PAL only V5 Bug?

nrmnchan wrote on 4/22/2004, 10:27 AM
After playing with V5 for a day, I think I have found a PAL only bug with the new version. The bug was discovered when I opened a V4 Veg file I was working on with V5 and found that the compositing was not correct. I have put together a small Veg file to illustrate; the file can be downloaded here. Just right click on the link and choose download target; just substitute the missing media with any avi file you have.

I sometimes use the '3D fly-in' transition at the begining of a clip to bring it in over a static background, normally the tracks below the clip will show through during the fly-in, but in V5 nothing show through, just solid black surrounding the flying clip.

What is curious is that the bug only show up if the project is set to any of the PAL settings, if I change the project to NTSC the bug disappear. Further examination also show that the bug only show up if the media is an AVI file; so far I have found jpg's, generated media and wmv's to be without problem.

To work around the bug, I either have to change the track composit mode to 3D source alpha (with which I will lost the abillity to add glow unless I nest it under one with 2D track motion I guess), or, nest all tracks below the one with the fly-in clip under the top track.

The other thing I've found with V5 is not so much a bug, but difference in the way the new version handles glow. In V4, if you turned on glow for a track, the glow will be there even if the frame is in full screen size and can't be seen (actually the glow will usually bleed through the bottom of the screen). In V5, it seems to me that the program will ignore the glow settings if the track motion position settings are not touched. Normally it won't be a problem, but if you try to use Satish's 3D LE plug-in to do a PIP that has glow surrounding the inner frame, no matter how you set the glow, it will not show up. If you change any of the track motion position parameters, the glow will pops back in like magic!

I wonder if anyone can confirm my findings, especially those who are in PAL land.

Other than these, and the very few bugs that others have already mentioned, I think V5 is very well written, and virtually bug free. Congratulations to the programing teem.

Norm

Comments

taliesin wrote on 4/22/2004, 10:57 AM
I have no solution to the one you mentioned but I like to repeat my infos about 2 other completely different PAL bugs which are in Vegas for quite a long time now:

- Using VidCap in Normal Capture mode, Scene Detection switched on, Minimum Clip Length set to standard which I think is 1frame: While capturing everything seems to work fine but if you completed the capture process not a single clip will be captured actually.

Only way to successfully capture in this mode is to turn Minimum Clip Lenth off.

- If you use certain type of Canopus DV AVIs or any kind of uncompressed AVI (if only PAL) Vegas automatically switches the field order from what it really is (Lower Field First) to Upper Field First.

I already tried to give this info to the support via the web page but it seems like this doesn't work. Hope somebody from the Sony staff reads this.

Marco

taliesin wrote on 4/22/2004, 11:10 AM
Now I downloaded your .veg-file and replaced the missing media with my own PAL dv file.

I can state what you reported. I can see the color background at beginning and end of the second clip which is NTSC. But I can NOT see the background at beginning and end of the first clip which is PAL. It's pure black in the background.

Marco
Rosebud wrote on 4/22/2004, 12:02 PM
I'm a PAL user and confirm there is a bug.
Udi wrote on 4/22/2004, 12:06 PM
It is very strange, but if you use pan/crop and reduce the size or move it slightly (make the center 360.1) it works.
You can also fix it if you change the track compositing mode to 3D source alpha or change the track motion to 3D source alpha.
It seems that some transition have this problem, and some don't - 3d blinds and 3d shuffle are working OK, while 3d Cascade, 3d fly and clock wipe are not working.

Udi
SonyIMC wrote on 4/23/2004, 8:53 AM
Rosebud,

Wich one of these is the bug you are confirming?

Thanks
Rosebud wrote on 4/23/2004, 8:58 AM
this one:
I sometimes use the '3D fly-in' transition at the begining of a clip to bring it in over a static background, normally the tracks below the clip will show through during the fly-in, but in V5 nothing show through, just solid black surrounding the flying clip.

thanks
SonyIMC wrote on 4/23/2004, 9:02 AM
OK, I have a repro.

Adding it to the db.


Thanks!

Ivan
taliesin wrote on 4/23/2004, 9:15 AM
Did you see the other PAL bugs which I listed above?

Marco
SonyNickJW wrote on 4/23/2004, 12:20 PM
Taliesin:
We have been unable to reproduce this inhouse.

What brand and model camera are you using?
Does the "no video captured problem" happen every time you capture or just with certain tapes?

taliesin wrote on 4/24/2004, 4:56 AM
I don't think this is camera/player depended. Not tape dependend either. And - yes - it happens every time we capture, except we set "Minimum Clip Length" to zero. Me, I use a Sony mini-dv deck GVD-300 and a Canon XL-1. Most of the time I use Panasonic dv tapes, also Fuji and Sony. But it's not only me having this problem. We run a german Vegas forum and a Vegas homepage and we get lots of feedback referring to this problem. This is why we put that one onto #1 FAQ on our german Vegas homepage. People with various kinds of dv cameras/recorder/players report about the same problem.

When you tried to reproduce it, did you use a PAL camera and set the project to PAL settings?

If I could help you in a different way please let me know. You could contact me even by mail ( mb[at]vegasvideo[dot]de ) or by phone (then either please give me a number or I'd give you my number by mail).

What about that "bug" switching the field order? I know this one is not a real bug but something which is dependend on the "vegas_profiles.ini"-file. There is a field which says:

Key2=0, "None", 720, 576, 25.0, 0
Attributes2="Upper First", 1.0925925925, "Undefined", 1

I edited the second line here from "Upper First" to "Lower First". Then the problem is solved.
But lots of Vegas user in PAL areas aren't aware of that one and stumble over it any time they use uncompressed AVI files or certain types of Canopus DV AVI (e.g. generated by Canopus Let's Edit or by Canopus RexRTPro with RexEdit). So maybe that "vegas_profiles.ini"-file is not correct the way it is!?

Thanks for your help!

Marco
PDB wrote on 4/24/2004, 5:06 AM
Yep, I too haver this problem with capturing in PAL(JVC minidv gp5 and a Panasonic PAL agdvx 100 with various brands of tape), and so do many, if not all, PAL Vegas users I come across in Spanish forums...Works exactly as Marco states...Just wanted to give the request for a solution for us Pal people a litlle more umph!

Thanks in advance,

Paul
taliesin wrote on 4/26/2004, 1:22 AM
Paul, can you also reproduce the "bug" with switched field order?

If you render a part of a video to uncompressed avi - what does the media properties (rightclick menu) say for the field order?

Marco
PDB wrote on 4/26/2004, 1:58 AM
Marco, I'll give it a try this evening when I get home (Vgeas unavailable here..) and post the results on this thread...

Regards
Paul.
SonyNickJW wrote on 4/26/2004, 8:28 AM


We have a repro in house. It has to do with regional settings. If I have my regional settings set to English (US), then I can capture from a PAL camera without any problems with minimum clip length checked, however if I change my regional settings to Germany, I get the "no video was captured" message after every capture, unless I uncheck minimum clip length.

We will look into the uncompressed PAL AVI issue as well.


SonyNickJW wrote on 4/26/2004, 8:47 AM
I have repro'd the uncompressed PAL AVI field order detection and this issue is now in the database.
taliesin wrote on 4/26/2004, 12:46 PM
Thanks SonyNickJW!

To that uncompressed issue. This might be related to the "vegas_profile.ini" file. It can be solved by changing the lines

Key2=0, "None", 720, 576, 25.0, 0
Attributes2="Upper First", 1.0925925925, "Undefined", 1

into

Key2=0, "None", 720, 576, 25.0, 0
Attributes2="Lower First", 1.0925925925, "Undefined", 1

Maybe this isn't really correct, but that change solved all the Upper Field problems for me.

Marco
Zulqar-Cheema wrote on 4/26/2004, 4:02 PM
I to can sort of confirm the capture in PAL, twice now for some reason after capturing long clips >60 minutes all areas to be well, even get confirm box with clips labeled, click OK and an error appears and no clips in folder.
Sometimes I get lost device control during capture, or clip gets cut in half, when there is no cut. works OK with short clips though.

That is the reason I moved to Scenlelyzer live fro capture

This is V4 +PAL