Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... -ACID Product Family

ACID Product Family

Subject:Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Posted by: jtxx000 Date:3/7/2004 3:35:28 PM Wouldn't it be nice if Acid 5 had modular effects routing?
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Iacobus Date:3/7/2004 8:12:05 PM Can you give an example, JTXX000? Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: pwppch Date:3/7/2004 8:39:36 PM What is "modular effects routing?" What apps do this currently? Peter
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: jtxx000 Date:3/8/2004 6:01:20 PM Kind of like energyXT http://www.xt-hq.com/ The main thing is the ability to combine effects in complex ways by routing them in series and parallel... and even using feedback.
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Zacchino Date:3/8/2004 9:39:59 PM I've just tryied this little program. It reminds me audiomulch ... Anyway, the only interresting thing I see in it, for Acid, is its arpegiator (with shuffle, sweet !)... But as I said I've just tried it... Didn't go deep enough to talk objectivly.
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: jtxx000 Date:3/9/2004 3:09:23 AM The way I do it now is I duplicate the track and put some effects on the origional and other effects on the duplicated track... There should be an easier way.
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: jtxx000 Date:3/15/2004 4:58:08 PM btw, jeskola buzz is modular studio... and its free ( http://www.buzzmachines.com/ )
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Bobloadmire Date:3/15/2004 7:51:50 PM What would be nice is to be able to select what input to record from, instead of using the windows mixer to select from. oh yea, and MULTITRACK RECORDING!!! THIS IS A MUST!!! P.S. has anyboady read my post on my mixer remote controll? I really need help.
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Iacobus Date:3/15/2004 8:19:14 PM You must be new Bob. :o) The "multitracking in ACID" subject has been discussed to death. I'll try to keep it short (from my point of view): -ACID is a looping tool, while Vegas is a multitracker. Together with Sound Forge, they help to complete a modular solution for digital audio (and video) production. -IF ACID had true multitracking capability, it should not interfere with its existing paradigm. To be honest, I'm not quite sure how it could be done, knowing ACID applies its timestretching ability to two out of the three available digital audio track types ACID works with. (ACID actually determines what kind of track the recording will be based upon the length of the audio recorded.) By contrast, Vegas, being a true multitracker, takes a "what you hear is what you get" approach. (I tried to answer your question in your other post.) Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: jtxx000 Date:3/16/2004 1:55:33 PM Multi track recording would be as simple as this, you record and multiple tracks go on the timeline. Vegas is a video program. Acid is for music. It makes sense that Acid should have this feature.
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Bobloadmire Date:3/16/2004 8:47:33 PM Yeah seriously, acid should have multitracking, not Vegas. Thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard! I have vegas, but i didn't know it multitracked. Why in world did they put it on Vegas and not Acid??? That's Rediculus. And acid has no abilty to be controlled by and external device, (like my digital mixer!) thats another ridiculus fact about acid. Those two thongs piss me off. Besides that acid is perfect, at least if it is true that VST Effect support will be add.
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Iacobus Date:3/17/2004 12:14:42 PM Because ACID is a loop sequencing tool? Seriously, people, read my post again. Vegas is not just for video; it's also for true audio multitracking. (You don't have to ever touch video if you don't want to in Vegas.) If most of you didn't know, ACID can also work with a video track too, mostly for the purpose of creating music beds, ambience audio, etc. Does that mean ACID should also have multiple video tracks? I mean, if we're going for multitracking... ACID merely fills in the gaps not provided by Vegas or Sound Forge; all three were meant to be modular with each other. HTH, Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: slcrz Date:3/17/2004 6:06:10 PM Hi, First I'd like to say that I've been using Acid as my main music app since version 1.0, I think it's a Great program but I'm sorry to disagree with you Iacobus it's now time for Acid to move on... version 4 is allready going that way but it's not enough... Main functions are definitly lacking in Acid (even if you work like me in COmbo with Vegas.) Direct Input Monitoring and recording (bypassing windows mixer) becomes a Must !!! as much in Acid that in Vegas Right now multitrack recording in Vegas is ok but the snapping method and grid are awfull !!! So,why not implant multitracking capabilities in Acid (ala Vegas) an make a KILLER app Since ACID doesn't even embed in vegas... One or the other would make life easier ! Cheers ! SLCRZ
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Iacobus Date:3/18/2004 12:26:48 PM Hello slcrz, I would be happy to debate if you feel up to it, being as it is nobody else feels up to the task. ;o) Let's first tackle the input monitoring feature in Vegas, which is done best via ASIO drivers. There's nothing that's done here that can already be done via hardware. Personally, I'd rather do it via hardware rather than software just so the load is taken off my system. You just have to have the right equipment (and the right drivers). How is the grid and snapping awful in Vegas to you? Why bring ACID in a direction that Vegas already takes care of? (I could attack this issue from a business standpoint, but let's attack it from a user's standpoint.) Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Bobloadmire Date:3/18/2004 7:48:27 PM BECASUE ACID IS A MUSIC PROGRAM NOT VEGAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Geraldo Date:3/19/2004 6:50:06 AM VEGAS is NOT a Music Program??? Funny!!!!!!! I'm off now!
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Spirit Date:3/19/2004 7:04:27 AM What Vegas can or can't do compared with Acid is completely irrelevant to most usrs. Maybe there's corporate logic to it all, but that means nothing to someone starting at a screen composing a track. If Sony made the programs compatible so you could open a project in either app then yes, let's talk about their musical capabilities together. But they are no more compatible than using any ther company's musical app. So saying "but Vegas does that" is, imho, a complete cop-out. ( And yes, I own both apps. )
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Ben Date:3/19/2004 10:05:40 AM I'm a long time lurker in this forum, but have rarely if at all posted here. No offence intended MD - and I know you're a great help to a lot of people here - but I'm getting a little tired of your relentless defence of Acid's current way of doing things. The app <should> be allowed to evolve to do many things it can't do now, including multitrack recording. One of the great skills Sony's software team have is to be able to add additional features without letting them get in the way - they go 'under the hood'. Just look at the video stuff in Vegas; if you use Vegas solely for audio, you don't even know the video aspect of it is there. Sony does have a great suite of software, but they simply don't integrate at all well, if at all - apart from Forge. This has to be improved upon if you're going to continue to say things like (paraphasing) "you don't need multitrack in Acid, as it's in Vegas". And to have the heritage SoFo now Sony has, and to only just to have only fairly recently started developing Acid to work with MIDI is insane! It's way too basic at the moment, and OPT was a disaster. The MIDI is Acid should be as good as anything else out there - I just don't understand the excuses any more. With Sony at the healm, in theory they now have the resources to pour enough R&D into such things to make them happen. Personally, I'd love to see Acid and Vegas brought together to make an 'uber app', stripping out Vegas' video stuff and leaving that for a video-only version. If Sony got it right, which I know they could, the combination of the two softwares in one package would be outstanding. I use the Sony media suite of software everyday professionally - I love it and I want it to be going in the right direction. The last thing I want to do is jump ship. Ok, rant over for the time-being. Ben
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: buckaroo Date:3/19/2004 10:16:24 AM Well said Ben - Agree completley - especially the MIDI - I think Soundtrack for Apple, MIDI seems ok with a editor at the bottom of the screen etc.. Lets hope...
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: plastique Date:3/19/2004 10:47:55 AM big agreement to what _Ben said. i don't want to hear any lame excuses anymore , i want facts , and these from SONY themselves and not from people who seem to freelance for them (sorry mD).
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Iacobus Date:3/19/2004 11:52:18 AM Oh, good grief...yeah, thanks for the "support". Didn't ask for it. Don't want it. Don't need it. Maybe there's a misunderstanding here. ACID is part of a triad of apps that provides a solution for multimedia development, not just for music in itself, but also other aspects as well. Going to have to disagree with you here, Rich. Saying Vegas covers the bases that ACID is not a cop out because that's the way the apps were designed in the first place. They were meant to complement each other, just as Sound Forge was meant to complement them both. Am I the only one that gets this? If ACID gets multitracking, then shouldn't it get audio editing as well? Does anyone here think that if ACID had multitracking, Vegas would be redundant? (The same applies if ACID had audio editing a la Sound Forge.) I cannot be the only one here who thinks that would be like shooting your own foot from a business standpoint. There's also the fact that some also use each app with other vendors' apps, making them flexible enough for that purpose. (e.g., Vegas and WaveLab, ACID and Cubase, ACID and SONAR, etc.) Better yet, why don't we go over to the Vegas and Sound Forge forums and suggest both Vegas and Sound Forge have ACID's features? I also cannot believe that since some of you use ACID, Sound Forge, and Vegas together, you cannot see the connection made between the three. Let me also go on the record (again) that I would not like to see an "all-in-one" app. It would be unwieldy from the get go. Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Ben Date:3/19/2004 12:30:05 PM As I've already said MD, your point just doesn't wash as Vegas and Acid don't integrate together at all. So, they don't 'complement' each other. You might as well be using Acid with Protools. You can't load one project file into another, let alone Rewire between the two. Funnily enough, I do use Sony products more for 'multimedia' work than music - most of the work is audio-post and sound design. But, I do also frequently do music and I don't want to have to keep switching between three apps (Vegas, Acid and Sonar) to do this. Of course Forge should be a seperate app. But Vegas and Acid are similar in many ways. Good business means making products people want to buy. Pure and simple. If Vegas and Acid were fused together to make an amazing app, people would buy it, I have no doubt. Vegas could continue to exist with a video-leaning. We know where you stand on this MD, and that's fine. It's just that every time someone mentions anything about changing Acid you seem to get very upset. No one's attacking you, we're just trying to debate the way in which we think Acid should be heading. I mean, if audio app developers took this conversative approach you advocate, innovative apps like Reason (and of course Acid in the first place) would never get produced. You could always just stick with version 4. Ben
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Iacobus Date:3/19/2004 2:11:47 PM Well, at least I got you to admit how you use the apps in a multimedia capacity. Vegas and ACID are similar in many ways...up until you discount the fact that ACID timestretches (for two of the three digital audio track types) and Vegas doesn't. It's confusing enough for users who come in here and have problems because ACID automatically ACIDizes their recorded tracks and makes them sound odd. (This can be remedied, of course, by having the recording turn into a One-shot instead of Beatmapped. But One-shots are 1/3 of the equation.) Well, why not include audio editing? We seem to be on a roll here for audio production with multitracking and looping, so why not go the whole mile and include it rather than editing externally? Hey, I have no problems if ACID ever includes multitracking. If that's the case, I trust Sony to do it right just as they did with MIDI. Just don't do it at the expense of what ACID was intentionally for, which is loop sequencing. I'm sorry if I have a narrow vision with wanting my apps to concentrate on a specific task. shrug What's rendering out a project to something such as a WAV so you can use it in another? The proverbial chopped liver? Is it so hard? That leads me to my next question: What if multitracking isn't in version 5.0? You would honestly jump ship just because of this issue? Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Spirit Date:3/19/2004 6:55:19 PM Personally I don't care about multi-tracking. And I agree with you about not force-feeding Acid into some horrible bloatware app - midi and VSTi are already bad enough. But what really concerns me is that a whole set of features will be "off-limits" to Acid, and development unnaturally skewed, just because they happen to exist in another Sony app. I want to be able to "live" in Acid as much as possible without having to render out or swap apps. So rather than just mindlessly transferring functionality from SF or Vegas into Acid, it'd be good if some functions were transferred if they happened to be naturally part of an expanded Acid. Seems that this debate is related to the other Big Acid Question, the two being: 1) Acid must not replicate functions that exist in Vegas or SF 2) Acid must adhere religiously to the 'loop production' paradigm Both seem to me to be completely arbitrary policies. What I really want is an uber audio app: better chopper, better recording control; better wav file management. It'll be fascinating though to see which way Sony has chosen to go: the pure audio production path, or the soft-studio-for-the-masses path. And surely we'll be seeing that soon ?
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: pwppch Date:3/19/2004 7:27:20 PM >>and OPT was a disaster How can you say this? It was far from a disater. It is a technology that will permit us to do many things that we could not do with out it. You may as well say the VSTi, ASIO, or Direct X are disasters. They are merely technologies that permit new functionality to be integrated. Yes, third parties did not adopt OPT, but only because Yamaha failed to really promote it outside of their own apps. There are some very interesting things that we are planning on doing with the OPT technologies. Not a disaster in any way, shape or form. Peter
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Zacchino Date:3/20/2004 7:35:27 AM Personnaly, No multitracking in 5, no more me in this forum -bouh :'(. But who cares ? I'm sure Sony thinks "Ok, we'll loose 4 or 5 customers, that's not like it's gonna affect us"... Well, I'm not speculating on this but we'll see... Ben said it all, and I'm sure mD knew I was going to agree on this one too ^^. But things I think NOBODY gets, is that an app can be CUSTOMIZABLE... I mean, if you don't want Acid to preview Acidized medias, why don't you SonyPCH just put a checkbox "Play Acidized / Play one shot". That's what i said in a post once "If you want Mixer Page, or Classic Acid Track Mix View, just ask the user what he wants in the preferences". And maybe if you guys have time to, and maybe the will to keep all your customers, Start a new project asking for its folder (that's a necessity), and THEN asking if the user want to create a MULTITRACK project, or a REMIX/MEDIA/LOOP BASED project, without Multitrack abilities... I donno, but solutions, there are plenny of. But the will and patience and tolerence... That's what I'm still looking for in this forum (and this include myself lol) Cheers
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: Iacobus Date:3/20/2004 8:17:06 AM Definitely agree with Richard here; I would love to see usability improvements within ACID. (I mentioned my requested improvements before, like a Chopper Pool and Event Pool.) I would think that Sony will continue the pure audio production path, just because those bases are already covered by other apps like Reason (which ACID can now ReWire to). I've actually been chewing on this thread since yesterday and something occured to me while reading Isaac's (Fadengo) latest post as well: You can use ACID like a multitracker, but with a few limitations, the obvious ones being you can record only one track at a time and the track would have to be recorded as (or changed to) a One-shot to hear the take exactly as it was recorded. (You can record multiple inputs with the right setup, but they'd be recorded onto one track.) How many of you actually want to record more than one track at a time and keep them separate? The issue is somewhat a moot point for me, since I work alone for the most part. (It's not like I have four sets of arms to play guitar.) :o) Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: Acid 5... Wouldn't it be nice... Reply by: DJ_Don Date:3/20/2004 10:31:54 AM I've been lurking for a while on this topic, and I want to jump in for a moment with my 2 cents, if I may. Acid has pretty much been THE best looping tool on the market since version 1(I got into it in version 2, but I'm sure 1 rocked). If that's all everyone ever wanted out of Acid, why would versions 2 - 4 have even been necessary? You could stick with Acid as your "looping tool" the way it was years ago and be perfectly happy. But that's not the case, because I'm sure almost all of us on this forum have upgraded to at least 3 or 4 since they initially bought Acid. I think it is COMPLETELY possible for Sony to add a TON of new, exciting, and useful tools to Acid and still keep the basic idea of dragging media files into a work area and painting it across the screen. That is why there is more than one version of Acid, and I don't know about you, but I use Acid PRO. If they want to bother calling an app "Pro", then they need to back it up with cutting-edge features that "Pro" users will want. I have no idea what Sony has in mind for 5, but I REALLY hope they consider MIDI improvements, multitrack recording (possibly, although I would still upgrade if it didn't have it), etc. I agree that Acid integrates beautifully with Sound Forge. I mean come on! You right click on a track and select open in Sound Forge, and Bam! You're there. THAT is great integration. Now if they could take that a step further and allow a whole project to be seamlessly opened in Vegas and then dropped back into Acid, you would have a winner for sure. But if not, what's so hard about opening as many tracks as you need in Acid, arming them for record, selecting your sound card's inputs, and letting you record all the tracks you need in one shot (no pun intended) WITHOUT having a seperate window open? Is that going to make Acid a confusing, overblown app with too many features for its own good? I would say no, but that's just my opinion. You can already draw envelopes on audio tracks right now for volume, pan, etc. Why not make it so you can draw MIDI CC's across MIDI tracks the same way? That would be EXTREMELY useful to me, and a great improvement in Acid's MIDI features (one of many I hope it will have). I don't use Rewire at all, but I applaud So Fo for adding it to keep those users happy. And you know what? The addition of Rewire capabilities has NEVER caused me undo grief when using Acid for my usual stuff. I don't need it, so I don't use it, plain and simple. Now, the biggest caveat to ANY upgrades in 5, is that, above all else, Acid has to be STABLE!! I can live with, or work around, most of Acid's current shortcomings, but the crashes are killing me. If a bunch of new features made it crash all the time, forget it--THAT would cause me to look again at Cubase, Sonar, etc. Bottom line? Let's trust Sony to keep an already amazing piece of software going in the right direction, and hopefully that direction will be towards an application that you won't need a whole lot of other software pieces to complete your projects with. Open Acid, go to work, render down and master in Sound Forge, and call it a hit! :o) Here's to waiting (im)patiently for 5.0! Peace.
Subject:all i want is better midi,vst effects,and more stability Reply by: ozzborn Date:3/20/2004 8:14:00 PM i use acid as a multitracker but im usally only recording 16 or so measureses at one time.when i record vocals i render the project, than i open it up in vegas and i record about 24 tracks of vocals. i usally mix them down into 2 stero files(1 lead, 1 background and chorus). i actually prefer working this way because it takes the strain off the computer.i would continue to work this way even if acid had multitrack recording. what i need is vst effects to work better with t.c. powercore and uad. as far as midi goes , i need the pianoroll editor to scroll as the project plays.and i need the the midi to be more robust.(SOMETIMES WHEN YOU PRESS RECORD IT DOES NOT SEE THE MIDI SIGNAL.) I JUST WANT 5.0 TO BE AS STABLE AS 3.0 thankyou.
Subject:RE: all i want is better midi,vst effects,and more stability Reply by: DKeenum Date:3/20/2004 8:24:18 PM I've been thinking about buying Sonar for the midi editing and audio recording. I love acid and would hat to move on. I'm not sure of what to do, but I am feeling pretty limited now. If I had better midi editing, I think I could stay with Acid and make do with the recording. We'll see. I can say this. I've found nothing with as good a work flow as acid. I can move in acid.
Subject:RE: all i want is better midi,vst effects,and more stability Reply by: MyST Date:3/20/2004 9:10:09 PM "They(Vegas and Acid) were meant to complement each other, just as Sound Forge was meant to complement them both. Am I the only one that gets this?" Nope. "Does anyone here think that if ACID had multitracking, Vegas would be redundant? (The same applies if ACID had audio editing a la Sound Forge.) I cannot be the only one here who thinks that would be like shooting your own foot from a business standpoint." You're NOT the only one. "BECASUE ACID IS A MUSIC PROGRAM NOT VEGAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Please feel free to post that over on the Vegas-Audio forum. I'd love to read the replies! M
Subject:A Few Points To Be Made Reply by: merlyn60 Date:3/22/2004 9:04:17 AM Many good points have been made in this thread and I feel that I can make a few more. I think that most of us love Acid and keep using it because the things that Acid does better than the other apps on the market are the ones that are most important to us. Having said that, I don't think it's unreasonable for us as Acid users to expect for Acid to grow (more capabilities and functions) with each release, or, as was stated in a previous post, we could have all stopped at Acid 2 or 3. It is important to realize that Acid IS growing with each release (midi and rewire in Acid 4), but at the same time, so are the needs and wants of Acid users. I think it is safe to say that Acid's midi capability, although functional for the most part, leaves alot to be desired in comparison to the vast majority of apps on the market (VST effects, midi cc envelopes, etc). With a functional midi component at least comparable to that of the competitions, I believe that most Acid users would be more than content. As far as the multitrack debate, I believe that those for and against have good points. MD made a good point when he pointed out that you can use Acid to record a track "multitrack" style with the limitation of only being able to record one track at a time (i guess thats not really multitrack style...lol). Since you can record one track at a time now in Acid, is it really that big of a stretch to ask for true multitracking for those that want it? You can also take the stance that Vegas does mulitracking already, but the problem with this is that Vegas doesn't open Acid files. If it did, the argument that the three big SonyFo apps (Soundforge, Vegas, and Acid) complement each other would be a valid one. My solution to the debate doesn't lie with adjustments to Acid. It lies with adjustments to Vegas. Give Vegas serious midi capabilities. That would make it comparable to the Logics and Cubases out there. In addition give Vegas the ability to open Acid files (with Acid files that have loops in them, Vegas could simply open them as a one shot hit each time the loop starts over). All problems solved (at least for me), but I guess this last part is a post for the Vegas forum. Merlyn
Subject:RE: A Few Points To Be Made Reply by: gjn Date:3/22/2004 1:28:09 PM bravo...
Subject:RE: A Few Points To Be Made Reply by: Iacobus Date:3/22/2004 5:52:53 PM "You can also take the stance that Vegas does mulitracking already, but the problem with this is that Vegas doesn't open Acid files. If it did, the argument that the three big SonyFo apps (Soundforge, Vegas, and Acid) complement each other would be a valid one." Rendering to WAV (or any other format that the sister app can open)? Vegas can't open ACD (ACID) files and FRG (Sound Forge) files either, just as Sound Forge can't open ACD and VEG (Vegas) files. What's the point being made? Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: A Few Points To Be Made Reply by: merlyn60 Date:3/23/2004 7:36:31 AM The point being made is that, in my opinion, Soundforge complements Vegas and Acid (being able to click "edit in sample editor", editing your sample, and the sample being update in either Vegas or Acid), but Acid and Vegas do not complement each other in the same way. Opening either a Vegas or Acid file in Soundforge is pretty useless. Soundforge is primarily a sample editing program, and therefore, the opening of an entire project file from either Vegas or Acid would be pointless (unless you wanted to edit the 2 track master out of Vegas or Acid, which would have to be rendered to a wav anyway.....like we do now). I think everyone can agree that there is no legitimate argument for Soundforge to be able to open a Vegas project or Acid project. That's probably why I haven't heard anyone ask for Soundforge to have that capability. Now, the same can not be said for Vegas and Acid to be able to open each others project files. If you could open an Acid file in Vegas and vice versa, then the multitracking of Vegas and the midi/loop capabilities of Acid would be available in a quick and easy way that wouldn't interrupt the work flow (i.e. without having to render each track to a wav, opening it up in the new program, and re-adjusting your levels). Again, in my opinion, the best way to solve all of these problems is to give Vegas full midi capabilities (since Vegas is not a slave to Acid's loop based paradigm that we hear so much about) and allowing Vegas to open Acid files (with loops being opened as a one shot hit everytime the loop starts over). That way Vegas would be on the level of Cubase and Logic, Acid would be left alone to do what Acid does best, and anyone who wanted to multitrack in an Acid project could do it effortlessly by opening the project in Vegas and taking it from there. Again, these are all just my opinions and I'm in no way, shape, or form bashing Acid or any SonyFo program. I'm a die hard SonyFo user and I'm not going anywhere any time soon, but again, I don't think its unreasonable to expect these apps and this company to keep up with the needs and wants of the users. That's why I'm waiting patiently for Acid 5.0 because I'm optimistic that SonyFo will attempt to satisfy us once again. I hope I made my point a bit clearer. Merlyn
Subject:RE: A Few Points To Be Made Reply by: pwppch Date:3/23/2004 8:13:44 AM Vegas project import into ACID would be a hack at best because of ACID's one file to track paradigm. It would be a very limited import as you would loose much in the translation. Importing an ACID project into Vegas makes far more sense. Of course Vegas would have to "understand" looping in all of its gory details so that the project would "fit" onto the Vegas time line. Vegas is not very musical right now, and would have to pick up on many things that it just doesn't do currently. We are very aware of what users want and how the distinction of loop sequencer and DAW is blurring more and more every day. Peter
Subject:RE: A Few Points To Be Made Reply by: merlyn60 Date:3/23/2004 8:53:47 AM Thanks for letting us know that you're listening and for the quick logistics of what "makes sense" and what doesn't. Merlyn

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