Subject:SF 6.0 doesn't playback in 24 bit

Posted by: rjt

Date:2/28/2004 12:16:24 AM

I just upgraded my system with a bigger C drive and went from Win 2000 to Win XP. After reinstalling everything, I noticed that when I went to play files in SF 6.0 there was silence for about 2 seconds, then a pop, then my digial mixer said "Wrong Word Clock Source" for about 6 more seconds, then all was well. The sound looped fine after that. The "Wrong word clock" sign disappeared. When I stopped the clip and restarted. Same thing, silence, pop, message.

I messed around with just about every option in the Wav tab of Preferences and what fixed it was unchecking the "try to open 24 bit" box. Here is what I don't understand (well okay, there is lots I don't understand, so here's the question). The wav file is 24 bit, my soundcard takes 24 bit and my other programs, CEP2.1, Sonar 3.1.1 and Acid 4.0, all work fine, even though they open the sounds in 24 bit and play them back. Sooo:

1) Even though the playback is 16 bit, the wav will still be edited at a higher bit depth in SF.... correct?

2) What the heck is happening, why SF 6.0 and not Sonar or CEP which can't handle the 24 bit?

My system, P4 with 1 gig ram, several hard drives, Frontier Designs Dakota Tango soundcard with latest drivers, the soundcard runs into a Yamaha AW 4416 which is set to record and playback in 24 bit. I use the internal source on the soundcard for my Wordclock and send that to the Yamaha via ADAT (again, with Sonar, CEP or Acid, I do not get any Wrong Wordclock messages)

Thanks in advance

Take Care

Subject:RE: SF 6.0 doesn't playback in 24 bit

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:2/28/2004 3:36:37 PM

What wordclock setting do you have the mixer set too? Also, you say the Yamaha mixer is 24 bit, that might just be for the internal processing. You might have to tell it somewhere in a menu item of what bit depth is coming into the digital input. Most digital inputs let you select different word lengths to be able to handle 12bit, 16bit, 20bit, or 24bit. It might be that the digital input is set to 16bit on the mixer, when you are sending 24bit.

Also, you say the sound card has ADAT digital format. This is also referred too as TOSLINK. I'm not quite sure how that works with sound forge, since Sound Forge is a stereo editor and handles 2 channels of information and Toslink handles 8 channels. The ADAT lightpipe format is different than typical 2 channel optical. You might want to read the Frontier Designs manual and see if there's an option to change the lightpipe jack between ADAT format and Optical Spdif. You may need to change everything to optical spdif, to get it to work properly.

One thing you could do to help narrow down your problem is too disconnect the ADAT lightpipe, set the wordclock on the sound card to "internal" and connect the Analog outputs to the mixer Analog Inputs. (make sure mixer wordclock is set to internal). If this works, without the problems, then this should tell you there's some kind of conflict with the digital connection between the sound card and the mixer and be able to elliminate Sound Forge as the problem. If you still have this problem, then there could be a problem with the way Sound Forge interacts with the Sound Cards driver.

Subject:RE: SF 6.0 doesn't playback in 24 bit

Reply by: rjt

Date:3/3/2004 8:03:11 PM

Thanks for your reply....

The wordclock on the song is set to record 24 bit (the AW4416 will sync to whatever you want it to via ADAT or Wordclock, this reply regards setting it for 24 bit). Additionally, all tracks are set to record 24 bit. It is probably not the case that the mixer is not ready for 24 bit as Sonar, Cool Edit Pro, Acid and Vegas all play in 24 bit without problem.... only Sound Forge 6.0 has a problem playing in 24 bit. Also, when the word clock source is wrong, the warning "wrong word clock source" flashes continuously.... for example, if I select a "dead input" as the sync source, or I reboot the computer, the warning flashes until the sync source is changed or the computer is rebooted. When I start SoundForge, the "wrong wordclock source" only flashes about 6-8 seconds and goes away. It wouldn't do that if it was a wordclock problem.

TOSLINK and ADAT are not quite the same thing, although they are close. They both send multiple tracks of digital audio via lightpipes. TOSLINK is a proprietary format, I foret right now if it is Toshiba or Tascam (Toshiba I think), while ADAT is proprietary, but more widely used format for Alesis (originally developed for the first Alesis ADAT recorders way back when). There is no option in the Frontier Design panel to either set to 24 bit or to choose ADAT or SPDIF. ADAT will send what-ever bit signal the software sends (at least if it is 16 or 24) and you change the SPID to consumer or pro levels via the Frontier Design Panel. The option you can control is sample rate..... in this case 44.1 or 48.

I don't think the problem is a function of SF being a 2 track system. In the preferences/wave box it shows me all of my ADAT channel pairs A1/2, A3/4, A5/6 etc. When I switch from A1/2 it plays on the proper channel on the AW and when I switch it to A3/4 it moves over to the next stereo pair, so it seems to be seeing the various stereo pairs okay.

Unfortunately, I believe you are correct regarding the issue between SF and the drivers/soundcard. The fact the other programs (including Acid and Vegas from SF/Sony) work in 24 lead me to conclude it is this interaction. Also, since SF works in 16 bit, it is not that SF isn't sending. Finally, SF does send in 24 bit.... and it works.... it is the pop/silence/warning for a total of about 8 seconds every time the wav file is started that is the problem. Also, there is an error indicator (that can be reset) on the Frontier Design panel. When I start SF in 24 bit, I get an error... if I wait my 8 seconds and reset it, it shows no error the rest of the time the wav plays. Therefore, the problem lies in the interface between the soundcard and SoundForge.

Thanks for your time and effort in your response.

Take Care