Subject:Root Note Enigma

Posted by: BayOfPigs

Date:12/7/2003 11:02:06 PM

I have a sample -- a WAV of an A-note.

As a 1-Shot, it plays as an A.

In BEATMAP, project key of A ("preserve pitch" is checked), a "ROOT NOTE" of A gets Acid to play me back an A. BUT when I put in a root note of A#, it plays Ab. The root note of B gets Acid to play a G. I change root note to C, and I get a Gb.

In other words, it moves backwards from the way it should.

In Project Key:NONE, it plays an A note, and under "Don't Transpose" it plays an A.

I'm not getting something here. In order to play a C (project key: G), I have to set the sample for a ROOT NOTE of E.

This is confusing as hell. Shouldn't I change the root note to C to get it to play a C?

Subject:RE: Root Note Enigma

Reply by: vanblah

Date:12/8/2003 8:33:23 AM

I'm guessing here, because I don't have a copy of Acid on this machine.

You are telling the program that the ROOT note of your sample was BASED on A. In this case your root note equals the sampled note; but this is not always true though. When you changed the root note data from A to A# you are telling Acid that you want the pitch to be a half step LOWER than the project key. The sample is an A, but you are saying that it is based on A#.

When you change the project key, ACID resamples the note to the project key based on it's root note settings. So an A becomes a C, in order to get it to play a fifth above the project key you'll have to change it's root note to a fifth above it's actual note.

Acid uses the root note in relation to the project key to determine what pitch to play for a given sampled note.

The easiest way to do this, is to leave the root note data alone and just transpose within the track.

Doug

Subject:RE: Root Note Enigma

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:12/8/2003 8:52:03 AM

I'm also not quite sure what you're asking, but try the transpose. Right click on the track and you'll find it.

Subject:RE: Root Note Enigma

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:12/8/2003 11:47:55 AM

As vanblah noted, your sample may be ACIDized with A as its root note, but that's before ACID takes the overall project key into account and key stretches the sample to match the overall project key.

So if your project key is G so also will your track be G. To get it to C the easiest way is to move it 5 semitones above or 7 semitones below at the event level (click on an event and press + or - on your keyboard's numpad) or click a track in the track listing and do the same with the numpad.

HTH,
Iacobus
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RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page

Subject:RE: Root Note Enigma

Reply by: BayOfPigs

Date:12/9/2003 3:55:33 PM

I understand this -- I THINK...

mD, could you please be more explicit about moving semitones around in an event level (you said click on an "event" but I don't know what an event is), or could you point me to how to find this on Acid's help menu.

### -- In order to get an A sample to play as a C (per my other post), I changed to root note to E. I hope using your suggestion I can keep the root as "A", since it gets too confusing otherwise.

Will Root Note ususally always tell me the accurate note/key when I play the sample as a 1-shot or in a project with "no key"?

I notice that some of my samples have no RNs (they're listed as "don't transpose). Can I use Acid to assign roots, or do I need another program?

Thnaks

Subject:RE: Root Note Enigma

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:12/10/2003 12:30:03 PM

Sure.

An event is a single instance or sample of a track that plays back right on the timeline. The event can be the entire track's contents or just a portion.


### -- Since you changed the root note of the sample to E and you're in the overall project key of G, ACID is simply transposing the sample accordlingly.

As far as ACID's concerned, the sample has a root note of E and is transposing it to G (to match the overall project key). That's 3 semitones above (and also 9 semitones below but for now let's focus on 3 semitones above).

Since the sample is actually A (to your ear) and you want to hear it as C, you must move the sample 3 semitones above. See the correlation?

A : E
A# : F
B : F#
C : G

Remember: ACID will take a look at the sample's assigned root note and then stretch it to match the overall project key. ACID takes the overall project key into account last.

Also, ACID has no way of knowing the true pitch of a sample; it only does what you tell it to do in this regard.

You should definitely have some success per what I and vanblah suggested. If you set the root note of your sample to A, ACID will stretch it overall to G. From there, it's just a matter of moving it by semitones to C (5 above or 7 below), either at the event level or the track level.

For your second question: In a project with no overall project key assigned, ACID will playback the sample at its assigned root note. So a Loop with a root note of A will playback alongside a Loop with a root note of B, but since they'll playback in their native keys, the resulting sound will be discordant. If you were to set the overall project to, say, D, ACID will stretch both A and B samples to D.

One-shots always playback at face value no matter what the project key is; no stretching is done to the sample. As a result, you have no way of knowing what the actual pitch of the sample is, unless you have a trained ear or have something like Sound Forge (its Spectrum Analysis tool helps you determine the pitch of a sample).

Third question: You can assign root notes in ACID itself. You may also use Sound Forge, which has ACIDization tools as well.

Note that for samples that don't have root notes assigned to them, that may be because there is no definite pitch to begin with. Futzing around with such samples may change their timbre, but not their pitch. (Percussive sounds come to mind.)

HTH,
Iacobus
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RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page

Subject:very very cool

Reply by: BayOfPigs

Date:12/10/2003 12:41:35 PM

Thanks, this is great.

One thing: I notice that sometimes when I press the + or - sign, the change is reflected accurately in track properties as a pitch change, and sometimes not.

I assume this is some setting parculiarity based on whether I am loop, beatmap with "preserve pitch" checked, etc. But I was curious if you know why this is so.

1-Shot doesn't know what root note I'm using, so it assigns a change as a percentage, but why will a 2 semitone plus change be reflected accurately in some instances and not others?

Subject:RE: very very cool

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:12/11/2003 1:17:49 PM

Typically, One-shots aren't ACIDized like Loops and Beatmapped tracks are; One-shots have no assigned pitch or key and usually don't have a definite pitch. (Examples are kick drum and snare drum hits.)

Actually, when you change pitch of such a track, it should be reflected both in how many semitones (if it has a pitch) and what percentage of the original the shifted track will be.

Iacobus
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RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page

Subject:RE: Speaking of root notes

Reply by: SckidMarq

Date:12/12/2003 9:38:13 AM

What's the best way to find out a samples root note? A sample that hasn't been Acidized.

Subject:RE: Speaking of root notes

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:12/12/2003 12:17:51 PM

A very good question.

There are a few ways. One is to have a good ear.

If you're not gifted (or cursed, depending on how you look at it) with perfect pitch, you can also match the sample alongside another that you definitely know the pitch of. This can be tedious, however, as you must add samples that pretty much coincide with the chromatic scale—a total of twelve semitones—and play each of them back to see if they match the un-ACIDized sample.

A similar approach is if you play an instrument such as a guitar or piano, you can play single notes to see if they match.

Sound Forge also has the Spectrum Analysis tool, which will evaluate a sample for you and give the sample's most prominent frequency (if the sample contains several and you don't make a specific selection on the sample).

HTH,
Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page