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Subject:DAW opinions please
Posted by: dorkus
Date:10/27/2003 10:39:19 AM
I'll try to keep this short; I really need some input from those of you that have used other PC-based multitrack programs. Please read and give your opinions about what I'm missing. I use ACID pro EXTENSIVELY. I'm an audio guy that uses lots of loops - I use very little midi. I use acid for writing a song, and then replace a lot of the parts later with guitars and drums, etc. What I like: Tempo matching is unsurpassed; the ability preview loops in your project before loading them into the project; slicing loops and moving the pieces around is super fast. I use Acid for everything because I go to it first, and then the project gets so complex that I never get it into another program. What I'm starting to need: the ability to record and monitor more that two tracks at a time. I currently use a stand-alone hard disk recorder (MX2424), and fly tracks in and out - it's a pain. What I like about other programs: Auto punch-in and out; being able to put more than one file on a track. What else bugs me about Acid: I usually end up with about 80 tracks per song, and that gets hard to manage (if I could combine files on tracks, that would help - also, I know I can render and combine, but I usually want to keep the files separate). I've used Nuendo 2, Cubase SX 2, and Sonar 3 Producer, but am not happy with them -- Nuendo and Cubase: I can't get a handle on the media pool thing. It just seems like a lot of steps to preview a loop (I use lots of loops). Sonar: I like Sonar's concept, but when you get to slicing up loops, it gets screwy. (Take a loop, cut it into 3 pieces, move the front piece to the back, and something WILL get deleted - every time). I spend lots of time finding workarounds so that it doesn't delete pieces while I move stuff around. What am I missing? I would love to have "Acid Workstation;" Sonar seems to be the closest. Many of you use other programs and then sync Acid with it. Would this be what I'm looking for, or would it be a pain? Is there a program that I'm missing? Am I missing something in Cubase or Nuendo that would make the previewing process easier? Does my experience with Sonar ring a bell with you Sonar users, or is there something I'm doing that makes it screwy? I want Acid, with just a bit more. Please reply if you have experience with any of these programs. I really appreciate your time and input. -Jim- |
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Subject:RE: DAW opinions please
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:10/27/2003 11:27:47 AM
I've been thinking about getting Cakewalk's Home Studio 2004. I could render a mix, open it in Home Studio, record my tracks, and then mix in acid. I don't know how that would work, but it looks interesting. I really like acid and use it professionally, but up to now I've had to record my own track with an ADAT, and that is time consuming. |
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Subject:RE: DAW opinions please
Reply by: marcarotsky
Date:10/27/2003 11:37:28 AM
ill tell you, acid can do a lot of what your are describing. IN CONJUNCTION with some hardware. suggestion #1 would be to get youself an m-audio sound card. the prices are VERY affordable and it will make your life SO MUCH more enjoyable!!! (while working with audio anyway :-). this will enable you to record multi track at once and punch in and out. I have used almost every other software available out there for audio production. ESPECIALLY when it comes to loop based music (which is what it seems you do 90% of the time) there is no comparison to acid. i have used sonar, live, pro tolls, logic...like i said, almost ALL the big boys!! if you were into more midi sequencing id DEFINITLEY tell you to go with REASON. but, you dont seem to do a lot with midi. ALTHOUGH, reason is great for resampling and effects. you might want to consider trying out reason just for the fact that the samplers, yes you heard me right, SAMPLER"S" are EXCELLENT in REASON. you can add as many as you want and still sync them with acid. now that acid is "rewire compliant" it makes sequencing these 2 programs together a breeze!!! also recycle. (both of these are propellerhead products) they really hit homeruns with these 2 programs. in recycle you can chang loops to whatever you want how ever you want. as for inserting DIFFERENT files on a same track in acid, thats about the only thing YOU CANT DO. (in an easy way that is) without combining and rendering out new tracks. to sum up....my 2 simple suggestions, m-audio sound card (fire wire or usb) and reason and/or recycle. did this help at all???? --marc |
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Subject:RE: DAW opinions please
Reply by: dorkus
Date:10/27/2003 12:13:31 PM
Thanks for the input. I have sound cards that support multiple ins/outs - the problem is Acid will only record a single stereo track at once (not eight at a time and such). I do mostly live band type stuff; I really don't use or need samplers much. |
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Subject:RE: DAW opinions please
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:10/27/2003 12:59:34 PM
I see your dilemma. You want to record more than one stereo (or mono) track at a time and keep them separate on their own tracks. Since ACID's recording features are rudimentary, it'd be impossible to do this. ACID wasn't touted as a true multitrack app—that title belongs to Vegas alone. The apps in the Sony line were meant to compliment each other. Have you checked out Vegas? You mentioned you've used Nuendo, Cubase and SONAR. I'm suggesting Vegas mostly because you seem comfortable with ACID's interface for the most part and Vegas works very much on that same principle, being so painfully easy to use it's almost pathetic. HTH, Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page |
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Subject:RE: DAW opinions please
Reply by: dorkus
Date:10/27/2003 7:06:55 PM
Does Vegas have the loop explorer like Acid? For some reason, I always thought Vegas was geared towards video. |
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Subject:RE: DAW opinions please
Reply by: L25
Date:11/1/2003 11:51:40 AM
Vegas started out as audio only and then integrated video, so if you want use vegas as an audio only app that's fine, but you get the video functions as well. I have not tried it, but I bet you can customize vegas to remove most of the video functions from the interface. |
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Subject:RE: DAW opinions please
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:11/1/2003 12:41:52 PM
L25 is correct. Like ACID, Vegas has features that appear only when you want them to. (Many still don't know about ACID Pro 4.0's bus track view.) You basically don't have to touch video if you don't want to. (Have you tried the demo yet?) Rest assured, Vegas is very capable at multitracking digital audio. Vegas does have an explorer like ACID does as well. It doesn't do looping per se, but does act very much on the concept as ACID does. (You draw and paint out events like you do in ACID, for example.) You can also copy and paste events like you do in ACID, but Vegas doesn't do any timestretching or key stretching like ACID does. (It takes the sample at face value. What you hear is what you essentially get.) HTH, Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page |
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Subject:RE: DAW opinions please
Reply by: mortalengines
Date:11/2/2003 5:50:52 PM
Okay Iacobus, now you have me intrigued, as i eventually want to get into multiple input recording - can you open acid as an app in vegas, thereby making it a slave to vegas' clock? or do you have to send your individual acid loops & open them in vegas or what? how does acid & vegas work together? |
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Subject:RE: DAW opinions please
Reply by: marcarotsky
Date:11/3/2003 11:08:31 AM
you can sync acid to any other program as long as the program has midi clock and/or midi time code output. (or vice-versa) vegas DOES have midi clock and mtc output. so YES you can sync acid with vegas. therefore you can have all your loops arranged in acids time line and have them triggered by vegas. -marc |
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Subject:RE: DAW opinions please
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:11/3/2003 12:34:27 PM
Ditto what marc said. In addition, note that both ACID and Vegas generate MIDI Timecode (MTC) and MIDI Clock in addition to being triggered via MIDI Timecode. Essentially, you'd probably want ACID to generate MTC and have Vegas trigger to ACID's generated MTC. You could also, of course, render out files as necessary and import them in either application. Both apps pretty much support the same file types such as WAV. HTH, Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page |