Subject:ID3 info carries into new MP3

Posted by: StevenBell

Date:10/21/2003 5:53:49 PM

When I perform a Save As of a WAV into MP3 and fill out the ID3 information, the resulting MP3 still retains the ID3 of some previous file.

This only happens with SF7. SF5 works correctly.

Is this happening to anyone else?

Steven Bell

Subject:RE: ID3 info carries into new MP3

Reply by: msterlin

Date:10/21/2003 8:28:21 PM

I've seen this behavior too, but on 5.0 (studio). I'm now using 6.0 studio and haven't bothered to try to reproduce it because i've found the method that works properly.

Here are the ways I've found that this happens and how to make it work:

1. You open an mp3, which is converted to wave, edit, and then save as mp3. It would leave the old fields and only update the new ones - like if the original didnt have an album title and you specify an album, the album would get updated, but the other fields would remain as in the original even if you put values in for them. Solution is to save the wave after unchecking, 'save id3 tag' then re-open it and save it as mp3 after updating the tag info to what you want.

2. Rip from cd or record from line-in - save as mp3 - no issues, saves the new id3 tag properly. Although it will add a field for 'engineer' which is the name you used when registering. You have to uncheck all the fields in the 'extended..' dialog from the summary tab of the properties and save that as the default to avoid this.

3. Everytime you add an id3 tag it becomes a new template ('untitled' if you don't save it). If on the next save, you pick a different template like say the built-in 192kbs, the id3 tag from the prior save will be added to the file (if you don't click custom and change them). Basically you have to make sure that everytime you add an id3 tag you click on custom and update the info accordingly. I still don't see the value of a 'template' that includes an id3 tag, unless every song you are saving has the same info - why would i want a template for 'ac-dc,' 'back in black' unless i needed to save that particular tag into multiple files...

I rip from cd, save the wave for my archive, then save-as mp3. On the save-as dialog, leave the 'untitled' template as the template to use, click on custom, enter the tag info, and save. It will remember the last values entered, which works well if you are doing multiple songs from the same album as you only have to update the song title.

Subject:RE: ID3 info carries into new MP3

Reply by: SonyTSW

Date:10/22/2003 10:22:08 PM

Most likely your original wave file contains summary information.

Summary information that is set/viewed in File | Properties | Summary tab will always override summary information you set for the same ID3 parameter in a custom MP3 template. Preserving a file's original metadata is by design. This also applies to other formats that support setting the summary information in a custom template (Windows Media, Real Media).

You'll need to change the summary data in the file properties dialog if you want to change the ID3 tag (or you can clear the field(s) in the file properties dialog and set it in a custom MP3 template).

The reason for setting ID3 tags in a custom MP3 template is so you could create some standard tags for copyright, engineer, etc. in an audio production environment. Some of the information would need to be entered as summary data specific to the recorded file (title, artist, etc.) in the file properties dialog, but a custom MP3 template would save you some typing of common information such copyright and engineer.

Subject:RE: ID3 info carries into new MP3

Reply by: tomasgibbs50

Date:10/23/2003 9:32:28 AM

After listening to the winners from http://www.songoftheyear.com I noticed the same thing. The previous files are still embedded some how.

Subject:RE: ID3 info carries into new MP3

Reply by: msterlin

Date:10/23/2003 10:45:50 AM

Thanks for the info SonyTSW. I had actually inferred that some of the behavior was by design, just by observing what was being done as I tried various options to get what I want. I do think some of it is non-intuitive, however.

1. Specifically, the 'engineer' tag is only pertinent to id3 v2.x. A fresh rip from cd will contain no summary info - sf adds it (but only engineer). The id3 tag dialog does not show a field for engineer because it shows only the fields that are common to both v1 and v2 tags. A reasonable design choice, but confusing when you now have a tag that you didnt expect. I used to clear it in the summary everytime until i discovered the extended info (although clearing it is not sufficient because sf will put it back for each new file unless you uncheck the field in the extended info).

2. My comment about saving a template was kind of tongue in cheek. I understand that the premise is to save some things that are always common, however for id3 about the only thing that could be common among multiple files is genre, so why save a template with a single field filled out. It's like batch converter's idea of a single global metadata for all files that are converted - maybe useful for someone recording their own material, but not useful for someone ripping cds and saving the waves to create a digital archive of their music unless every song has the same title, album, artist...

3. The truly confusing aspect of the summary info is the fact that if you open an mp3 with an existing id3 tag, the summary tab will be updated with the title from the id3 tag (and engineer, as above). But you can't see the other fields. It is essentially the intersection of valid wav summary info and id3 tag info and that is why it was confusing when some tag info would not change.

I realize sf is first and foremost a wave editor, and I actually love the program - been using it for a few years now. I think more and more people are using sf the way i do, to extract from cd and save wav/mp3, so it would be nice if you could actually see any existing id3 tag info (how about another tab on the properties rather than intersecting the wav summary and id3 info?). Of course this is no longer a problem for me as I never open mp3 and edit it - if i mess up, i just get a new copy of the wav from my archive and do it again. It's all working flawlessly for me now.

Subject:RE: ID3 info carries into new MP3

Reply by: StevenBell

Date:10/24/2003 4:40:56 PM

These WAV files are new. I export my mixes from SONAR and they do not contain any summary data.

I just checked the last one and the File/Properties/Summary page is blank.

Furthermore, when attempting to convert this to MP3 in SF7, the ID3 page is blank. I fill it in with what I want, continue with the export and it is created with an older MP3's ID3 information.

This is just plain wrong (and does not happen in SF5).

A brand new WAV for which I enter ID3 info should show *that* info when saved at MP3.

Since this does not seem to be happening to anyone else (I did a search before entering my post) there must be something I am doing wrong.

Steven Bell

Subject:RE: ID3 info carries into new MP3

Reply by: SonyTSW

Date:10/30/2003 4:05:47 PM

Steven,

There is a bug in Sound Forge 7.0 where it won't use the proper settings for a render when you modify a template and click OK without saving it (the template name will be "Untitled"). Perhaps this is why your ID3 tags aren't getting set correctly? The current workaround is to be sure to save the template first before using it.

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=218771

Edit: This bug was fixed in 7.0a, it was only in 7.0. Go to Download at the top of this page to get to the update. Be sure that the summary info isn't already set in File | Properties (you may have to click Extended) because if it is set there, the render will use it from the file in preference to the template.