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Subject:SF7 is... a cash grab?
Posted by: Angels
Date:9/28/2003 4:38:04 PM
Considering all the feature requests that used to fly accross these boards for many years, I'm surprised nobody is really complaining about the minimal new feature list offered to us at an introductory $99 ($149 regular). I'm worried many important contributors have shut the door on this software... Frankly, it does everything it always did, plus a few clumsy Frankensteinian grafts of technology from the other products, and a few improvements in functionality that people have asked for over the years. The only real new thing, is the automation of effects via envelopes. Everything else seems just minor fixings and additions. It feels like the great big heads at Sony got together with their new employees and said "what can we do to create a new shipping product as fast as possible?" And the pressured staff gave them SF7. There may be other reasons for the lack of a public beta on SF7, but frankly I think the biggest reason was that there is so little to test! Is there 99/149 dollars' worth? That will no doubt be a personal question. But like it or not, you have to upgrade to stay in the upgrade loop, or face the financial consequences later. This is what ultimately makes it a money grab: so much for so little and this frustratingly bullying position software houses have put us into. If this is representative of the quantity of improvements we can expect for ONE THIRD OF THE FULL RETAIL PRICE in future product upgrades, it does not look good at all. One more thing: it REALLY bugs me that Sony just waltzed in and branded everything Sony (BTW, I hate the new font), like they developed all this in the first place. Even Pinnacle and Apple had the tact to keep the Steinberg and Emagic names intact. Or it may just show how up the creek without a paddle Sonic Foundry really was. I'm definitely taking a close look at the competition before plunking another $99 on this software. I always liked Sonic Foundry; I get the distinct feeling Sony will not be the same. Angels |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: drbam
Date:9/28/2003 5:28:28 PM
>>The only real new thing, is the automation of effects via envelopes. Everything else seems just minor fixings and additions.<< Value is a very subjective issue and only after using something for a while can anyone *accurately* determine a product's worth. For me I'm guessing that the new features will be worth $99. I've always longed for volume envelopes and fx automation in SF so these features alone should be worth the upgrade price for me. Much like the addition of automation and bus tracks in Vegas made the upgrade to 4.0 a must. I really could care less about the logo. I just want apps that are stable and do what I need them to do and a company that backs up their product. So far I've got no complaint with Sony. Of course that may change in the future, but for now. . . ;-) drbam |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: tomaras
Date:9/28/2003 7:17:53 PM
Personally I'm thrilled to have been able to upgrade from the cheap LE version of Sound Forge 6 to the full version of Sound Forge 7 for only $99. It's a very big improvement for me. |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: kentwolf
Date:9/28/2003 10:22:27 PM
>>...I'm thrilled to have been able to upgrade from the cheap LE version...to the full version of Sound Forge 7 for only $99. Same here! I jumped right on it! Total outlay: $169. I'll take it. |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: pwppch
Date:9/28/2003 10:32:07 PM
>>One more thing: it REALLY bugs me that Sony just waltzed in and branded everything Sony (BTW, I hate the new font), like they developed all this in the first place. Even Pinnacle and Apple had the tact to keep the Steinberg and Emagic names intact. Or it may just show how up the creek without a paddle Sonic Foundry really was. << The Apple and Pinnacle buyouts were of the entire company's of Emagic and Steinberg respectively. SONY did not buy Sonic Foundry the company. SONY purchased the software products of Sonic Foundry. Sonic Foundry did not sell the name "Sonic Foundry" to SONY. There was no choice but to rebrand from Sonic Foundry to SONY as Sonic Foundry has nothing to do with the software product Sound Forge any longer. Peter |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: MJPollard
Date:9/29/2003 12:30:45 AM
Same here. I was previously using Sound Forge XP Studio 5.0, and until the $99 offer for SF7 arrived in my inbox, my only cost-effective upgrade route was to SF Studio 6.0. Heck, I doubt I'll use 90% of what SF7 has to offer, but it's nice to know the power's there if/when I need it. |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: Ben
Date:9/29/2003 5:22:27 AM
For me, being able to undo saves is worth the $99 alone. Makes working with Forge and Vegas a pleasure. I mean, come on, $99 - that's <very> cheap. I'm really not sure why so many people are moaning about this upgrade. I see some pretty substantial improvements. At the end of the day, Forge is already an extremely capable stereo editor - the best on the market - and there's probably not a whole lot more you can add to it. I mean, what were you after exactly? Forge always has blown Wavelab out of the water. I think a lot of us were initally very concerned about the whole Sony thing, but they seem to be a very good job of retaining the whole Sonic Foundry ethos. Merely the fact that they're contining the pro line of products is a very good thing. Upset by the change of logo? Grow up and gimme a break Ben |
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Subject:Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: Waskel
Date:9/29/2003 9:48:05 AM
Peter, could you please tell me which products SF retained, and what their future plans are? |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: Ben
Date:9/29/2003 9:57:57 AM
SF didn't keep any of it's multimedia software - just kept their mediasitelive thingy. In fact, it's very sad if you go to the SoFo website - it's so bare, just flogging some this mediasite corporate software. Bet they'll kick themselves in a couple of years... Ben |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: SonyJennL
Date:9/29/2003 4:49:15 PM
I'm sorry to hear that people are considering version 7.0 not much of an update. fwiw, many things got updated from many requests we've gotten over the years, though it may not be something that you as an individual requested. (As an example, I, personally, have no use for timer recording but we've gotten many requests to add it as a feature.... ) As always, you can't please everyone... By the way, from an inside perspective, Sony seems to be planning to keep letting us do what we're currently working on around here. Except for the new look, we can hardly tell that anything has changed. |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: billybk
Date:9/30/2003 7:35:28 AM
"By the way, from an inside perspective, Sony seems to be planning to keep letting us do what we're currently working on around here. Except for the new look, we can hardly tell that anything has changed." Well, I was never really concerned about the SONY buyout. I personally believe it is a good thing, for the long term. SOFO, as a company, was really going nowhere and it's debt burden was like an anchor that was dragging the whole company down toward oblivion. Glad to hear that SONY is letting you all continue to do what you do best. :) Billy Buck |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: RikTheRik
Date:9/30/2003 10:27:21 AM
So it would make sense to offer upgrades from the *full* 6 to the 7 for less than $99... |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: rraud
Date:9/30/2003 11:16:25 AM
Yeah that's puzziling, $99 upgrade for Studio-6 users. It seems us pro SF-6 users are getting the shaft. How about including CDA for full ver. -6 upgrade? or $69. And IF I do upgrade I will only be able to use SF-7 on my XP machine which is miles away at the studio. Or spend another $175 for WIin XP. |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: wildbird
Date:9/30/2003 5:45:40 PM
Hi, What puzzles me is where you all are seeing this $99 offer. I'd like to take advantage of it. I'm a registered, owner of SF5.0. I wonder if they sent me an email and my spam filter filtered it. Anybody know how I can get it for $99? The website upgrade price is apparently $149. Thanks, --Brian |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: MyST
Date:9/30/2003 7:21:52 PM
"Anybody know how I can get it for $99?" Contact customer service. I also got the offer, but 6.0 is just fine for me. For me $99 US is translated into $150 Canadian...I could put that money elsewhere. M |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:9/30/2003 7:48:49 PM
rraud and SonicErik, you remind me of the laborers in Matthew 20:10-15. (Go look it up, it's worth the effort, but start at verse 1 so you get the whole story.) The list price is $499.95, the normal selling price is $399.96, the standard upgrade price is $149 ... and you're complaining that you would have to pay the same $99 for the upgrade that Studio users were offered? *sheesh* |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: MJim
Date:9/30/2003 11:19:58 PM
Ditto on the Canadian bucks. I'm happy with SF6 so think I'll wait another month and upgrade to SF8!! |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: juan2003
Date:10/1/2003 12:59:42 AM
Well,OK... but.... ...I dont perceive the same "Philosophy", "Essence" and "Naturalness" to make something new as time behind, as: Acid Pro 4.0, Vegas 4.0 or Sound Forge 6.0 Excuse me, please, but lot of people (as me) thinks that since Sony buy Sonic Foundy's products THE MAIN IDEA was to SELL, to make MONEY, to STEAL the HONORS and CREDITS of ENGINEERS of Sonic Foundry...... ...and finally to SEAL the name "Sony" (as devil's SING " 666") on the boxes of the softwares. Luck!!!! Juan |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:10/1/2003 1:47:40 PM
! Anyway, Ben, Jenn and others are right on. I personally couldn't pass up the ability to automate effects and work with projects like you do with Vegas or ACID Pro. (You don't have to commit anymore!) I had to forcefully convince myself that I was in Sound Forge and not in some other app. ;o) Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: SonyNateM
Date:10/7/2003 3:03:00 PM
Excuse me, please, but lot of people (as me) thinks that since Sony buy Sonic Foundy's products THE MAIN IDEA was to SELL, to make MONEY, to STEAL the HONORS and CREDITS of ENGINEERS of Sonic Foundry...... ...and finally to SEAL the name "Sony" (as devil's SING " 666") on the boxes of the softwares. Juan, Most of the engineers who have helped to make these products what they are today are still working on them under Sony. They certainly haven't been forgotten, and the "HONORS" are still theirs. Nate |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:10/7/2003 6:18:59 PM
"As always, you can't please everyone..." Amen to that!!! I'm thrilled about this release of Sound Forge. A lot of the features that I've been requesting since v4.5 have finally been implemented in v7.0. I asked for: 1. A VU meter 2. A more useful spectral analysis...(although there's still one part missing...hoping it's coming soon). 3. A sweep generator, to produce 20-20k sinewave sweeps. 4. Pink/Brown/White Noise generators 5. Undo past save 6. Drag and Drop CD extraction from multiple selected CDrom drives. I realize a lot of these features aren't important to the masses, but with the different types of work I do from mastering and audio system analysis, these are priceless to me. Hell, after seeing most ofl the new features I requested, I was pushing they call this release "SOUND FORGE v. REDNROLL.0". I guess Sony didn't go for that? :-( If $99 bucks is a thorn in your side, for these well needed professional features, well it's time to go get an education and step away from that "would you like fries with that?" career you're currently at. |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: keether
Date:10/7/2003 6:41:04 PM
Quick question from a SF6 user (I have the SF7 download but am waiting): Does "undo past saves" mean you can undo a single saved step without undoing every single subsequent saved step? Or do you wipe out everything you've done since that save? If it's the former, then the wordprocessing folks ought to sit up and pay attention. |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:10/7/2003 7:09:32 PM
"Undo Past save" means the entire Undo history gets saved. It works like this. When you do a save Sound Forge renders all the changes to a saved file format that you specify. Then when you go to the Edit/Undo menu, it has an "undo Save/Render". Once you do that the undo history will be intact prior to the save. One thing to keep in mind is that if you save to a format like .WAV and then close sound forge out, the undo history gets distroyed upon closing Sound Forge. As long as Sound Forge remains open the undo for a .Wav file remains intact after you save. The other feature added to Sound Forge is the addition of the .FRG project file save option. If you save in this format all the undo history will remain intact even after you close out sound forge. |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: MacMoney
Date:10/7/2003 9:57:57 PM
Thanks Sound Forge 7.0 team. 7.0 is very sweet! Alot of features I wanted. Sound Forge 6.0 has left the building.......... George Ware |
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Subject:if you have the full version 6 don't go 7
Reply by: Dr_Frik
Date:10/8/2003 11:52:10 AM
it kills wave hammer (returning it to DEMO state) even after using all the migration crap tools they provide you with... man I'm really pissed then you realize you can't do anything while playback is engaged the mouse gets S L O W and Sluggish as hell... I mean I think it's OK to add new features but for god's sake don't mess the things that were ok |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: wigworld
Date:10/8/2003 12:14:56 PM
Excuse me, please, but lot of people (as me) thinks that since Sony buy Sonic Foundy's products THE MAIN IDEA was to SELL, to make MONEY And Sonic Foundry were doing it for charity, I suppose? |
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Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry's future
Reply by: Shaun
Date:10/8/2003 5:48:28 PM
<<By the way, from an inside perspective, Sony seems to be planning to keep letting us do what we're currently working on around here. Except for the new look, we can hardly tell that anything has changed. >> That must be a relief! Here's a suggestion for a quick-hit upgrade that will win friends: make those toolbar buttons more colorful and visually intuitive. Shaun |
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Subject:SF7 Tech question . .
Reply by: RickZ
Date:10/9/2003 8:27:29 AM
Hi Peter, I've tried SF7 on my Sony (hehe) notebook, with XPProSP1, using Digigram VxPocket for live concert recording. The CPU usage is lower than Wavelab, with record time counter unchecked, looks good. Can you confirm that the old "is it really 24bit recording" issue is gone, ie the old kmixer thing that was 'fixed' with XP or XP SP1 ? The only choice in SF7 is WDM driver, whereas WL and Vegas4 allow ASIO driver. Is there any difference in those, re 24-bit vs 16-bit ? Thks, Rick Z |
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Subject:RE: SF7 is... a cash grab?
Reply by: Feda
Date:10/9/2003 5:28:12 PM
Absolutley. I paid 149$ for the full version (SF5) and it does the job. I haven't seen any useful features added in the subsequent updates especiall the 7.0 update which is just ridiculous ( I'd give them 19.95 for it, that's what it's worth if eaven that much). And than I get an e-mail offering me the update for what I paid for a full version (wow). It looks like they aren't selling many of those considering that already dropped the price by 50$. I think I'll just wait and see if they ever mange to do a god update with usefull features before I upgrade again ( I guess somewher around version 10) or maby get 7.0 if the offer it for a reasonable price. |
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Subject:RE: SF7 Tech question . .
Reply by: SonySCS
Date:10/9/2003 5:29:11 PM
Dr Frik, We're all trying to figure out why the Migration Tool didn't work for you. Please try repairing the Sound Forge install and rerunning "Register Sony DirectX Plug-Ins" and let us know what happens. Suzan |
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Subject:RE: SF7 Tech question . .
Reply by: keether
Date:10/9/2003 6:02:50 PM
Following up on Rednroll's response a few steps back: I comprehend the "undo past saves" feature. I think it must be the same thing as the "multiple levels of undo" in word processing. Just how does this differ from the big change in SF 6, "nondestructive editing"? |
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Subject:Choice of Windows OSes...
Reply by: MOVIEMECHANIC
Date:10/9/2003 6:05:18 PM
What are the technical reasons for dropping support for Windows ME and keeping Windows 2000? Specs say it still runs on a 400 Mhz processor which I have. I had 98SE and upgraded to ME because for sound capture reasons with my ATI AIW 8500DV. I also have Vegas+DVD... If I upgrade to either Windows 2000 or XP will I lose video codecs and have to buy plug-ins to get them back? A buddy of mine had to buy plug-ins to use his VideoWave 4.0 program with XP where it worked fine on 98SE. I don't want to spend more than 99 bucks for the upgrade to SF7. But if I have to Windows 2000 would be my limit since XP seems to drop all sorts of codecs. |
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Subject:RE: Choice of Windows OSes...
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:10/10/2003 8:24:02 AM
Keether, The benefit in v7.0 over v6.0 is in this respect. When you save into a format such as .WAV, you can still have the option to Undo past the save point. In v6.0, you would lose the entire undo history when you saved. This may not seem so important, seeing that you lose this anyways if you close the program out. It does allow you to save along the way as you're working on a file, and most people that have learned to save often because of a computer crash, after working on a file for 2 hours will definately benefit from this. Where you really benefit from this is if you're using a multi-track program like Vegas in conjunction with Sound Forge. In Vegas you would right click on an audio event and select "open in Sound Forge", to do some special processing. To hear the changes in Vegas that you have made in Sound Forge, you must SAVE the file. So if you save, and then go back to Vegas and listen to your changes within your Vegas project and you decide you don't like them....well in v6.0 you're SOL, but in v7.0, you can do an Undo. When Mastering material now, I will save in the .FRG format. This way, I have a back up of all the software editing I did. If a client takes something home that they decide they don't like after listening to it a few times, I don't necessarily have to redo the mastering from square one, I can just back up a few processes. |
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Subject:RE: Choice of Windows OSes...
Reply by: keether
Date:10/10/2003 10:35:58 AM
Wow! I hadn't thought it through. What a boon! That's way different from the "multiple levels of Undo" that I referred to, far more practically useful. I see I may need that. Thank you, Red! |
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Subject:RE: Choice of Windows OSes...
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:10/10/2003 4:19:20 PM
MOVIEMECHANIC, if it's any relief for you, i upgraded from 98SE to XP and at the time i was using Vegas 4 + DVD, ACID Pro 4, SoundForge 6, SIREN 2, and lots of other software as well. I formatted my drive, installed XP, reinstalled all the software, and everything ran "out of the box". I didn't need to fetch any new drivers, plugins, or codecs at all. One of the big reasons for dropping 98SE and ME is that they don't support unicode, and therefore international support is lacking. |
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Subject:RE: Choice of Windows OSes...
Reply by: MOVIEMECHANIC
Date:10/10/2003 9:50:49 PM
Thanks for the info. I guess upgrading would be worth it then for the especially if SF7 and V4+DVD could work together like that. How is Unicode able to be incorporated into WIn2000/XP and not 98SE/ME ? I found this tidbit of infor from this link. http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/mslu_announce.mspx ("The problem was the difficulty in supporting a Unicode application on Windows 95/98/ME; developers had to support those customers as well. Because those platforms do not have the native Unicode support provided by the NT family of operating systems, it was just easier to write non-Unicode applications. However, times have changed.... Starting with the Windows XP RC1 version of the Platform SDK, the Microsoft Layer for Unicode on Windows 95/98/ME Systems (MSLU for short) can help you solve this important challenge. This component provides a layer over the Win32 API on Windows 95/98/ME so that you can write a single Unicode version of your application and have it run properly on all platforms.") Seems like Unicode, although not easy to implement, can runs on all platforms. MOVIEMECHANIC |
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Subject:RE: Choice of Windows OSes...
Reply by: CERTEGY
Date:10/27/2003 3:13:09 PM
What is Sony's response to MOVIEMECHANIC's message about that Unicode can be incorrupted into Windows 98? I would like to see an update to "fix" the lack of Windows 98se support. If Microsoft has created a redistributable that allows Windows 98 and ME platforms to use Unicode, why can SONY not make an update to Sound Forge 7 to allow it to work under Windows 98 & ME? I'm sure the basic underlying code is still compatible with Windows 98 & ME. There is something in this "code" that looks to see if you have Window 98 or ME. Comments? |
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Subject:RE: Choice of Windows OSes...
Reply by: CERTEGY
Date:10/27/2003 3:13:15 PM
What is Sony's response to MOVIEMECHANIC's message about that Unicode can be incorperated into Windows 98? I would like to see an update to "fix" the lack of Windows 98se support. If Microsoft has created a redistributable that allows Windows 98 and ME platforms to use Unicode, why can SONY not make an update to Sound Forge 7 to allow it to work under Windows 98 & ME? I'm sure the basic underlying code is still compatible with Windows 98 & ME. There is something in this "code" that looks to see if you have Window 98 or ME. Comments? |
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Subject:RE: Choice of Windows OSes...
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:10/27/2003 6:16:55 PM
It seems like from moviemechanics post, that it makes win98/ME unicode compatible with some windows updates. So why does Sony have to do anything if it states a single unicode app can be written? Why not try updating your 98/ME OS so that it supports unicode and install SF7 on it? |