Same boat here. I've notice alot of small timers basically use whatever music they want and don't get any license... many even specify songs on their website or state that the accept CDs for background music. Chances are small (if any) they will get busted BUT that does not make it legal.

So, I'm looking into "good" royalty free music at a resonable price and SonicFire Pro as a possible solution (still don't have a line on a good reasonably priced lib). With that being said I'd also be interested finding out how one goes about getting a license and how much it could typically cost.

-Jason

Try out Digital Juice products. They aren't the cheapest, but they are great. They have 15 second, 30 second, and longer music clips. All are altered, but resemble famiiar tunes. Their website is www.digitaljuice.com.

have fun,
dave

Here's a pretty good response on a string found during a search of this site:
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=200114&Page=0
Confirms that we need to go to the label or an agent of the label. However, doesn't relate an actual experience of doing that and how it turned out. Looking forward to some of those...anyone been successful?
Randy

Did that but didn't find any with vocals. Am I missing something? Or, is that the norm?
Randy

You won't find nearly as much with vocals because the lyrics are licensed too. Usually groups want to sell their music with lyrics, but it is much easier to find roylaty free instrumental stuff.

dave

For general info on the subject you could try the Harry Fox Agency:
http://www.harryfox.com/

Thanks.
R.

I would think starting with the music licensing organizations... ASCAP, BMI & SESAC are the major music licensing organizations... a call or email to them could at least tell you a) if they are the licensing organization and b) who is the licensee... who owns the rights...

Never tried it but that would be my first shot.

Will

Just checked out the Harry Fox site recommended by Jlul. Looks like one option, however it is costly. For instance, I asked for a license for Celine Dion's "Because You Loved Me" on a limited license (less than 2500 copies) and their minimum cost was $.93 a copy for 500 copies (minimum order) or $465. Too rich for my limited budget but at least it is one place that I know I can start with for popular songs. I bet we can do better with going direct to labels or other places suggested above. Thanks for the leads.
Randy

Maybe it's just me, but I find it amazingly ironic that the same organizations (BMI, ASCAP, RIAA) that are suing their customers for not paying royalties can't seem to find a way to take money from those customers who DO want to pay.

See my post below -

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=205404

Outstanding! Exactly what I was hoping for. Did you ever get Sony's permission?
R.

No, I never did. But now that Sony owns SoFo....

nah, won't make a bit of difference. People have claimed that they have spoken to some record company reps and supposedly their reply was "Are you kidding me? We don't have time for that, go do whatever you want to" (for private use). But, until I have something like that in writing, or at least told to me personally, I wont' do it.

They do not make it easy, that's for sure.

- David

There are two things you need to clear rights--first you have to clear with the record co---then you have to clear with the publisher--in some cases the same entity, in other a different entity. Its very expensive, unless of course you are doing a non-profit project--then often they will cut you a considerable break.

Remember that it also takes quite a while to clear rights--sometimes months---so get an early start and be prepared to pay up the nose.

I appreciate everyones input and interest in this subject. I find it discouraging sometimes when we about all of the download debacles and the industry is not making it easy for us who want to obtain a license.

I know that I am only dreaming, but it would be nice if there was a internet site availabe, with a good interface to purchase the license from. I think that a license should be as little as a $1.00 or less for a one time use. Especially when you can download a song now days for less than a dollar.

I did notice the the Harry Fox site did have a internet purchase for the mechanic liscense, unfortunately this is not the one we need.

Lets keep sharing suggestions or progress!

Thanks,
Chad

I found a website that may be of some interest, www.clearance.com.

The site assists in obtaining the proper synchronization license to the music you want or they give you direction in how to do it yourself.

Hope this helps,

Chad

Actually - the process is quite simple.

But it can become very very expensive - depending on what you want to do.

If you want to try and license a popular song to play in one of your video projects - but don't wanna spend a good deal of money....fahgetabout it!!!

I wanted to put a sample in a track I was recording (from a movie...actually) - it was gonna cost a good 10 thousand bucks!! (I called the studio directly - they had an office set up for questions as such).

The track was already done - so I had to go in and edit out that 10 thousand dollar mistake!! That won't happen again.

But ... I digress.

You can find some places on the net to get you some home grown music - but if you really want to know the scoop - just start and stay with Harry Fox.

That is where you really really really want to start (and the longer you look, you will almost always end up there...so you may as well just start there).

Harry Fox is it.

I think I'm Harry Fox's illigitimate great grandson's nephew's next door neighbors uncle's brothers sisters boyfriends cousin's step uncle.

Does that mean I'm rich?

reamenterprises,
Obtaining music rights is relatively straightforward. You contact the publisher or record producer and ask them. You will find a variety of responses, depending on the company's policies, specific contract deals with the composer, and in many cases who you talk to and how you talk to them.
Probably the biggest variable is how you plan to use the music. If it's background for a school fundraising video, they'll probably say go for it. If it's something designed to make you money, there will generally be a fee and license. Some publishers may require you to be a member of ASCAP or BMI.
The bottom line is it's always best to ask. I've been in the business the better part of 30 years and have been given permission more times than not, and the license fees have often been reasonable. Remember, you're dealing with people, not dieties, and they are interested in presenting their product in the best light. If you present your project as a quality effort and preserve the integrity of the song, you will often get a positive response. A couple of years ago I got permission to use music from a show not yet released in the U.S. without a fee, just because the publisher liked my idea.

I'm a bit bummed because I am recreating this whole message after finding out I wasn't logged in an my password was either forgotten or different...

Anyway...

dmcknight tried to do the right thing as documented in this thread and a previous one. He is still waiting for a response. Maybe you have better connections with the right people? Care to share them?

My apologies. It seems my suggestion to try the Harry Fox Agency for information was a bit outdated since as of last year they no longer provide synchronization license services (authorization to use recorded music in combination with visual images such as film, television, video, web sites, and the like). They now say to contact the publisher directly (e.g., ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) to secure synchronization rights, which is what other posters have mentioned. Sorry for the misdirection.

I have obtained music licenses, but they don't come cheap. First go to BMI/ASCAP web page and search for the music piece. You will get a number of renditions. Find the one you want and see who owns the rights. Contact the rights owner directly and arrange a contract. This will probably be in the hundreds to thousands dollar range even for small usage, but it works. On unpublished music you can contact the composer directly; I have actually received hand coded sheet music and permission for 501c3 use from composers. The problem is getting their direct phone line; I have through some creative investigation called several very famous composers this way. It takes a lot of phone calls and web searches; I located one through his alma matta. Each case may get a different response. Hardest are dealing with big companies like MGM or Sony; but perseverence has led to success there also. P.S. Don't be surprised if you end up signing and returning 2 copies of a 15 page license agreement.

That was my post and thanks for thinking it was "pretty good". ;)

If you want direct links look at that same thread and look for my post with the header Direct Links are Here

>>>However, doesn't relate an actual experience of doing that and how it turned out.<<<

Actually it does - I tell a bit about Kevin and how long it took to get things worked out for release of Heavy Metal on video.

I think somewhere on that thread, or maybe another one, talked about personal examples as well. I could ramble on for days about this but there is always something that is overlooked - when you talk about a piece of music already recorded, on an album, that you want to use it is never as simple as saying "Can I use this?". I think the best kind of example/comparision I could use is yuo go out and buy a car - what do you look for when you buy a car? On the one hand you want a car that runs and maybe you want one that looks good as well. When it breaks down most people bring it someone. Likewise you have to get the car registered and in some states you have to get it inspected yearly and in others you have to get an emissions test done. Look under the hood - you see a lot of parts. So sort of think about obtaining music for a project in the same way.

"But what does all that mean then?"

All music was first written and in most, but not all, that music was published.

That music was performed. Perhaps live. Perhaps for an album. Perhaps on a TV show. Perhaps on a radio show. Perhaps for a film. And so on.

If the person who wrote that music is lucky it ends up an an album that is actually available for people to buy and if they are really lucky that music will be played on radio and will be sold in not only record stores but all the K-Marts/Wal-Marts of the world helping to put it on the "Top 10." And ditto for worldwide.

Ok - so now we have a basis. Now when you want to use this music you say "Can I use this music?" and this is when the fun starts.

There are basic fees for publishing. There are fees for performance. There are fees for mechanical use of a recording in a film/tv show/commercial. Beyond that you need to figure out the "where" because just because you get rights for your country does not mean you have the rights for another country. Likewise just because you may have "all media" rights in your country does not mean you have "all media" rights in another country. and even more things such as "Will you be releasing a soundtrack?", "Will you be doing a music video", "Will this be video only? if so how many copies do you expect to be made/sold?" and on it goes.

So back to the car - You don't always go to the same person to have your car's breaks fixed as you would to have your transmission repaired. The guy down the street probably can't register your car nor can the DMV give you an emissions test.

If you have the money you can go to a "Harry Fox" type place and pay them to do all the work for you. If you don't than you try and do each thing yourself and it is never that fast or easy. I have had some labels go off on me because I have tried to secure clearances in under 5 months. You wonder why some of these films take years to finish? Because things take time.

The outcome you want may not be the outcome you get. I come from both sides of the issue and the way things are right now it will get a lot more ugly beforeit gets better. My own personal slant and feeling is that you go to the artist first if you can. If they love the project you have a much better chance of getting labels and publishers to get involved and move things along a bit faster. To me it always has been about the person who makes that music. They hopefully are also the person who wrote that music. In a perfect world the people you pay to see and the people you pay to hear would actaully be getting your money, instead everyone else gets it. And that is why things like the topic being covered in this thread are not simple black and white issues...at least not for me.

"Well gee this is all fine and dandy but relate an actual experience of doing that and how it turned out."

Ok - I contacted a label and told them what I was doing and that I would like to use a song, possibly 2, from one of their artists. The president of the lable wrote be back saying he was a huge fan of indy films and would help out and I had to follow certian guidelines - the bands name with song titile and publishing info appeared in the films credits and I had to provide 5 copies of the complete film to the label (one for each member of the band and one for the label). That was it. I got all I needed in one pass and, more or less, for free.

Another example - I was editing a childrens instructional video. I needed music so I turned to people I knew. One label worked hard with me but because I was dealing with so many acts none really worked out. One act was very much interested and their management sent over the contracts - they wanted $5,000 for the mechanical, $500 for something else (Sorry this was maybe 10 years ago so the exact wording of the contracts and where the money went is not in front of me) and a set percentage of every tape sold. The producer asked me if it was worth it and I said for that kind of money is was not because this was an unkown act with one indy CD out and what they were asking for was outragous. I also said that if we really had that kind of moeny for one act I would glady go out and get someone, a name, who would do something for the project. Same project - another band. They had just recorded an EP and put it out theirselves. They said I could use anything I wanted as long as they got a copy. I ended up using all of that CD because of the difficulties with other acts. About 2 months after this project the band signed with a major label and the first release was this same EP. To this day no lawsuits, not threats - nothing. Why? Because the band gave us use of what they had paid to make (The Ep) and music they had written. Lawyers, managers, major lables be damned in that case.

But keep in mind that I come from varied backgrounds in this industry. Yeah I edit and yeah I direct but I also have a long history with muscians and working with them. I have heard time after time how much they want their music to get into films and tv. On their end they would be very much up for it. On your end you have to deal with labels and managers and publishing companies and more times than not - the artist will not even have any say or knowledge of it. A recent Disney film used a friend of mines music in the TV spots. I zipped off an email to him telling him and his response was "What? I had no idea. I'll have to get ahold of our label guy to find out." A few years ago when Harry Fox was still doing this sort of thing I did a random search and one of my best friends popped up. Keep in mind that Harry Fox claimed to represent all of the songs/music/artists in their database. I got ahold of my friend and said "Did you know that Harry Fox was representing your music for film and TV use?" and, as is the case more times than not, his response was a simple "No."

So - just keep trying and if you have the money pick up the phone and contact a place like Bug Music. Talk to them about what you are doing and what your budget is. They will galdy work with you, although they may not handle the exact music you were looking for. If you do continue on the DIY path just be patient and wait. Don't try to do it last minute - try starting a year before you need it.


Told you I could talk for days about this topic. ;)