DVD Audio Production

Rednroll wrote on 5/4/2004, 10:39 AM
I wanted to start a discussion, and see if anyone is doing DVD-A discs and if you could outline your workflow to get to the final DVD Audio disc.

What is your production process? From Mix to the Final DVD-A disc

What tools do you use in this Process? Mix tools? Encoding Tools? Authoring Tool? Burning to DVD-A tool?

What Formats of encoding formats do you put on the DVD-A disc? DTS? Dolby Digital? MLP? Dolby Prologic II Encoded Stereo file? All of the Above?

I've also seen CD's which have DTS encoded tracks on them. What Tools would you use to create a DTS encoded CD?

Comments

cosmo wrote on 5/4/2004, 12:16 PM
I make DVDs using DVD-Architect V1.0 semi-often. No problems encountered yet.

Process:
Mixing - whatever tracking for the project gets completed and I render each track individually, similar to destructive editing. My machine suffers from the bug that causes much stuttering and freezes Vegas after 10-12 tracks get going, so that's why I pre-render first, so my 5.1 mixing will go smoothly. I start a new Vegas project and set the properties to 5.1 and make sure my audio channels are routed properly. Then I'll do I quick test with one track, panning to all speakers to ensure I'm getting discreet signal to each speaker and the sub. Once mixed, I Render from Vegas to .ac3 format and usually use the default encoding parameters.

Next I open DVD-A, start a new project, import my media. If it's just 5.1 music, ie a song, I import just the .ac3 file. If it's a video and a 5.1 soundtrack I'll import the video, and then change the defaulted audio track(for the video) to point to the .ac3 file. Next I'll check the File>Optimize DVD dialog to ensure it's picking up the .ac3 file as DD 5.1 and then I'm ready to burn. Note - I've left off all of the ins and outs of menu design etc in DVD-A.

With the software I have loaded here, I only have the option to render from Vegas as AC-3, and I haven't tried to render as DTS but after a quick look I don't see any option for a DTS encode. The only DTS options I see are in project properties for cutoffs - DTS is lower than DD. I checked DVD-A too quickly and didn't see any option for encoding as DTS rather than DD either. I did see options for Dobly EX in Vegas's audio dialog, that's interesting.

When I play back the DVDs my receiver detects the DD signal and runs in normal 5.1 mode as it does with rented DVDs etc. If it's a stereo track, it gets endoded as DD2.0 PCM - according to my receiver. DVD-A calls it AC-3 Stereo and AC-3 5.1 for true Dobly Digital.

I can't comment on CDs with DTS encoded, haven't seen them. That's my process though, simple enough. I've been quite happy with the results thus far. Also note that I'm using Vegas 4.0 and not 5.0 here. My trial of 5.0 doesn't show the AC-3 format in the render options like Vegas 4.0 does. Maybe they're forcing a purchase of the Plug-in pack or the DVD-A 2.0 upgrade. Or it just doesn't work in the trial...who knows.
ramallo wrote on 5/4/2004, 1:50 PM
Hello,

For MLP disks (real DVD Audio) you need:

http://www.discwelder.com

http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com

You can make DVD-Video disks with PCM Audio up to 24/96 (Stereo) and blank video

Cheers
Rednroll wrote on 5/4/2004, 3:06 PM
Thanks Ramallo,
These are pretty much the 2 products I've heard about. I went to the minnetonka website and I was a little surprised. I guess I was expecting one app that would allow you to encode to the different formats. Their "surcode" seems to encode in all the different formats, but it sure will cost you some moucho denaro.

Surcode encoders
Dolby Digital 5.1=$995
Dolby Digital Stereo=$559
Dolby Pro Logic II=$495
DVD-DTS=$1995
CD-DTS=$499
MLP=$2495 (Ouch!!)
Rednroll wrote on 5/4/2004, 3:40 PM
Cosmo,
The type of disc you're making isn't technically a DVD Audio disc. It's essentially a DVD-Video disc without the Video. This type of disc will not playback in a DVD AUDIO player, unless the player specifically says it supports DVD-Video playback also, ala Dolby Digital. I was just checking out the Acura GL yesterday, which has a Panasonic DVD-Audio player system in it. This player will not playback a DVD-Video disc with a Dolby Digital .AC3 encoded track. DTS is the most widely used lossy encoder for DVD AUDIO music discs, where MLP is a lossless compression for DVD Audio discs and classifies it as being a genuine DVD-A disc. The Acura will playback DTS and MLP encoded tracks fitting the DVD-A format. Dolby Digital is the lossy encoder format, most widely used for DVD-Video. Here at Harman we just finished up our new Mark Levinson systems, which will be going in future Lexus vehicles and it plays back Dolby Digital and DTS tracks, but no MLP...yet. So it will playback DVD Video discs and DVD Audio discs with DTS tracks. It also has a decoder in it for Dolby Pro Logic II for non discreet surround along with .mp3 and .wma decoding also, which the Acura GL system can't do either. So, I guess when you make it rich and famous with your music career, you might be forced to buy a Lexus to play your DVD audio discs back....ahhhh...shaucks. :-)

Here's a link to a whitepaper on the Discwelder website that's makes it pretty easy to understand the differences between DVD-V and DVD-A, in a DVD format world that becomes confusing to most of us.

http://www.discwelder.com/pdfs/dvdAudioWhitepaper.pdf
tmrpro wrote on 5/4/2004, 3:45 PM
Minnetonka's the best bet out there from a cost standpoint.

Talk to John Calder, he'll help you out tremendously.

If you're going to go this route, just bust the bank and get the full blown version of Chrome w/Surcode for $4490. It works very well and will cover all of your DVD-A needs.

If you're going to do SACD, you'll need the Sonic Solutions DSD.1. It comes in at about $8k and if you want to author in the same realm using the Sonic Solutions' utility, the package cost is around $12k.

I would not suggest using the Sonic Solution solution for DVD-A.

It is a very small & very expensive world out their for this type of software. They have no competition, so they price it as they see fit.

I'm really suprised that there are no options for DSD encoding (for SACD) in V5.
tmrpro wrote on 5/4/2004, 4:07 PM
I forgot to mention the DLT. Manufacturers do not accept DVD +/-R discs for masters. You can listen to them and verify with them, but you must provide a DLT tape master of the image for the manufacturer.

This is an offline process and is done in realtime.

I've got an HP VS80 external. It's a 40g/80g and works really well. Tapes run about $50 and a drive can be had for about $1500.
Rednroll wrote on 5/4/2004, 4:16 PM
"Manufacturers do not accept DVD +/-R discs for masters"

Really? That's pretty good to know. What do you use to create the image? Discwelder? How about Nero? What file format does the image have to be in?
tmrpro wrote on 5/4/2004, 5:03 PM
Nero won't do it.

You have to use authoring software.

Let's say you have Discwelder Chrome, a DVD burner, some DVD blanks and a tape backup. This is what you would do.

If the DVD-Audio disc will contain only audio (music), authoring is as simple as drag-and-drop to create a playlist of songs. You can include video clips, visual text and photos as well. This is a summation of the process, but the software instructions will guide you through the process.

Collect the source material: multitrack audio tracks (PCM wav format) images for ASVs (still videos), text, web links, and other DVD-ROM content.

Make sure your source material is completely prepared sonically (and visually if using text, images, videos etc.)

Create your PQ subcodes

Data-compress the audio with MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing)

When you author the program you can create a navigational menu with menu graphics, photo clips, and hot buttons for quick linking.

Add copy control information (CCI) and fold-down coefficients (the relative loudness of surround tracks in the stereo mix). You might include a DVD-Video zone, which makes the disc compatible with DVD-Video players. This zone needs to include Dolby Digital (AC3s) or DTS audio and ASV's.

Then you'll render an image file of your authored work to the hard drive.

Write the image file to a DVD-R to test the program using a DVD-Audio Player.

If everything works, burn it to a DLT tape backup drive.
Rednroll wrote on 5/5/2004, 6:17 AM
Thanks for the further details, but you said the same thing with further details and really didn't answer my original questions.

"Then you'll render an image file of your authored work to the hard drive."
Q:What do you use to render the image to the hard drive? Disc Welder?
Q: What format is the Disc Image file written in? I want to know if it's an image type that's exclusive to using Disc Welder, or I might be able to use other software that recognizes that type of image or it's a particular image type that the duplication house specifies.

"Write the image file to a DVD-R to test the program using a DVD-Audio Player."

Q: The question was, what "tool" do you use to write the image file to the DVD-R? I'm assuming Disc Welder?

"If everything works, burn it to a DLT tape backup drive."

Q: Again, you say "burn it to a DLT tape". What tool do you use to do that? Windows, copy>Paste to the DLT tape? Software that came packaged with the DLT tape driver? DiscWelder?
tmrpro wrote on 5/5/2004, 6:59 AM
>>>>>>>>Q:What do you use to render the image to the hard drive?<<<<<<<

Discwelder

>>>>>>>>Q: What format is the Disc Image file written in?<<<<<<<<<

Its an ISO file type.

>>>>>>>I want to know if it's an image type that's exclusive to using Disc Welder, or I might be able to use other software that recognizes that type of image or it's a particular image type that the duplication house specifies.<<<<<<<

You can burn the image file with any burner, even put it on a CD and you can carry that image where ever you want. But it will need to be authored with the correct protocols in order for it to be played in a DVD-A player.

The file type is recognized by other programs, but it is creating the image file that will be recognized by DVD-A or SACD, whatever your case may be, that makes the difference.

Drag and drop your completed file to your tape backup.
cosmo wrote on 5/5/2004, 7:33 AM
Too cool. Red - sorry, misunderstood your question. I've been wondering about DVD-A discs too...thanks T for all the info.
ramallo wrote on 5/5/2004, 12:48 PM
Hello Rednroll

I have the Discwelder Steel and is not "mucho dinero" ;-) (I'm a poor man), 495$ for basic MLP

Cheers