Subject:2kb saved files, why?

Posted by: mitchell1001

Date:9/22/2003 4:02:07 AM

1) Every 4th or 5th MP3 I edit, I get a very short end file of exactly 2kb. Sometimes, it's after a lot of work (EQ, trimming, and long load/save times). It's frustrating when after all the work, these songs aren't properly 'saveable' and a 2kb file results. I've tried re-loading the MP3 and changing what is done to it, to see if there's a different end result, but no go.

Also, the files that this happens to are often good files that I've re-encoded using GoldWave so the files are, supposedly, good ones.

The edited files are most often dl audio book files of very low bitrate, which is why they need fixing. I re-sample to 64kbps which seems to work well. That is, through, experience, the least amount of bitrate one can work with and still maintain good, crisp audio but keep the sizes down. I don't go this low for music files, but audio book files are so very long that they run to minimums of 20megs in size due to length and there can be several files to a set. So it's extremely frustrating when dealing with them to run into this truncating. What causes this, pls? Is there anything that can be done to avoid this?

2) Also, there is one other aggravation. I can't seem to find out how to change this but when saving to 64kbps, SF saves to JS mode and 22050 freq, I believe it is. My CD burner app doesn't allow for anything less than 44100, so all files saved with anything other than 44100, I must then re-encode with GW. Too many steps and was hoping to avoid by saving directly to that freq in SF. Also, since GW defaults to S mode for all files, would like to keep that constant and save to it, rather than SC mode. So was hoping to know how to get SF to save to my specifications rather than to default ones.

This newbie appreciates any help. Thanks!

Subject:RE: 2kb saved files, why?

Reply by: MJhig

Date:9/22/2003 9:41:12 AM

Diana_Cda said;

"My CD burner app doesn't allow for anything less than 44100, so all files saved with anything other than 44100,"

This statement leads me to believe you are burning these files as an Audio CD. If that's the case all the editing and re-sampling you are doing is simply degrading the MP3 further since Audio CD format is entirely based on time not file size, e.g. 80 minutes of 16 bit 44.100 Hz *.cda (Compact Disk Audio).

You could burn to Data CD and file size would be an issue there but Data CD's can not be played on standard CD players.

MJ

Subject:RE: 2kb saved files, why?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:9/22/2003 6:36:34 PM

Does the 2kb file have a .CDA after it? and are named "Track01.CDA", "Track02.CDA"...etc? This is normal for an audio CD, and compressing the format will do you no good as mentioned. For an "audio CD" the format is always the same, thus allowing it to play in any CD player. That format is 44.1Khz/16bit audio, which means the file size is always the same as is designated by the length of the material, not the compression. As mentioned, you are only degrating the sound quality using the steps you currently are. You could compress the files and burn them to a "CDrom", but this is a totally different format than an "audio CD", and the CDrom may not play back on most CD players, unless it specifically says it supports "CDrom" and in your case "MP3". If you want your material to playback on every CD player, you have to burn it as an audio CD and there's nothing you can do about the file size.

Subject:RE: 2kb saved files, why?

Reply by: mboyd

Date:9/22/2003 7:27:39 PM

In addition to Rednroll's excellent advice, any chance those MP3s were saved as Variable Bit Rate (VBR)? If so, try saving them as Constant Bit Rate from GW.

I haven't used Sound Forge with MP3, so I could be way off track. I know that some software has trouble determining the duration of VBR MP3s.

Subject:RE: 2kb saved files, why?

Reply by: MJhig

Date:9/22/2003 8:27:15 PM

mboyd said;

"In addition to Rednroll's excellent advice"

mboyd,
Not to take anything away from Rednroll's advice, please explain to me why you don't consider mine to be "excellent" especially since it's the same (with a few different terms, Data CD vs. CD-ROM).

Am I not expressing myself in a manor that's understandable to the general public? Do I need help on my communication skills?

MJ

Subject:RE: 2kb saved files, why?

Reply by: mitchell1001

Date:9/23/2003 4:48:43 AM

Hi, and thanks guys for responding.

I wasn't clear enough. First off, yes, re-sampling, etc, degrades the MP3s. However, it's necessary to edit. I also save as backups to MP3s and the sizes are too large. I'm talking here only of the MP3s that are audio book ones and the sizes are enormous if I don't re-sample down. Also, as with many p2p issues, not everyone has good ripping apps. I have come across horrendous problems in some of these audio book files that aren't fixed until I fix, be it with GW or SF of combination of both when sound is particularly bad. Despite going through once or twice, the files _still_ come out better!

These 2kb files are a glitch in SF, though. They are completely truncated down to a few seconds and my goal in coming to this forum was to find out what was with these files to cause this problem. Half of them were edited already in GW but due to severe frequency problems, needed to fix in SF (p.s., any degradation here is totally, totally offset by the job that SF does via the EQ function!).

Also, with SF, unfortunately it seems to default to 22050 JS mode for 64kbps rather than allowing me 44100 S mode for it as GW does, so I use both to offset each other. Also, unfortunately, GW v4.26 which is my favourite (I tried latest version and it sucks big time, excuse my language) doesn't have a preview for the EQ so it has to pass through the whole decode/encode bit or whatever it does to apply the EQ settings (not like SF6 that allows a preview). And if I don't like how it sounds, can waste an hour, literally, waiting to find that out. So, I've come up with best solution for me in using both apps in tandem using the strengths of each where needed even if running the file through both. As I said, they're vocal files only and have no or very little music so the sound isn't critical like music files are.

So, re-sampling is to fix files as well as to bring MP3 size for backup purposes way down. We're talking usu. from 30 to 70 minute files here that are on average, 15 megs in size EACH minimum. Considering that each set contains as little as 3 of these and up to 30 files, if I didn't re-sample, I couldn't continue functioning for very long. As it is I'm having to do major burning jobs every few days to get things off the HDD.

Thanks and any help appreciated in figuring out why these 2kb file glitches are happening, and, how to change the default for 64kbps to 44100 and S mode. :oD

Subject:RE: 2kb saved files, why?

Reply by: mboyd

Date:9/23/2003 10:16:34 AM

"Not to take anything away from Rednroll's advice, please explain to me why you don't consider mine to be "excellent" especially since it's the same (with a few different terms, Data CD vs. CD-ROM). "

Your advice was at least as excellent. Unfortunately, I neglected to mention you in my post.

"Am I not expressing myself in a manor that's understandable to the general public? Do I need help on my communication skills?"

Perfectly understandable. No help needed. The mistake was completely mine. I realized after posting that I had forgotten to mention yours and probably should have ammended my post immediately. Or I should have simply said something along the lines of "In addition to the excellent advice already posted...". Apparently I am the one who needs help on my communication skills.

Sorry. I'm not trying to single anyone out here, and certainly not trying to rate the quality of anybody's advice over another's.

Subject:RE: 2kb saved files, why?

Reply by: Sonic

Date:9/23/2003 11:53:43 AM

Sounds like bogus fact chunks coming from somewhere. Try toggling the general pref to ignore/use them.

J.