Subject:Newbie questions regarding sampling

Posted by: kevgl

Date:1/3/2004 12:08:30 AM

Hi folks

I've spent two pretty full days getting the hang of Acid (well attempting anyway).

I couldn't find that many tutorials around and am still not 100% sure whether I am going to be able to make anything myself that is good enough to use on the doco I am editing.

I've noticed that almost all tracks I've heard made by Acid tend to have a techno feel to them (not surprising really) but the sound I am looking for for this doco has to have more of a traditional feel to it (it's about a motorcycle rally over 10 days).

I play bass and guitar and have two electric basses, an electric 6 string, an acoustic 6 string and an acoustic 12 string. All have pickups in them and I have a Behringer mixer that feeds into my PCs so recording stuff isn't an issue. I don't have easy access to a guitar amp (Bass amp yes, but they don't colour the sound like a guitar amp does) so I can't mike a guitar amp, but I do have a Korg Pandora which should give some good sounds to the electric guitar (if only I can find where the bloody thing is after moving house 6 months ago :-)

Problem is I have never tried to write stuff before, just play covers. I've never recorded any of my stuff, preferring to play through nasty big amps than a PC and desk :-)

Soooo - any suggestions on how to keep time (I don't even have a metronome here). I'm recording tracks through goldwave - is there an electronic metronome I can use to keep my time tight so it fits the loop times? Is there something I can use to play tracks I have recorded off the PC while I am recording to the application?

I have Vegas 4.0 and a demo version of Acid 4.0 Pro. Sound packages only go to Goldwave and a limited old edition of Sound Forge. I don't have a big budget at the moment (I'm trying to work out whether I can make anything constructive or whether to pay for royalty music for the doco).

If I record me playing a mainstream tune, then use that in the doco, how does that affect copyright? (I'm in Australia btw).

I've noticed also that when I make a key change in the timeline I can't define whether the pitch shift goes up or down - is there a way to control that?

Anyway - they are a few questions (I'm trying to solve what I can before I ask) but you can see where I am heading and any tips from people who have been there before are most welcome.

Cheers

Subject:RE: Newbie questions regarding sampling

Reply by: xxFT13xx

Date:1/3/2004 12:13:55 AM

Acid does have a metronome..but its turned off by default.

You could also use a simple 4 beat kick drum looped over for like 4 mins and just play your stuff in time with that...adjusting the BPM to suite your needs.

As far as pitchshifting, double click on the file itself in the time line and you can turn it up or down.

Hope this helps

-Sin

Subject:RE: Newbie questions regarding sampling

Reply by: Gordian

Date:1/3/2004 3:12:36 AM

Why don't you record straight into Acid? Throw a drumloop in, adjust BPM, hit record, set input of soundcard and play. BTW what's a doco?
Cheers,
Gordian

Subject:RE: Newbie questions regarding sampling

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:1/3/2004 12:31:34 PM

A documentary?

Adding to what Sin and Gordian have said, you don't have to mic a guitar cabinet; with the right setup, you can go right from the device to your PC's audio interface.

For example, I have my DigiTech GNX2 guitar effects processor's S/PDIF out going into my M-Audio Audiophile's S/PDIF in, which allows me to record my own material (and listen to it) while monitoring playback of the rest of the project within ACID.

As far as a "mainstream tune", did you mean a song by a popular artist, like a cover tune? I'm not familiar with copyright law outside of the U.S., but I'd gather you might want to be careful. Even if you were to record all the parts by yourself, you could get in some hot water, especially if you intend to make any money off this endeavor.

HTH,
Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page

Subject:RE: Newbie questions regarding sampling

Reply by: kevgl

Date:1/3/2004 3:26:43 PM

Yeah - sorry, doco = documentary.

I had a feeling that might be the case regarding copyright.

As for miking the cabinet I was thinking of getting a nice distortion sound from my Marshall, but as that doesn't happen until a fair amount of dBAs are happening, it isn't going to happen at home :-) The Pandora should to to add a bit of grunge to the sound (if I can find it).

When I select Record, I get an error saying incorrect media type. Recording hardware shows as Microsoft Sound Mapper - there's nothing in the pulldown for selecting the SoundBlaster that is in the PC.

So I gather from what you guys are saying, that I can record into Acid while it is playing a beat track?

Cheers

Subject:RE: Newbie questions regarding sampling

Reply by: androgyne

Date:1/3/2004 3:51:53 PM

Two questions/Comments......xxFT13xx said "Acid does have a metronome..but its turned off by default." Big News - where is it?
Also, regarding using a drum loop as the metronome, have done as you suggested, dropped a drum loop in as a metronome and recorded audio straight in to Acid and I keep getting the drum loop in the background of the audio I am recording. If there is a metronome in Acid that will not be picked up by the live recording session and runs in the background PLEASE do tell.
Thx
Flo

Subject:RE: Newbie questions regarding sampling

Reply by: mortalengines

Date:1/3/2004 11:52:36 PM

the fact that you're getting bleed is a soundcard mixer issue- go into your soundcard's mixer, make sure that you are recording ONLY the desired input - NOT "what u hear" - that happened to me & it took me a while to figure out why I was recording what was being monitored in addition to my new track-
- Here's another way of establishing tempo for your song- when recording your guitar- try playing a few bars without your drum loop into acid- when in the recording dialog window make sure that "make track fit project tempo" is not checked - play back your track & then start finding drum loops that will fit the tempo of your track - by the way "discreet drums" , "drum sugar" & the Bill Laswell collection are great places for mid tempo rock style drumming- if you want to get some loop packages that are non techno-
-You can record guitar straight into the computer without an amp & get a pretty fair sound with just a sans amp or a distortion box - but you may want to consider using a D/I box to get a really, really good sound- there are probably some shareware cabinet simulators out there if you look hard enough (start with hitsquad.com).

- If you still feel like getting a "live" guitar sound - use a shure SM57 mic about 1" away from your amp's speaker (100 centimeters -i think, in metric) & make sure you get a proper mic pre-amp (pre sonus sells some decent "tube" mono mic pres for under 100 US dollars) before going into your computer) - I have heard that recording with smaller amps is a much easier & preferred route, as you will have to turn ANY amp up extremely loud to get that nice, hot, overdriven guitar sound that really makes for a "big" sounding recording- Large amps need to be louder, still, in orderl to get the same effect - this is hard on your ears, the neighbors ears & (I have read) your mics & outboard gear as well.

Subject:RE: Newbie questions regarding sampling

Reply by: kevgl

Date:1/5/2004 4:43:45 PM

Thanks Mortal

Yeah - the Pandora will do the job fine if I can locate it, it has some nice cabinet settings in it. I lent it to a mate a while back, but I'm sure he returned it. I have no intention of miking the amp, I now live in the city in a villa unit with close neighbours and I don't think they'd appreciate a 100W Marshall with quad box at full noise :-)

Will do some more expermenting. Looks likke technically I can do what I need, it's now up to whether I can write/create something that doesn't sound like shit (never tried writing before, just play other people's stuff, boring eh? :-)

Cheers

Subject:RE: METRONOME??

Reply by: Waskel

Date:1/6/2004 7:37:08 AM

Hey, Sinister, where is this metronome you speak of?

Subject:RE: METRONOME??

Reply by: ATP

Date:1/6/2004 9:32:45 AM

there is no sp... metronome :)

also, to pitch shift an event you don't need to double click it. merely clicking it once so that it is selected will enable you to pitch the event using the + and - keys on your keyboard.

Subject:RE: METRONOME??

Reply by: Waskel

Date:1/6/2004 9:52:08 AM

Yah, I didn't think so... I was responding to sinisters post. Though you have to admit, it's a more than a little odd that an app so oriented around time and beat doesn't offer one...

Subject:RE: METRONOME??

Reply by: ATP

Date:1/6/2004 10:18:55 AM

the second part of my post was aimed at Sin's posting as well.

as for the metronome, i can see why it's not included. ACID is geared towards loops, not Midi. it's geared towards using existing pieces of music (usually already having a certain rhythm or vibe), it's not geared towards creating your own themes using real or virtual instruments. so in this regard a metronome is not really a much needed function. well, in my opinion, at least. :)

besides, it's not that hard to make your own metronome by using a kick or hihat sample. and if you don't have any such samples and you just use Midi, then i don't think ACID isn't the right program for you to begin with.

Subject:RE: METRONOME??

Reply by: Waskel

Date:1/6/2004 10:28:18 AM

Actually, I mostly record with live acoustic instruments, with loops for drums and midi for pads. I just happen to think it would be nice to have a metronome to lay down my first lead track (which I then build on or over) rather than using loops. Still, it's true, loops are easy and there's no reason not to do it that way either.