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Subject:New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Posted by: combee
Date:10/13/2003 9:37:30 AM
Somehow I missed this and purchased the upgrade. Only to discover that it won't install because I only have ME. And then to be informed via telephone that Sony "won't be making upgrades for any other versions of Windows anymore" because "Microsoft is not going to provide support for Windows 98 anymore". Which seems lame to me. What were they thinking? I work for a small non-profit business and Sound Forge is integral in what we do. To upgrade to Windows XP would cost us DAYS in time and dollars for other software upgrades. It could be done, but is it worth it? I am so disappointed. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:10/13/2003 1:01:43 PM
Short answer: Yes, it would be worth it. I've said this before: In order to progress forward, we must upgrade to newer and better technologies that are better than what preceded before. Windows XP and 2000, being based on Windows NT, are way better than 9x/Me ever thought of being. It's only natural to start developing for a platform that's more stable and faster than another. Also, think of it this way: Would you rather develop for a specific platform and make a product better or spread your resources thin and rely on backwards technology? Again, keep in mind that 9x/Me cannot hold a candle to XP and 2000's performance. You'd be essentially hindering those that use XP/2000. To add, XP and 2000 are where the rest of the DAW industry is heading; Sonar 3.0 is XP/2000 only, for example. Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: JJKizak
Date:10/13/2003 1:23:03 PM
As I have said before you will be forced to upgrade to XP as all of the latest Sata raid and Hyperthreading are only slated for XP. Win2k will not get these upgrades. As they say its strictly business. That means you loose and business wins. JJK |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Garfy
Date:10/13/2003 2:52:36 PM
First, you are not alone. I was trapped by Sony as well. I agree, regrettably, that I should have read the fine print of the system specs. What I feel is borderline fraud is that the requirement that you are running an OS that is NOT yet the being run by the majority of PC's, was not in the e-mail OR the linked page referenced in the e-mail. Although we will never know for certin, I would be willing to bet that it was discussed and planned that way. Now that Sony owns Sonic Foundry and they have taken this particular stance with this upgrade, I for one will no longer be upgrading any of my Sonic Foundry software. It has been good for the past 8 years but that doesn't matter to them, so why should it matter to me. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Ted_H
Date:10/13/2003 4:18:54 PM
FYI - making Sound Forge 7.0 for only Windows 2000 and XP was something that was in the works long before the Sony acquisition. That was a decision made by Sonic Foundry. Ted |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Jessariah
Date:10/13/2003 6:46:47 PM
I'm one of those who held onto my 98SE as long as I could (Project 5 was my Waterloo...). Except, it wasn't. One weekend later, Everything was up and running and more stable than ever. Take a deep breath, make the plunge...you won't regret it. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Garfy
Date:10/13/2003 7:20:16 PM
I have no objection to the choice to build v7.0 for XP & 2K only. My objection is with the marketing of the product and the total lack of concern, or so it would seem, for the install base. This upgrade had a requirement that you use an OS which most people do not have. The upgrade letter or even the details page linked to the letter should have noted that fact. It did not. I do not believe that no one considered that people would buy the upgrade based on their past experience with past SF upgrades and would fail to check the requirements. Yes, the onus is on the buyer to check that their system is supported by the upgrade. However, an ethical company would have made the statement upfront, rather than take the money and say sorry, it was your mistake. THAT is my objection. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: MOVIEMECHANIC
Date:10/14/2003 1:32:34 AM
Might as well buy XP Version 2002 and get all the benefits that it comes with. Hopefully LONGHORN won't make XP obsolete like XP did to ME. Maybe all of these software will be able to run on Lindows 5 or 6 someday? |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:10/14/2003 9:09:35 AM
"My objection is with the marketing of the product and the total lack of concern, or so it would seem, for the install base. " Are you an adult? It doesn't sound like it, with all that whining. Most adults take responsibilities for their own mistakes. This is the year 2003, how long have you been working on a computer? Ever since I started using one in 1989, I have learned to read the box of a piece of software I was about to purchase and look at the "System requirements". Now you're trying to blame Sony for your mistake? What a joke. Where the hell have you been for the last 15 years or so? |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: RichMacDonald
Date:10/14/2003 10:01:11 AM
>However, an ethical company would have made the statement upfront, rather than take the money and say sorry, it was your mistake. Ok, combee never mentioned anything about Sony refusing to refund his purchase. And you stated that you're not even going to upgrade. AFAICT this makes you a liar as well as a whiner. If SoFo refused you a refund, I'll give you and combee an apology. Otherwise, wake up. Yes its unfortunate the app doesn't support Win98. But do you realize how much this increases the cost of developing and supporting the software? Answer: It greatly increases the cost of testing, increases the number of bugs, may prohibit the addition of new features, and worst of all, increases the complexity of the app which makes future improvements even harder. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: billybk
Date:10/14/2003 10:40:08 AM
"This upgrade had a requirement that you use an OS which most people do not have." Garfy, Are you sure that most people don't have a W2K/XP OS already? You may be surprised. Most new computers these days come with either XP Home or Pro pre-installed. Many users like myself have already been using XP for ages. It's on my desktop DAW and my brand new desktop replacement laptop as well. Now I still have Win98 installed on my old PII 333Mhz, but I only use that for internet surfing. It's about the only thing the old Win98/ME OS's are good for these days anyways ;) Most people I know are using XP. I know it is not a bonafide scientific poll, but @ the KVR-VST website (for audio plugin geeks), there has been an on going poll to find which OS, it's members are using: http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20415&start=135 With a sampling of 400 users: 76% are using a W2K/XP OS (60% on XP) Only 13% are still using a Win98/ME OS Even less, 9% are using a Mac OS These are users that are into the digital audio scene and are looking for the best, in stability, compatibility and performance from an OS. XP wins hands down! It is pretty clear where this is all heading. If not already, XP will be the most prevalent OS, inside PC's, in the very near future. I am glad SOFO/SONY has dumped the Win98/ME OS's, why waste precious programming time on a dinasour that is close to extinction already. Billy Buck |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: combee
Date:10/14/2003 2:13:23 PM
RE a refund. Yes, they did offer me a full refund. I haven't decided which route I want to go yet. Still weighing my options so to speak. I did not feel the previous person was whining because I had the same thought. You cannot market a product with a major system requirement change and not make it much more apparent you are doing so. Of course, I realize they had no idea I did not have XP when they emailed me the rebated price, but they should have stated this change in a more prevalent way than they did. And then again, you did not speak to the person from Sony that I did. Frankly, he was really rude. To boot, he couldn't give me a decent reason for the change. His excuse being rather lame. As to the last person agreeing with their decision to dump Win98/ME, that is certainly your right. And I doubt seriously it will affect sales in either direction. However, for the small business person decisions that will cost money, such as upgrading to XP, have to be made seriously. Anyhow, my point originally was that the manner in which this matter was handled by Sony could have been improved. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Garfy
Date:10/14/2003 5:25:27 PM
Thank you. That is precisely my point as well. I take full responsibility for not having checked the system requirements. Still, Sony/SoFo could have choosen to give me a refund. I was not even offered one. So, when I finally do get around the software/hardware issues and their respective costs, I may upgrade to XP, but I will not be including any more Sony/SoFo software when I do. Still for now, upgrading to XP is not even an option for me. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:10/14/2003 5:34:59 PM
". Anyhow, my point originally was that the manner in which this matter was handled by Sony could have been improved." And in a perfect world, everyone would get along, and we all would live in peace and harmony, everyone would agree and go along on their smiling merry way. Oh yeah Digidesign just sent me a promotion offer for Pro Tools TDM.....wow!!! what do you know? It didn't say anything about me having to have Windows XP or having to buy a MAC with OS-X. It sure was a good thing I checked the website with the minimum system requirements information, buried under 3 seperate links of marketing information. I'm never buying another Digidesign product in my life....wahhhhhh!!!! Also, Microsoft never told me about having to install Windows XP in standard PC mode, to avoid IRQ conflicts and now my sound card gliches sporatically because my network card connecting me to the internet is sharing the same IRQ.....They only told me how Windows XP was so good for plug an play devices and I have nothing to worry about. They refused to refund my money also because they don't refund opened software. I'm not buying anymore Microsoft products either!!!! Bill Gates can kiss my a** if he thinks he's going to get another dime of my money. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Garfy
Date:10/14/2003 5:36:45 PM
No, Sony refuesed to refund my purchase. The odd thing here is that they asked if I read the system requirements. When I said no, they said there was nothing they could do. Does that mean if I had read the requirements and purchased the software anyway that they would have refunded the purchase? It makes no sense to me. What I said was that I would no longer be upgrading my SoFo software (a choice I have made based on my experience with this specific upgrade). How that makes me a liar is beyond me. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: combee
Date:10/14/2003 7:14:57 PM
From my point of view, we have used this software for the last 5 or more years. We have purchased the upgrades and never had any issues. So what am I supposed to think when they send me an email - "Oh look at our new features!!" "Oh, isn't this great!" "Oh look at this cheap price we are giving you!". At what point am I supposed to say to myself, "Hey, I bet they will change the system requirements. I'd better go to the Sony Site, Find the More Info, and somehow find the fine print before I buy this" Be real. A company (or person for that matter) cannot go through life with the attitude "I will do things anyway I want and you just have to put up with it." That would put a lot of companies out of business. In an imperfect world we have to work with the people that are out there and adjust our attitudeand practices to please the consumer. Good business sense tells me that they should have listed the new system requirements somewhere more prominant than on page 3 in tiny print. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Geoff_Wood
Date:10/14/2003 9:53:59 PM
Garfy and Combee, In the not too far distant future there will be very few new apps or software upgrades *from anybody* that you will be able to run if you refuse to move with the times. geoff |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: combee
Date:10/15/2003 6:21:59 AM
I'm not refusing. Just don't know that its financially feasible at this time. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: billybk
Date:10/15/2003 7:50:17 AM
Hey combee, You can find XP Home Edition(OEM Full version) on the net for less than $90. I did a quick search on www.pricewatch.com and came up with lot's of deals, like this one: http://www.ateck.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=453054842 When I bought my WinXP Pro, as an upgrade to WinME, I got an OEM version from a web store, via pricewatch, for $130 dollars. In fact, if I was you, I would have spent $90.00 on an XP Home Edition OS upgrade, before I would have spent the $99.00 or $149.00 for the SF7 upgrade. Time to breakout the ol' credit card, combee :) Billy Buck |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: RichMacDonald
Date:10/15/2003 9:58:35 AM
>No, Sony refuesed to refund my purchase. The odd thing here is that they asked if I read the system requirements. When I said no, they said there was nothing they could do. Does that mean if I had read the requirements and purchased the software anyway that they would have refunded the purchase? It makes no sense to me. Me neither. I said I would issue you an apology and I do. Sorry. IMHO, Sony should give you a refund. If it were me, I would be threatening to run a stop payment on my credit card and asking to speak to the supervisor, cranking up the heat that way. Did you download the software or get it in a shipment? If the latter, that would be going back by certified mail. If the former, it gets uglier. >What I said was that I would no longer be upgrading my SoFo software (a choice I have made based on my experience with this specific upgrade). How that makes me a liar is beyond me. It doesn't. However, you had written: >However, an ethical company would have made the statement upfront, rather than take the money and say sorry, it was your mistake. without mentioning the key detail, i.e., Sony refusing to give you a refund. That is why I prefaced my accusation with AFAICT. You've now shown me I made a bad assumption. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: RevF
Date:10/15/2003 3:18:43 PM
I am really pissed off with SF. I am sent an invite to upgrade to V7, I pay my money by credit card, try to download - their site doesn't work. Complain on their "e-mail" contact page (Does anyone read these or is it just automated?), only to be told that V7 wont work on 98SE anyway!!!! I think that is called fraud - selling something as an upgrade and not telling the purchaser that it wont bloody work on the same OS until after they try to download it!!! I hope SF read this (because there doesn't seem to be any way of e-mailing them - it all seems linked to their auto-response systems), and refund my money, or I'll have to go via the credit card Co. to get it back claiming fraud by SF. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: Garfy
Date:10/15/2003 3:47:32 PM
That's great for you, but for some of us there are costs involved in the decision other than the OS and SF7. When the details have been worked out, I will upgrade to XP. I just cannot do it at this time. I would also like to give Sony Digital cudos for stepping up and responding to this dialog. Today I received an e-mail from their customer relations manager offering me a refund. My faith has been renewed and when the time is right for ME to upgrade to XP, I will also upgrade my Sony Digital SoFo software. |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: SonyJDodge
Date:10/15/2003 4:47:53 PM
There are automated features involved with our new communication tool, but in the end, if you do submit your incident all the way through, there are real, live, caring human beings here processing your requests. Having a database driven support tool just makes sense, to both the customer (all your support requests are stored in your support account plus you'll receive much more timely responses from our department than in the past, usually within one business day) and to us (we can efficiently respond to customers without having to plow through 4000 virus/spam emails and denial of service bounce-backs every day before finding legitimate requests for help). To contact us simply go to www.custcenter.com and click Submit a question to Customer Service. If none of the system's suggested responses work for you, just continue to submit your incident and we'll get your request for help. Like I said before, we typically respond within one business day to any request, unless more research is required. When you submitted a request for help and you had Sound Forge 7.0 in the product pull-down, and Placing an Order in the I Need Help With pulldown, and you had Windows ME or 98SE specified as your operating system, then our system would automatically tell you that you can't place an order for that product under that operating system. Change the I Need Help With pulldown to something else and you'll be able to submit your incident through our system. Or just give us a call. Live, caring human beings are standing by. The same ones who worked for Sonic Foundry, who now work for Sony Pictures Digital. Sincerely, Josh D. Manager, Customer Relations Sony Pictures Digital |
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Subject:RE: New 7.0 Only for XP & 2000?
Reply by: fosko
Date:10/16/2003 1:23:44 PM
I agree with both camps. IT would have been fair and nice to but in bolder letters REQUIRES WIN XP. It would have been GREAT customer service to refund your money..becasue you would have come back and purchased it anyway once you upgraded. But it's NOT required..and I'm not really sure unethical. They did give standard warnings and statements. Same happened to me when I had win 98..purchased soemthing from SoFO and then found out I needed 98SE. Oh well. part of the price of doing business. Fooled me once shame on you fooled me twice shame on me. Now I ALWAYS check requirements.. but I can understand some people may not think that way. I often fix freinds computers in my spare time. Had a buddy who REFUSED to let go of Win 3.1. Should he have expected Sony to make it MORE apparent that this version wouldnt work to him? Or should he say..hmmm, I DON"T have the latest and greatest anymore...I better check things first becasue I can't assume it will work with my machine. As a side note...I no longer support his Win 3.1. ( I don't even remember how that thing worked anymore) |
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Subject:NEW VIEW
Reply by: MOVIEMECHANIC
Date:10/16/2003 7:51:24 PM
For everyone who committed to Sonic Foundry with Sound Forge and Vegas+DVD, just look ahead some and realize that with Sony's worldwide clout, having Vegas+DVD and Sound Forge on your resume may be a bonus like it is right now with Final Cut or Avid. Sony IS electronics, now Sony WILL BE professional media software tools too. All I hear is Apple's Final Cut. Well it'll be Sony's Vegas now!!! |