Subject:question about rendering

Posted by: tibby

Date:11/21/2003 10:31:30 PM

If I select a track section to render to WAV, does any "PROPERTIES" info get send into the WAV file?

I want a bit of sound to play back (as a WAV sample) just like I hear it in ACID -- do I simply render, or first set to NO KEY to make sure it isn't changed?

My confusion: my ACID-rendered WAVs have all been playing back fine as audio files (in win media player, etc), but some are at the wrong speed when I preview them in EXPLORER.

If I bring the WAV into my project and change it to ONE-SHOT, the sample plays fine. Wha'ts weird is that some sounds preview perfectly and some all at the wrong speed and pitch.

Subject:RE: question about rendering

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:11/22/2003 11:46:12 AM

Yes—the copyright info is immediately visible in the track properties. If you were to open the WAV in something like Sound Forge, you'd see the "engineer" and "title" info as well.

If you want to hear it as it exactly sounds in ACID when you playback, just render and don't change anything. You'd only set the overall project key to "none" for those loops that do not have a definite pitch, like drums.

The Explorer in ACID takes its cue from the overall project tempo set in ACID itself. Note the WAV's original tempo and match accordingly. (You can find out what the original tempo for the WAV is by looking at the bottom of the Explorer window when you click on a WAV.

One-shots basically playback the way they were created—in other words, what you originally heard is what you get.

For example, say you have a project that's set to 116 BPM and bring in a Loop that originally had a BPM of 120 BPM. ACID's job is to take this Loop and stretch it to fit 116 BPM.

Let's say you then change the Loop to a One-shot. Because you changed it to a One-shot, ACID will not timestretch or keystretch the track in any way, so the track would actually play the way it was originally done—for a tempo of 120 BPM.

(Note that time and tempo are related. A four beat sample that plays within two whole seconds would fit into a 120 BPM tempo.)

That could be why your samples sound strange when changed. Any extreme tempo change can produce digital artifacts.

HTH,
Iacobus
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RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page

Subject:questions for mD

Reply by: tibby

Date:11/22/2003 11:48:22 PM

Thanks so much for your help. I hope I'm not trying your patience here, but I have a few more questions:

1) From your writing, I take it WAV's have BPM/TEMPO info embedded in them. Is there any way to get them to play back in Explorer in their original tempo -- outside of me changing ACID's project BPM to match the WAV samples?
(Some of my samples are missing info like BPM or ROOT NOTE, some have inaccurate root notes.)

2) I have a bit of a track I want to render that has music on it, but I don't know its key. Is it best for me to figure it out so I can assign it an accurate ROOT NOTE? If I set it up as a one-shot, it doesn't matter right?

3) Since I can take any sample in Acid and make it loop, one-shot, etc., DOES IT MATTER WHAT IT IS WHEN I RENDER IT (to a wave)? (ie, beat-mapped, loop etc.) does the Wave store this info as well?

4) Someone here posted that burning audio CD's at slower speeds may help them play in regular consumer decks (not computers). Do you know anything about that? If I burn at 18x and can play the disc is a few of my own cheapie decks, should I still burn slower to increase the odds my friends can play it on their decks?

Thanks. This is a big help to me.

Subject:RE: questions for mD

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:11/24/2003 11:18:28 AM

Your welcome, tibby. That what I'm here for. :)

Prepare yourself. This is a long post.

1) Yes, metadata is inserted in the WAV when, say, you render to a new track in ACID or use Sound Forge's ACID Loop Creation Tools. This is also known as "ACIDization".

Unfortunately, you probably will have to change the overall project tempo in your ACID project to match the original. (The same applies for overall project key.) An option to listen to a loop in its original incarnation does sound intriguing, though.

For now, you can right-click the sample in the Explorer and choose, "Open with Player," which should open up the sample in the media player it's associated with and play it back as it sounded originally. (For example, Windows Media Player.)

Note that some media players can't play anything back higher than 16-bit, so keep that in mind.

For your samples that are not ACIDized (those without a tempo or key embedded), ACID will try its best in determining the tempo itself based upon the length of the sample, but note that ACID also bases the assumption that the sample is a four beat sample, which could really be, for example, an eight beat sample. You can remedy this by adding the track to your project and going into the track's properties to adjust the track accordingly.

Also, ACID never assigns a root note to samples that are not ACIDized. ACID just has no way of knowing what frequency (pitch) the sample is set at. Many users make the mistaken assumption that ACID can analyze in this manner, but the fact is ACID only does what you tell it to do as far as root key goes. If you tell ACID the key is C for a sample, the ACID will assume the key is C even if the sample is really in another key or pitch.

(This is a good thing, because you may have a sample that is harmonic to the key but yet want to retain the original root key for reference purposes. You may want to have something that's playing G, which can be a perfect fifth above C.)

2) If the sample has a definite pitch, it'd probably be best to figure out what root key the sample contains.

If you have trouble doing this yourself, you can try and approximate. Most people have relative pitch, while some have perfect pitch. You can try and play the loop alongside another loop that has definite pitch and try to match them.

The full version of Sound Forge has the Spectrum Analysis tool, which is quite handy for analyzing frequencies (which determines pitch).

That's correct. If the sample is a One-shot, it does not matter. The One-shot will playback it its original form, ignoring the ACID project's overall tempo and key.

3) It does matter if you want to take the same sample and use it elsewhere, like in another ACID project.

There are three types of digital audio tracks in ACID: Loop, Beatmapped and One-shot. Loop and Beatmapped tracks always have ACIDization applied to them while One-shots do not.

One-shots are preferred for, say, single percussion hits or sound bites of spoken words. This is because such samples usually do not have a definite pitch.

One-shots are not designed to loop like Loops are; One-shots are designed to play only once in any given event on the timeline, whereas Loops can be drawn/painted over and over in any given event.

As an example, listen to my remix of Soren LaRue's "Innerchild" (via my ACIDplanet page link). Some of the percussion tracks like the kick, the clap and the snare are One-shots that I specifically arranged. I simply took each instance of, for example, the clap and had it play every other quarter note.

As I've said in number 1, such metadata is automatically added when you render to a new track in ACID.

How ACID determines what kind of track the newly rendered track will be all depends on the length of the track. (I can elaborate further if needed.)

4) That is true about burning at slower speeds guarantees a better copy without errors. It's a convenience vs. quality issue. You may get to burn the CD faster, but you may also find out the CD won't play or errors will occur (like track jumping or the track playing will jump forward or backward) in certain consumer players.

HTH,
Iacobus
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RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page

Subject:RE: questions for mD

Reply by: tibby

Date:11/26/2003 2:18:14 AM

okay, I THINK I've got it, but there are still a few things...

**- If I record a track in ACID, it's not a loop or one-shot, etc until I define it that way. IF I define it was LOOP or BEAT-M and render to a WAV, that WAV will have the BPM and KEY info that ACID's added to it. (IS this right?)

If I render as a one-shot, none of that info gets embedded in the wav.

**If I record a guitar part in E and mistakenly have the ROOT NOTE down as C#, I'm stuck with that (in the rendered WAV) unless I edit it out in SOUND FORGE. ...RIGHT?

***Is there any way for me to get EXPLORER to preview my wav samples in their original BPM? The WAVs aren't loops or one shots, but some play back perfectly and some don't. OH, and some LOOP REPEAT and others don't. But these are wavs... are they somehow defined as loops or one-shots? ...I didn't think this was possible...

Thanks again. Have a good holidays!

Subject:RE: questions for mD

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:11/26/2003 5:07:44 PM

Hi again tibby,

**When you record in ACID, by default the recorded track becomes a Beatmapped track. If you uncheck the option, "make new track follow project tempo," the track will become a One-shot instead.

In both cases, ACIDization does occur. It's the track type that determines what kind of ACIDization occurs. Loop and Beatmapped tracks get key and tempo info embedded, while One-shots do not.

Note that even though no key or tempo info gets embedded with a One-shot, the file still gets embedded with info. (The info basically just tells ACID that the file is a One-shot and no stretching is to be done.) Sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that.

**Not exactly. If you, say, record a part and mistakenly assign the wrong root note when you render, you would open up the track's properties and assign the correct root note later on.

Just remember that you must click the "save" or "save as" buttons (accessed in the same properties dialog) if you want to permanently apply the root key change to the loop.

You can, of course, also use Sound Forge's ACID Loop Creation Tools to reassign the root note, which is basically the same thing as using the other method.

With both methods, you're actually not changing how the sample sounds, but how ACID itself "reads" the info embedded in the sample when it considers the overall project key (and tempo, if applicable).

***As I've said in my previous post, you can right-click a file in the Explorer and choose, Open with Player. This will open the sample up in the associated media player (like Windows Media Player) and play it back in its original form without any ACIDization applied.

Take note that some media players cannot playback samples higher than a bit-depth of 16-bit.

As I've also said in my previous post:

"For your samples that are not ACIDized (those without a tempo or key embedded), ACID will try its best in determining the tempo itself based upon the length of the sample, but note that ACID also bases the assumption that the sample is a four beat sample, which could really be, for example, an eight beat sample. You can remedy this by adding the track to your project and going into the track's properties to adjust the track accordingly."

Since ACID can't "see" any embedded info in the file, it's left to its own devices to determine the best course of action for a file without any such info.

A file without ACIDization, for example, that's 30 seconds or less is usually declared a Loop by ACID.

But, again, note that ACID calculates tempo based upon a four beat selection over a length of time.

For example, let's say we have a 28 second sample with no embedded info. More than likely, ACID will ACIDize this sample at about 137 BPM for tempo, which is about 64 beats.

Why? I'm not exactly sure but I believe ACID bases its decision upon how many times it can divide the sample up evenly into four beat segments. But for all we know, the sample could truly be 32 beats rather than 64 in the same 28 second amount of time, which means the tempo would be cut in half.

That's why it's important you embed this info yourself rather than let ACID do it.

HTH,
Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page