Two years ago that may have been the case, But now almost all new PCs come with Windows XP preinstalled and most people using this type of software have upgraded their PCs or chosen to at least upgrade their OS in the meantime. Windows 98SE is rapidly fading out and no longer has official support from Microsoft or most other large software developers. No matter who you go to if you leave SONY, chances are that company's next offering will be for 2K or even XP only.

For that matter, don't stay too attached to 2K either. Microsoft officially discontinued it last month, according to the industry rags i read. These days it's XP and 2003 that are the rage. Anything else is obsolete and unsupported.

Interesting sidelight: Dell will still build and ship a PC with Windows 2000 installed, but in order to get it you have to also purchase a license for XP and sign a waiver that relinquishes all your support from them.

If Microsoft no longer support the DOS based OS'es, why should Sony?

"Anything else is obsolete and unsupported."

Sometimes the truth hurts, doesn't it, Kelly?

J--

Hmmm. Didn't really hurt me much. I had already gone the XP route on three of the computers i use SONY media software on, and the fourth will be upgraded to XP next month as part of a planned upgrade. None of these upgrades were because of SONY's decision to stop supporting 98SE.

Kelly, sorry I wasn't too clear there. That was not directed at you. I was referring to those of us who fight against that which is inevitable, such as having to upgrade our OSs.

J--

It costs money to support older OSs. What if 98SE support would have raised the upgrade price by $50? Or $100? You might think that is ok but I would be thinking, "Why do I have to pay $100 extra so some dumb schmucks can hang on to outdated OSs?"

(No, I am not calling you a dumb schmuck, but if Sony had continued to support 98SE, thus, necessitating higher prices, then I would be calling you a schmuck. As it is, your choice to stick with 98 has no effect on me.)

Matt

The reason I brought up this thread was because if Windows98se does everything I need it to do (in terms of OS's) why would I have to upgrade? Should I upgrade because Microsoft is telling me to? Windows98se is stable and I have tweaked it in the way that I like. I runs well and performs like it should. I build my PC's and some friends. Since I own several copies of Windows 98se licensed, why would I find a need to Upgrade to WinXP. For me Windows98se can do everything that XP can for my use. We use WinXP Pro at work and I have noticed several issues that make me happy that I stayed with Windows98se. I am not harping on anyone for upgrading. Fine! If you are happy with the upgrade, great!

For me Windows98se can Burn CDR's,DVD's,etc. I apparantly have brought on a whole bunch of anger. My view was this. If SONY will no longer create software that will at least run under Windows98se, then I currenlty have the software that I continue to use. Yes, Win98 is old. So is DOS! I have older DOS programs for my DOS PC. Just because something is OLD does not mean it is obsolete. There are several web pages that describe how "older updates" to some software package are actually better than the new revison. Case in point, CD Burner BIOS's. But that is for another story. So for now, I'm sorry I brought this up. I was just dissappointed in that the SoFo programmers (Now SONY) canned Win98 users.
Thanks.

I'd say that it hurts me only because it still costs a good amount of $ to buy a full copy of 98 or 2k. When I was at office max a month ago they had Win2k full for $1 MORE then XP full (around $240).

I guess next year we'll stop seeing 2k supprt in some companies. After all, it's 5 years old this year! :)

They probley canned it because of Microsoft's lack of support. After all, you can't get new directX drivers for pre-2k anymore. :( You can always do what I did: get a copy of Win2k (or XP now) at OEM price then duel boot. I did that until I got everything working in Win2k (except for some old games which I miss).

"... why would I have to upgrade?"

If you want to continue to buy and use state-of-the-art applications, you have no choice. We're moving forward, or backward, there is no standing in this life!

J--

I am not entirely complimentary towards this release, and I am definitely affected by the decision to drop support for the old DOS-based Windows 95/98/ME versions (I will no longer be able to run a copy on my laptop which uses Windows ME). However, very few companies (including Microsoft itself) are supporting Win95/98/ME.

However, despite the fact that I am affect, I nonetheless fully understand and support the decision to only run on NT-based operating systems (W2K & XP), especially given the absolute necessity of working with greater than 4 gigabyte files when engaged in certain DVD authoring situations (e.g., if you want to create a full DVD, but only use a single MPEG file, that file must exceed 4 gigabytes).

I see everyone's point. Chienworks, I remember back in the day with SoFo, you purchased as many copies of Siren Jukebox 2.0c as you could. As far as I know you are still using this software package?? I am as well. Siren 2.0c before SONY pulled the forum for this great piece of software, did everything I wanted it to. I still use it today. Luckly I converted all the Siren forum messages into a PDF that I can use view previous posts.

Regardless of the GB limitation (there is software, including Vegas, that can break this information up into sections so you can compile the data together) I enjoy using what I have.

Progress is what companies use to sell more products. I have noticed that more and more companies are now releasing new versions instead of patches so you have to buy the package. Also, Pro version versus Standard version is a rip. For example, Norton's Ghost v5.1d allowed users to image a hard-drive over the network. Now Norton has two different versions of Ghost. You can no longer use the Network unless you buy the Pro version.

I guess there will always be pro's and con's to anything. I do not disagree that progress is good, but when the software is still written with the same code (for the most part) as VV4, why discontinue Win98 support?

I've used just about every version of Windows since 3.0 (not 3.1) and Windows NT since version 3.1/3.51. I agree that 98SE is the best of the Win9x/Me versions and still works for most people. What I tell people is to try a W2K/XP machine and you are on a different level. It is hard to describe the multitasking performance and stability that in my opinion Win9x lacks.

Back before NT 4.0 came out we had NT 3.51 (win 3.1 GUI) and Win95 just came out. The Win95 interface was very nice, but I could not give up the stability of the NT core.

When XP came out I jumped in early. It was rough in the early days and I considered going back to Win2K. Same as when I rode the fence between NT 4.0 and Win2K. Things settle down and improve.

For me WinXP with the classic interface, not the XP themes crap, is the best OS UI I've used. I use many systems at work Gnome/KDE, OSX, Win9x, etc. I'm happiest with my XP for now. I just hope Microsoft doesn't force me into the XP themes with the next Windows version come 2006/2007.

CERTEGY,

"I see everyone's point."

Really? Then don't upgrade. Better yet - don't even comment on VV5. Just move on and stay with your 7 year old OS and 7 year old software. I seem to remember you doing this very same whiney song and dance when Soundforge 7.0 came out. You think you would have got the hint with that release.

"Progress is what companies use to sell more products."

Whoa - You just figured this out?

" I have noticed that more and more companies are now releasing new versions instead of patches so you have to buy the package."

It's called "making a living". How the hell is Programmer A gonna feed the family with ongoing free updates and patches? How are Sony and all the rest supposed to keep the dev teams going by offering free patches?

To be honest - I am surprised you actually paid for your upgrade copies of 98SE...your logic suggests that you be using DOS 1.0 or 5.0 something? Like why even Windows at all?

"but when the software is still written with the same code (for the most part) as VV4, why discontinue Win98 support?"

How do you know the code is the same - or is this an assumption because it happens to load on someone's computer screen.

What exactly is the point of your post? Is it to whine? Complain? Wax on about the good ole days of 98SE? Trying to make people feel sorry that the OS train has passed you by?

Make no mistake - when the dust clears - new versions of our favorite apps and the development behind them is about business and dollars.

Please remember that NO ONE - including Sony Media is asking, insisting or caring that you buy anything at all. It's 2004 - time to get with the current program or stick with your old program.

Cuzin B

CuzinB,


You made your point and I expressed my view. I don't recall a time when using the SoFo and now SONY Forum where users were told not to express a view.

"How do you know the code is the same - or is this an assumption because it happens to load on someone's computer screen."

-My assumption that VV5 is bascially using the same code is because SONY doesn't say "complete rewrite"

An yes I did bring this up as well under the SoundForge forum because of the fact that SONY did not come out and indicate, Windows98se no longer supported. If you noticed on that forum, I did not start that thread I simply wrote in as well.

You obviously you have issues of your own. I use this forum for help, giving help and making comments.

"What exactly is the point of your post? Is it to whine? Complain? Wax on about the good ole days of 98SE? Trying to make people feel sorry that the OS train has passed you by?"

-My Point if you read the other posts, was to indicate how dissapointed I am that Windows98se users are left.

You need to check things before writing them. Better yet, how about ignoring message threads that you do not believe in!

-CERTEGY

Sorry gotta pipe in with some of my audio background and information I gained from talking to programers who have a lot of knowledge in this area. For many apps to work on Win9X they had to add what is known as a THUNK layer. All Win16 and many Win9X apps did this. Vegas use to have to do this. This was done because of the terrible performance problems with native Win32 code in Win9X. The overhead of the OS being part Win16 and part Win32 causes audio problems all over the place. If you're a Sound Forge user, you would have seen that Win9x support was abandoned in Sound Forge v7.0 for this reason also. So again, you will have to agree, Vegas is not only an NLE, it's a multi-track recorder,editor, mixing environment and getting rid of the win9x support benefits us audio users in performance and created a more stable working environment. I would hate to lose a more stable system, and suffer on audio performance because a few users are locked in on continuing to use Win98. Obviously, Sony got their priorities straight on this decision. It's time to move on, instead of putting band aids in products for legacy support, where a higher majority of the users suffer for that decision.

Regards,
Red

Cert,

Forgive me but you are simply refusing to get with the times and move past 1998. Are you expecting others to join you and back you in your crusade? Throughout this thread (and many others like it)...it's all the same - everyone is on XP - except you.

I am sorry that either you don't have the funds or the motivation or whatever it is that is holding you back from joining the latest activities around here. Sony has just launched one of the most awesome upgrades to a tool you obviously use...and are obviously passionate about - yet instead of saying "Wow...this is a real cool upgrade...maybe now is the time I should get myself some new gear and kick some creative ass" - the best you can do is pop in and declare:

"Well I guess my time using a SONY product under Windows 98se is over!"

Who cares if your time is over?

This 7 year old OS is sooooo old hat and I am glad that Sony has the foresight to stay current. Jesus - Microsoft themselves has ended life on this OS...do you really enjoy sitting around with no possibility of support if something goes haywire?

Finally - your point was that you are disappointed that your OS got left outside at the VV5 party? Only you can change that, my friend. Have a bag of fun doing whatever it is you do with Windows 98SE.