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Subject:I Love Acid!!!!
Posted by: UNITIS
Date:3/1/2004 10:51:57 AM

I've been using Acid for about 4 years now, and I still think it is one of the best programs on the market. There have been alot of posts here, and on other forum's "bashing" ACID, that I feel is unfounded. IMO Acid is "very stable" and allows me to do many things. (MIDI is lacking, but I have other programs for that) I think you have to take ACID (Excuse the pun) for what it is, and not expect the world.

"Products that claim to do everything are usually good for nothing"

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: MattX
Date:3/1/2004 2:27:29 PM

Step it up Acidheads...with the backing from Sony...they should be able to make this program an absolute beast!!!!


Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:3/1/2004 5:21:26 PM

Won't hear any complaints from me. ;o)

It's probably worth noting that any app is subject to abuse from those feeling disgruntled, especially on an offical forum, which can become a moaning magnet. Cakewalk's SONAR, from what I've heard, goes through these same motions, for example.

I do try to help those in trouble, but I can only help those who want to be helped, not those who choose to come here just to vent.

I'm not quite sure what such a user would hope to achieve, since this is mainly a peer-to-peer forum. Sony doesn't have to respond here if they don't want to but they do anyway.

RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: Grazie
Date:3/1/2004 10:41:54 PM

1 - I bought Acid on one day.

2 - Loaded Acid & created a piece from loops that night.

3 - Took a Vegas piece using the Acid Bed to a client the following day.

4 - Got the job!

Mostly, mostly 'cos she liked the music .. I was a bit Jean Michel Jarre .. .set to some fireworks displays NLE-ed in Vegas in Slo-Mo .. looked the biz! Well, enough to get the job . .HAHA ! ;-)

Acid? The best thing BEFORE sliced bread! ! ! !


Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: MacMoney
Date:3/2/2004 5:40:59 AM

Very well put MD
Acid 4.0 is my number 1 software I turn to!

George Ware

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:3/2/2004 6:21:52 AM

Acid is my number one app. It's just so easy to work with, and it sounds great.

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: Jessariah
Date:3/2/2004 8:45:34 PM

I'm with UNITIS. There's no love for me on this, I know, but I'd scrap recording and MIDI and just focus on keeping it the best looping app in the world.

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:3/2/2004 8:49:32 PM

Well, I wouldn't scrap recording per se in relation to loop creation. (It's always been there anyway.) But I do agree with you in making ACID a better looping tool.

RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: Zacchino
Date:3/3/2004 1:20:37 AM

What do you guys mean by "making Acid a better looping tool" ?
I'm just wondering how better Acid can be in "looping".

I just see an evolution, for the looping tool part, in acid being able to easily spread cuts of a sample (like Recycle) on a midi keyboard (like Dr. Rex), with the ability to reverse, pitch, fine, and *maybe* timestretch/pitchshift these cuts (like acid itself but for the cuts).

What do you guys think about it ? I mean, what were your ideas ?

But i still would like to see vegas' multitrack recording skills in it, and whatever goes with it (metronome with count-in, optionnal mixer page, etc...).

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:3/3/2004 7:58:22 AM

And I'd like to see midi and recording developed even if it isn't a multi-track recorder. But... I love it now, and could be happy with just developments on what it already does.

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: bgc
Date:3/3/2004 10:09:55 AM

Word. Acid is absolutely amazing.
It makes the sounds in my head come out of my speakers :)

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:3/3/2004 1:32:40 PM

Generally, my wishes are usability-related, more akin to loop management/manipulation:

Something like a "Chopper Pool," where I could assemble a rearrangement of an existing loop before inserting it onto the timeline. (Maybe even render it as a whole event in the process before it gets inserted on the timeline.)

Also something like Vegas' Media Pool but done with events rather than entire files. (More like an "Event Pool.") As it is, I take whole sections of a project and drag them off to the far right for use later. Would be easier if I could just drag them into a pool-type tool instead.

Of course, an even better timestretching and key stretching engine would be nice too. (Not sure if it could actually get better.)

RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: BarryBond
Date:3/3/2004 2:11:40 PM

I'm just curious, not bashing or anything, but how do you hear sounds in your head and then get them into Acid. I guess if you know all of your loops and what they sound like you can say "Hey, this loop would sound good with this loop". Are you using the soft synths and creating the sounds you hear? Just wondering?

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: bgc
Date:3/3/2004 3:40:50 PM

Yes to all.
I spend a lot of time becoming very familar with my loops, loop libraries and samples and then chop/paste/edit/transform/manipulate them to go towards a sound I'm looking for.

I also create a lot of custom loops by recording keys, synths, bass, guitars, ambient sounds, godknowswhat, and vocals. Again I chop/paster/edit/transform and manipulate them towards what I'm imagining.

I do similar things with one-shots and beatmapped tracks that I record.

I really think of Acid as an instrument which allows me to manipulate sounds in creative but controllable ways. It's similar to a regular instrument, like a guitar. If I know what a guitar can do, and I have a sound in my head that I know the guitar can help me create, I manipulate the guitar and it's sound to get to that sound, or at least as close as I can.

Then throw in some spontaneity and playing around (which Acid is also great at) and you can really do magic. Acid is also only a launch pad for me. I use it to create a foundation and then use Vegas to record those musical elements that aren't best suited to creation in a loop based environment (vocals, overdubs, mixing, etc, etc.)

Hopefully this clarifies it a bit.

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: warrenbfet
Date:3/3/2004 5:20:23 PM

To the poster who stated...

"with the backing from Sony...they should be able to make this program an absolute beast!!!!"

Yes, the large multinational Sony will and has already made this into the absolute beast....that is in Spyware...

Sorry guys but theres some questionable code in there and wasn't there before. I'm not the smartest developer out there, and never will be, but I know some of the tricks...

and tricks I see.
It's simply in the code. My pal who owns the Sony version let me sit at his workstation and explore its differences that the SF versions.

Look. I love Acid just like all you guys...frankly can't live without it and it is an amazing product. But Sony, I believe, is up to something not so good here. Their interest in Acid is very curious indeed because while they may have saved the product for the short term from going into oblivion, I see little in the way of R&D to make it a better product. Now if they have the Sonic Foundry developers on board now then I am a bit more comfortable. But those guys were the geniuses behind Acid. Sony neither has the developer talent nor the smarts, I'm afraid, to delve into the world of Software development. But, like I said, if the SF guys are now Sony employees, we may still have a chance, although their hands (the coders) will be somewhat more tied with the incredible amount of red tape at Sony because of the simple fact that were dealing with a HUGE corp. here....a bit larger to say the least, than Sonic Foundry.

So then if what is Sony's REAL interest in this product. Is it copyright stuff? Were talking loops and samples here. The Music Bus is tightening the grip everywhere and Sony is the captain of that team. If someone has insight or can prove me wrong in my beliefs about this, by all means please post it.

Meanwhile I will continue to use Acid because it rules....I'm just not going to ever buy Sony's version (which is the same thing in a nice shiny Sony box with Big Brother's code)

Sorry Sony, but I have no trust in your intent, and no confidence in your follow-through.


Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: ATP
Date:3/3/2004 11:40:18 PM

you're maruuk's little brother, right? if not, you could have been.

first you say something about fishy code (probably just to get our attention) but then you derail and spew nothing but unfounded opinions on Sony's business strategy. why don't you put your money where your mouth is and post the "questionable" code you're speaking of, so you might convince us better. if you can't do that, then plz stfu and stfd. we don't need another troll, we already have one thanks very much.

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: David_Kuznicki
Date:3/4/2004 5:23:20 AM

Here's an idea for you-- if it's so damn 'fishy,' then don't hook it up to the internet. It's not the brightest idea for you to have your DAW on-line anyway...


Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: BarryBond
Date:3/4/2004 6:06:25 AM

Cool man! I have some friends who use Acid and they're always like "Dude, I just wrote the coolest track! This is a hit!" So I go and check it out and it's like 3 loops just looped the whole way through while they're rapping. I'm like "You're kidding right." Some people just don't get it. I think Acid is a great tool to help get your ideas down, but I think it is very important to create your own loops and samples and if you need to, you can incorporate ones that you didn't create to help the track out. It just puts the music on a more personal level for me.

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: bgc
Date:3/4/2004 10:24:18 AM

hi barry,
it might be a bit of a stretch, but sometimes I think of Acid like a synth and the loop libraries as presets. There definitely are some amazing "preset" sounds and you can do fantastic things with them but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't boost the creativity and artistic input by messing around with them in new and unusual ways. or creating your own from scratch. :)

also, don't be too harsh on people who use 3 loops and rap over it if it's truly a cool song. the measure of music shouldn't be how hard you work on it, but how much it moves the listener :)


Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: BarryBond
Date:3/4/2004 11:03:34 AM

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about using loops. I totally agree with you on processing loops and making them something totally different. That's what creativity and artistic expression is all about. I just feel that if someone knows nothing about music, but can loop 3 standard loops and not do anything creative, then they are nowhere. What did they learn? How will their music be better?

I'm not harsh on the "loopers" out there, I'm just saying that if you're not constantly trying to better yourself, to learn something new, to progress yourself, then what are you doing?

"the measure of music shouldn't be how hard you work on it, but how much it moves the listener"

I have to disagree with some of this, at least from what I have seen with inexperienced musicians. While "yes" it does move the listener, mainly the person writing it, if they spend 2 minutes drawing out a few loops what kind of thought, heart, sincerity, and emotion did they put into it? If they're looking for a backbeat to rap to just for themselves and their friends, that's great. I have no problem with that at all. But when you go around calling yourself a producer because of that, I'm not with that.

The point I guess I'm trying to make is that good music can be made anywhere, with anything, on any program. Just spend some time actually thinking about what you are doing and try to constantly learn new techniques.

Do stuff that no one has done before: Patch the output back into the input and get a huge feedback loop. Run it though a filter with some LFOs and then filter it again. Run it through a stomp box. Cut it up and rearrange it. Run it through a vocoder and then distort it. Filter it again. Whoever thought a feedback loop would sound so nice?


Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: bgc
Date:3/4/2004 1:12:01 PM

hey barry,
we're on the same page - and it is fun to talk about the nature of music and creativity as the tools get more powerful and somewhat easier to use allowing people with less experience to make some truly compelling music. :)
is it good/bad? don't know.

I totally agree when you say: "when you go around calling yourself a producer because of that, I'm not with that." Throwing up 3 loops and laying down a great rap, even is they are really amazing doesn't make you a producer, but if you do it originally and you make a great track, could you argue that the person was being creative and artistic even though it wasn't that hard?

Your point about producers reminded me of a rant that Steve Albini had about what makes a producer. I found a link to it here:
it's fun reading, enjoy!


Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: BarryBond
Date:3/4/2004 2:41:06 PM

Haha! Nice!

"This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.
Record company: $710,000
Producer: $90,000
Manager: $51,000
Studio: $52,500
Previous label: $50,000
Agent: $7,500
Lawyer: $12,000

Band member net income each: $4,031.25"

The look on their face as soon as they realized everyone shit on them: priceless

That's why I'm all about the underground. I'm actually really excited that sites that promote selling artists' tracks are now becoming popular. I love the newly formed EDM DIgital They have some great tracks for DJs. Some of these people I have never heard of and never would have had the chance to buy their music. As far as the EDM scene goes, labels are pretty nice about how they do business, but I'd still prefer to sell everything and press records myself. Anyways, this has gone completely of topic.

Have a nice day!


Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: DJ_Don
Date:3/4/2004 4:51:46 PM

Even though I've been grousing a bit lately around here about the crashes I've been experiencing in 4.0 and the glacier speed it seems like Sony is moving at to get 5.0 released, at the end of the day there is NO BETTER software than Acid for creating tracks / remixes / megamixes / etc. IMHO. I can't help but smile when I discover a new trick in Acid that I never thought of before. Even though it is the best software for bringing out what I'm hearing in my head, I've also had so many amazing "accidents" with Acid that have led to some extremely interesting stuff. You've gotta love "Sonic Sony" :o) for what they've made and hopefully will continue to make.


Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: jtxx000
Date:3/15/2004 5:32:38 PM

I'd like to see more tools like chopper... I think it'd be nice to have like an arp kind of thing where you turn beats off and on and it chops up a clip accordingly.

Subject:RE: I Love Acid!!!!
Reply by: stuffedspacedog
Date:3/15/2004 10:03:40 PM

I see the same debate here about talent vs technology that raged in the early 1980s. Kraftwerk, the Human League and others were accused of making soulless music "made by machines" - the argument was that they weren't really talented because they didn't really play.

The answer is that machines don't make music (not yet), people do. You'll get good and bad music regardless of the technology used.

The argument about using loops is an interesting one. I see loops as an evolution of music creation. It's no different to hitting a note on a piano, it's just sound that is more highly organised, and it's all about what you do with it, not where it came from.

I believe we are really artisans, not artists, and we make music by working our bodies and minds, not through flashes of divine inspiration. We operate in a human culture which is constantly recycling itself into new forms (and probably forgetting more than it learns) - we are part of that process. This notion of the uniqueness of art (and artistic genius) is a Western one that developed during the Renaissance, and has now passed it’s sell by date.

To ask that people create their own loops or disguise the loops created by others is a bit like asking the Beatles to build their own guitars before their music can be seen as valid.

Having spent many years working analogue with 16 track tape, I am completely relieved to have someone else spend time miking up a guitar and recording it instead of me - isn't that the point? Isn’t that what makes us free?

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