Subject:Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Posted by: benhenny

Date:3/24/2004 7:54:03 AM

Hi,

I'm trying to record Steinberg Groove Agent VSTi and can't figure it out. The documentation is very poor and almost worthless.

I've tried recording it without routing it through a midi device, and it doesn't work. I've tried assigning it to a midi device, selected that midi device, and selected Groove Agent for the midi thru. No worky.

Meanwhile, I can see it, hear it, and the master control monitors it, but when I click Record, the signal isn't monitored.

Can anyone give me suggestions? A step-by-step process would be very helpful (and should be included in the user's manual).

Thanks,

Ben

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: Waskel

Date:3/24/2004 8:49:50 AM

Quite honestly, I don't think you can with Acid. You need to be able to do one of two things: either record the audio output of a vsti or record the midi output of a vsti. I haven't found a way to do either in Acid. You can, however do it in Sonar or Cubase.
Groove Agent is one of the few VSTi's that actually have a midi output option. What I do is record the midi output in Cubase, save it to a midi file then open it in Acid. You CAN use Groove Agent as a VSTi to play back a midi file in Acid.
So you use it in this way to replay the file you recorded in Cubase, with the ability to edit it.

Hope that makes some small amount of sense.

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: benhenny

Date:3/24/2004 9:02:45 AM

I feel like I'm so close though. Groove Agent's sound is registering in the master mixer, it just doesn't come through in the recording.

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: pwppch

Date:3/24/2004 9:03:25 AM

You are trying to record the MIDI output by Groove Agent?

If so, you can't.

ACID does not "see" VSTis as MIDI input devices, only as MIDI output devices on tracks.

Peter

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: benhenny

Date:3/24/2004 9:27:40 AM

Yes, that's what I'm trying to do. That's too bad. I like the program otherwise.

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: Waskel

Date:3/24/2004 9:52:51 AM

Which one? Groove Agent or Acid?

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: piotrk

Date:3/24/2004 12:53:50 PM

Will the same apply to DR008 or FXpansion BFD? cause I'm thinking of buying a drum editor as well.

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: Waskel

Date:3/24/2004 3:57:24 PM

routing a midi file through a vst is no problem. Recording the OUTPUT of a vst, whether midi or audio, can't be done in Acid. I haven't used DR008 or BFD, but if you are just playing back midi through them they should be fine.

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: benhenny

Date:3/24/2004 4:08:04 PM

I like them both, but I meant Acid. I need a program that can run my VST instruments.

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: benhenny

Date:3/24/2004 4:12:06 PM

Which I take to mean that you can manually create a piano roll, for example, and play it back with a VST instrument, but you can't use a VST instrument, such as a drum machine, to record the midi hits in the piano roll.

Does that sound right?

Which means that a VST drum machine is useless. You might as well use a keyboard soundbank for the playback.

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: Waskel

Date:3/24/2004 4:15:17 PM

Whoa, need to back up. Ben, if you're concerned about using VST's with Acid, don't be. I use them on every project without a thought. You need to understand that Groove Agent is among a very small group of VST's that can output midi from what they generate, and Acid is not the only App that can't deal with that yet.
If you write a drum part in midi you can still take advantage of GA's great kits as a VST sound source.

Subject:GarageBand Beckons...

Reply by: benhenny

Date:3/24/2004 4:16:53 PM

Have you ever checked out GarageBand? It rocks.

I'm really considering giving up on PC recording. I don't use ProTools, which seems to be the only decent program around that isn't riddled with bugs. But I'm not going to buy Digidesign hardware just to own it.

An iMac with GarageBand is looking awfully tempting. But it really is frustrating that PC software is so far behind. You'd think they'd have caught up by now.

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: Waskel

Date:3/24/2004 4:25:10 PM

You CAN do that. You can do it in Cubase, which the Groove Agent midi output was really designed for. I think you can do it in Sonar, but I haven't tried it yet. You just can't do it in Acid, simply because Acid is not designed for that kind of audio routing. I'm not sure I would know how to record the audio output of a VST without rendering it in any app, for that matter.
This midi output is something new. How many VST's can you name which provide a midi output? This is the only one I've run into. I'm sure there will be more.
If you want something to write your midi drum tracks for you, look at Band In A Box 2004. Though not incredibly imaginative, I've created some solid drum tracks with it. You just edit what you don't like.

Subject:RE: GarageBand Beckons...

Reply by: Waskel

Date:3/24/2004 4:55:15 PM

You make it sound like PC's are still in the stone age. Why, with my PC I recorded a very nice CD all by my lonesome, with quality equal to those produced in a studio. And I didn't even use GarageBand.

GarageBand is what it is - and what it is, is NOT a professional audio application. It's a toy for the unmusical to make music.

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth

Reply by: clarksil

Date:3/24/2004 5:29:49 PM

I have professionally recorded well over 150 songs using my PC with Acid, VSTi's and Cool Edit Pro!! Not to get into a PC vs Mac debate here, but the PC is every bit as good, if not better (wealth of programs and plugins, etc.), to record with than a Mac. You certainly need the outboard stuff, but I have no problems. By the way, if you trigger Groove Agent with a keyboard, you CAN record the output into Acid as a midi track. I have done so many times!! Let me know if you have trouble with the recording of Groove Agent and I will help you when I get home (at my day gig right now).
Check out some of my stuff at:
http://augiemusic.tripod.com
or http://www.broadjam.com/augie

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth

Reply by: [r]Evolution

Date:4/5/2004 4:03:46 PM

I record with VSTi's into ACID. Haven't tried to record the VSTi Originally Posted but I use the B4, Junglist, SampleTank, Halion, and I'm sure it will work with most other VSTI's. I use a MidiMan KeyStation as a Midi Controller.

I just select my Midi Output and a SoftSynth. <--simple

Subject:RE: Recording Soft Synth - HELP

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/5/2004 11:32:18 PM

Don't you have an external MIDI keyboard or other controller? You can trigger and record your MIDI parts with this.

This part of the VSTi spec was still in beta when ACID 4 was being developed.

Last time I looked, Cubase and Nuendo are the only current tools that support recording the MIDI output from a VST, though Orion may as well (the version I have does not.)

Still, I question the usefulness of this. I can't see using a virtual synth's keyboard as a means to record your MIDI. I mean, recording a performance using a mouse? Any cheap MIDI controller will let you do 1000 times more than any GUI based interface for a softsynth.

Whether we add it to a future revision remains to be seen.

Garage Band is pretty much a clone of ACID. Be prepared to invest in some SERIOUS G5 hardware, as it is a real beast. It provides a built in DLS synth, much like ACIDs, and provides a set of sample sets for GM based sounds. It does not support any standard softsynth plugin model - i.e. VSTi or even AudioUnits - so you wont be getting your "VSTi as a MIDI keyboard" approach.

Peter