy rebranding or address to several outstanding issues with some things (though everything else did) 7 languishes waiting multiple fixes and yet ...hmmmm well maybe vegas was just what kept them busy. but wait, they have to do acid now too. I would not hold my breath on this one. |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: DaSoundGuy
Date:4/28/2004 7:53:43 AM
Thanks. Done. |
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Subject:RE: effects presets
Reply by: hv
Date:4/30/2004 10:31:29 AM
Think I may have experienced the same issue. But didn't realize it might be limited to only Graphic Dynamics and Multi-Band Dynamics. In any event, I posted a workarounds the problem for SFv6e and SFv7a under the topic "effects presets" at: http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=274980&Page=2 If your problem is the same, this may work for you too. Howard |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: pwppch
Date:5/4/2004 2:58:36 PM
From this dump, it appears you are running 7.0, not 7.0a. Please verify that you have the latest version installed. You may want to completely uninstall and start from scratch with 7.0a . Peter |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Geoff_Wood
Date:5/4/2004 3:07:38 PM
Hey Da, If SF7 is not supported any more, WTF are they doing taking out full-page adverts in all the latest audio mags ?!!! Certainly do report faults by the formal channel (ie other than here) otherwise they don't necessarily know that there is a problem and you would like it fixed. There is a forums disclaimer to that effect when you reh\gister I vaguely recall.... geoff |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:5/4/2004 4:12:13 PM
"Safe to say, no - 6 did not even get a courtesy rebranding or address to several outstanding issues with some things." I was wondering if you could list those several outstanding issues with v6.0? Maybe you use Sound Forge differently than I do and I just haven't run across those issues, but I sure would like to know of them, unless that's just something you decided to throw out there? |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: DaSoundGuy
Date:5/4/2004 9:18:43 PM
"From this dump, it appears you are running 7.0, not 7.0a." Are you referring to my initial post? The "Help>About" says: Sony Sound Forge 7.0 Version 7.0a (Build 262). Is it possible for it to say that and still be running an older executable? TIA DSG |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:5/5/2004 6:03:04 AM
That is a bit odd. Why don't you try uninstalling the version you got and reinstalling v7.0a. I believe Peter was referring to the line you posted "Sony Sound Forge 7.0". Usually when there's a stack dump, like that it will say "7.0a", if you are runnning 7.0a. |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Spheris
Date:5/5/2004 8:52:53 AM
Three outstanding ones that I find Red. And no they aren't showstoppers. Just really iritating. 1. Division of the direct-x tree into a mess, sony and sonic foundry folders split up among themselves. Minor, and not really much more than just sloppy from a working standpoint. 2. Linkage breaks with everything else with the installation of new updates - vegas5 and dvd2 breaking ac3 support in older versions and unrelated apps - ACID. Again, a call to fix - minor but yet again sloppy. 3. The continuing strangeness of izotopes plugins only running in the chainer now under 6 - and functioning normally in 7. Now that one is just simply strange. But then again a possible problem with the change to the chainer in 7 that peter mentioned before. 3-a The problems not yet addressed in 7a/proxies etc that have been langushing for months because I'm fairly sure there is only so much time in the day and they've been busy with vegas. So that one is kind of split - as a developer. I'll give some credit on that. But the time is now - not later. 4 the rebranding is a minor thing, I know. but they still have a back catalogue and yes sony bought 6 with everything else. The reason why they would not rebrand it remains a mystery. Along with the bizarre nature of the unicode, directory tree strangeness that we've seen so far. For what its worth. I grant these are "minor things" but for software that costs several hundred dollars per piece. I would like some peace of mind in seeing some consistency within it. I'm fairly sure I'm not alone in that. Say Ford being bought by Datsun and the tagging, swapping of parts that break certain expected functions/appearances in the car you bought as you go. Say you get your car back from the dealer with datsun tags and your odometer goes backwards and now you have to hit a button and the clutch and look left and authorize it by phone call when you shift gears - when it should be left foot, shift - end of story......It would be and is a little like that for what its done with my acid/forge working arrangement. And why I failed to convince the powers in my office to go with vegas after the confusion and breakage with both forge and vegas trials. Embarrassing to me to have tried. Even more embarrassing to Sony. It's NOT about picking on Sony, Red. But it IS about perceptions and quality of consistency in their future and CURRENT products. |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:5/5/2004 9:35:43 AM
"1. Division of the direct-x tree into a mess, sony and sonic foundry folders split up among themselves. Minor, and not really much more than just sloppy from a working standpoint." This one I don't see the problem. Taking your own analogy, this is like Ford who purchased Jaguar. Now you're looking for everyone who looks at an "older" Jaguar to see the Jaguar emblem and say, that's not a Jaguar, that's a Ford, it should be put into the Ford parking garage now and not the Jaguar garage. This is easy enough to fix though if it bothers you, you just need to open the preset manager and drag all your Sonic Foundry plugins into the Sony plugins folder and delete the Sonic Foundry folder. Messed cleaned up. You can even, rename the Sonic Foundry name that appears on the plugin within the plugin manager window. This is not a bug, it is your preference of how you think it should be done. I actually think it's done correctly, because I want to know the difference between my older Sonic Foundry plugins and the newer Sony plugins that get installed. So what may appear as a bug as too you, if it was changed may seem like a bug in the other direction for other users. "2. Linkage breaks with everything else with the installation of new updates - vegas5 and dvd2 breaking ac3 support in older versions and unrelated apps - ACID. Again, a call to fix - minor but yet again sloppy." I agree, this could be handled a little more graceful, but it has been addressed through the use of their "migration tool". So again, it's not a bug, it becomes a user preference of how you think things should be handled. I'm sure Sony had discussions on this, and looked at the complications of doing it either way, and obviously this was the approach they felt would work best. Maybe if it was done another way, it would cause a hundred different other problems, that you haven't seen. "3. The continuing strangeness of izotopes plugins only running in the chainer now under 6 - and functioning normally in 7. Now that one is just simply strange. But then again a possible problem with the change to the chainer in 7 that peter mentioned before." The DX favorites menu works differently than the plugin chainer in v6.0. The plugin chainer was developed after the DX favorite menu and addressed some issues with strange plugin behavior. I've seen similar things using Steinberg's Magneto plugin and had a few conversations on the problems I was having with Sony engineers. It's not a Sound Forge bug, it's the plugin vendors bug. Sony sometimes has to work around bad implementations caused by different plugin vendors. Here's the response I got from Sony, that probably explains why it works in the chainer and not the DX favorites menu and their priorities of dealing with plugin vendors bad implementation. So again, I believe you're barking up the wrong tree in saying this is a Sound Forge bug, it's really an Izotopes bug. Quote: (edited for clarity) "We've had trouble with other plug-in vendors not reporting correctly whether their parameters have changed, so we always fetch and reload them when you hit OK in the DX favorites menu (that was the change in 6.0). Unfortunately, it sounds like this one is returning something other than what you had set, probably all zeros after the UI has been destroyed. You might try saving your settings as a preset first, and maybe closing and re-opening the plugin with it, etc. though that may not work either. The chainer keeps a persistent version of it's settings to avoid things like this. This is the difference between the plugin chainer and the DX favorites menu. Severity-wise, we try to handle as much bad plug-in implementation as possible, but obviously need to concentrate on our own problems first. In fact, there's still a bug list of odd plug-in behavior you sent me for 6.0 in the database. Not to blow it off. It's all stuff we want to investigate and ping off 3rd parties at some point if we can't work around it, but we have our hands full with more critical bugs for 7.0a." |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Spheris
Date:5/5/2004 11:45:12 AM
Red, I thank you for probably the most clear explanation of the chainer I've ever seen (sony really should offer you a gig - considering their own phone services usually come up with something between a blank stare and the non commital "unsupported" answer) the migration tool though, bugs me - alot it's not a 100% fix for some of these things but I can see your point in that they made the best design compromises possible under the circumstances |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:5/5/2004 4:13:05 PM
"sony really should offer you a gig" They can't afford me <g> :-)~ LOL!! |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: pwppch
Date:5/6/2004 11:30:48 AM
Correct. I would do what Red recommends. Completely uninstall Forge and reinstall. Make sure you wipe out the set up directory that the install makes, as this has caused may a problems. Peter |
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Subject:RE: Is Forge still supported?
Reply by: DaSoundGuy
Date:5/10/2004 7:53:53 AM
Thanks. I'm in a 3-week run to an alpha on the project I'm working on. Presets can be exported and re-imported using the preset manager. Can the my custom classification of plugins in the DX menu be saved as well? I may just pass on the reinstall till the project's over. One thing I've learned over the years is not meddle with the sys, especially at a critical prod time. DSG |