OT-ish! : Basics on DV Production?

Grazie wrote on 9/19/2003, 1:53 AM
Now then, I love V4 . . . My basic problem is my lacking in knowledge in the basics of what and how I manipulate DV video in general. This is a too massive a subject to cover here, this I understand. But, but, but . .. . what I'd like to have is some form of "flow-diagram" which shows the relationship between:

1 - Formats: DV-AVI, Uncomped-Avi, . . and all the other formats

2 - Alpha Channels and its cousins

3 - Layering and its relationship to 2 above

4 - RGB and HUffvys, fluffies or whatever etc etc

5 - Pixel Ratios and relationships to each other e.g. NTSC and PAL

There are many other "topics"

Yes I can, and do bury my head in a "glossary" and bone up on the many and varied disparate items. But, its a bit like being shown and told that here is a "fuse" for the car; what it does; how it is constructed and where it fits in the car and then being told "Now you can go ahead and drive!" - yeah?

Yes, I know I can, and often do, read the manual. This has been terrific. I know masses about using V4. But, but, but . . .. this shows me how to use V4 . . it may also give me "clues" as to what is going on under the bonnet/hood of this Rolls Royce of NLE-ing software. But they are only "clues" - it doesn't knock home for me how the whole DV-thing hangs together. I don't know about you, but I find this quite frustrating and stops me from realising my own potential. I'm willing to learn - I think I may have broken through the "Oohh isn't that good!" barrier. Now I want the next stage . . reasonable - yes?

If I'm to progress and to really get a fundamental understanding of DV manipulation, I need a straightforward almost diagrammatic depiction of what is happening.

I could envisage a V4 presentation or PowerPoint or something like this on DVD to give me a personal tutor for these matters.

My suggestion would be for some of the advanced pros here and SoFo/Sony Vegas developers to produce this. I'd buy one! The advantages for us users is self evident. The advantages for new adopters to this wonderful software, would be a real boon. I've seen the same or similar questions being asked here. I really don't have a problem with this - really. And I'm glad to part of a community that is out there trying to help newbies. - However, the latest threads that have - IMHO - slightly avoided the fundamental and basic issue. I and others are bereft of the fundamentals of DV work. I've thought long and hard about writing this, and again it has been the most recent "discussions" that have driven me to put finger to keyboard . . . .

Am I making any sense? - Apologies for banging on so much, I had to get it down.

Any thoughts? Any suggestions for ways forward.

Grazie

Comments

TomG wrote on 9/19/2003, 4:13 AM
Hi Grazie... I agree with you. I also would be willing to pay for the information you have described. I agree that most printed/reference material is very good at explaining the "how-to" but this is usually at the very specific level. It would be of great help to see a "big picture" overview explaining the general flow and "why" of the DV process. If I could see (and understand) this, I'm sure my DV knowledge would skyrocket. I'm not sure if DSEs book ever made it to market, but I was hoping that he may have included some of this stuff there. Has anyone received it yet? Was it worth the wait?

TomG
Grazie wrote on 9/19/2003, 5:32 AM
TomG - Thanks. I wasn't sure I was making myself understood . . . but, this is something that has been bugging me for sometime now. It's only now where I find I have enough "confidence" to admit here to my shortcomings and not feel I'm gonna get slapped wrists for exhibiting my lack of knowledge . . d'yer see what I mean?

"If I could see (and understand) this, I'm sure my DV knowledge would skyrocket. " - Absolutely! - Can't agree with you more. . . . I really feel there is a need for a DVD/CD on something like the " x x x for Dummies" series of books - yeah? - I've read the one they did on NLE and yes very informative it was too. But even still it did get down and dirty with the mechanics of FCP or PRemmi. It also took to task the way to video . .very useful. But, again, I need, as you say "The Big Picture" on all of this - yeah?

Ironic that You/we/I are learning to cope with a method of media production that inherent within it IS the possible way of putting this across! - Yeah!

I hope we get some more feedback on this - I really do feel strongly that this area of learning is presently product-driven. Okay, this sells product and achieves customer service - this IS a good thing. I really don't have both the time or inclination to pack myself off to college to bone up on something that I could learn in the quietness of my own studio. - Ho, I'm prepared for some of our forum colleagues here to say, "Hmmph! If that's your attitude, then go stew! Go boil yer head! I had to go to film school/college . . you can go away and do the same" - well . . . . Distance Learning; DV packs and DVD tutes will do me just fine. Plus I need a road map of the whole shebang - yeah?

Yes I can trawl through the web and "stitch" together my own "how to's" - however I'm now at a stage which I really need all the bits of the DV-puzzle being assembled.

Tom - again thanks for the feedback. I was in two minds whether to write this or not. I have been a little "shy" in sharing my incompetence's with so many pros on this board . . . .

. . and again if yer don't ask . . yer don't get!!!

Grazie
Stiffler wrote on 9/19/2003, 5:34 AM
Hay Grazie,

Your post makes perfect sense! I'm glad you asked about what you want to know, and I'm really looking forward to the experts that will answer your post! (I want to know, too).

Jon

PS: I do have a question for you about your Dell...can you give me a jingle?

(edited).com

EDIT: Ohhhh....I was going to suggest a 'Vegas for Dummies' book. :)
Grazie wrote on 9/19/2003, 5:44 AM
Stiffy - I'm on the case as we speak - yeah?

Look, there are some real "nasty" type out there. GO and edit your email address NOW, to something like mynameatbigbucksdotcom - this'll mean, I think no web trawling troll can use your email - yeah? Better still, now I have yer email go and remove it from these 'ere parts - yeah?

Or if you wanna ask it here, make a separate post - you never know it may help others . . . .

Grazie
johnmeyer wrote on 9/19/2003, 10:04 AM
Grazie,

I think the kind of things you are looking for are going to be found in at least two places:

Training Courses
Books

A good training course, taught by someone that has spent their lifetime in and around video editing would give you the opportunity, during the breaks as well as during class, to ask all sorts of questions.

The book might even be better, because authors take months working out their explanations. Unfortunately, I don't have any specific books to recommend. I've been given several by various authors, but I confess that I haven't read them.

I would recommend searching the Book section of Amazon. I just typed "DV Video" in the Amazon search engine (in their Book section, so as not to get 10,000 results from their video camera store), and got seven results. Here they are:

Amazon DV Books
Grazie wrote on 9/19/2003, 10:13 AM
Thanks JM - G
DGrob wrote on 9/19/2003, 11:11 AM
Check out the last couple of days on the DMN "Sony Vegas" forum. I just canceled my outstanding Amazon order for DSE's book from last March and reordered with shipping in 24 hours off their posts. The reviews are extremely positive. http://www.cmpbooks.com

DGrob
Grazie wrote on 9/19/2003, 11:37 AM
Yes, I've been there and yes I've been reading people's wishes to having the book - You appear to have gone one stage further. Good tip.

I've also got a mate who has been using the DSE DVDs - says they ar great too.

How's the PTTing Grobie, me boyo??! No probs here since I power managed m DellBoy to "ALWAYS ON" ! Amazing, simple as that eh?

Grazie
DGrob wrote on 9/19/2003, 12:11 PM
Grazie: 'Way excited about the book. Ho boy oh boy.

Yeah, I've heard great stuff about the DVDs. Probably have to play my Santa-card to make it fly at my house.

PTT has been going ok with my fangui, undocked, copy to C, etc., etc. workaround. Still can't PTT from timeline. Looking at an laptop upgrade right now. Gonna add DVDA and start nosing around with that. By the by, you happy with your daisy-chained external drives? I'm going to a second 200 gigs via firewire. You played with USB2 yet?

Caught your "dancing-cat-carpool" video off a post here the other day. Very, very funny. Laughed out loud and replayed about 6 times.

DGrobie

simojo wrote on 9/19/2003, 12:20 PM
Grazie--
FWIW, I found Richard Harrington's book "Photoshop for Non Linear Editors" to be an extremely well-written book and possibly relevant to what you want. Although it is (obviously) very specific to Photoshop, he covers some of the material you talk about. He also keeps the NLE references very generic until the last chapter, which is specific for various NLE's, including a short section on Vegas. He covers your question 5 in detail, and 2, 3, 4 in less detail. I hate to recommend you spend hard-earned money on something that you may not like, but it was a gem for me.

I think part of the reason that Photoshop is good to study is that it's arguably the most advanced tool for you're looking for for 2,3, and 5 (except it's for stills, not video). Photoshop users have covered a lot of these questions years ago, so maybe other PS books would be useful for you as well. I find that as I learn PS, it explains a lot of my NLE questions.

I'll also echo DGrob and say that all the CMP books have been helpful for my learning some theory, especially PS for NLE (Harrington), Lighting (Jackman), Color Correction (Hullfish), and Sound (Rose). Since I'm waiting for Spot's book still, I figure if it's from CMP it must be good.

Hope that helps.
--John
Grazie wrote on 9/19/2003, 12:40 PM
simojo - Too kind. Maybe I need to do my own "Wall Chart" similar to that which I created for my Physics and Chemistry swotting I did for my finals at school . . . .

Grazie
TrekNW wrote on 9/19/2003, 8:56 PM
I in the same boat...

As a(nother) Pinnacle Studio 8 refugee, I have a grip on the basics but find the vegas user interface and manual less than totally intuitive. I printed and browsed the manual, but it's more a reference than a tutorial.

The Screenblast Movie Studio manual, however, is a lot closer to a tutorial and gives a lot of the background and terminology explanations that you (and I) were looking for.

Since Screenblast is a "light" version of Vegas, the UI and commands are similar. Taking this approach has really helped get me up to speed.

Regards,
Tim
MyST wrote on 9/19/2003, 9:36 PM
Grazie, would something like this help? Or am I not understanding your posts correctly.

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0937404853/ref=pd_sim_dp_3/701-8458395-9089961

Seems to be a technical book on non-linear editing.

M
zcus wrote on 9/19/2003, 9:42 PM

http://www.adamwilt.com/DV.html

or

dv.com
swarrine wrote on 9/19/2003, 9:56 PM
March yourself down to the nearest Public Access Station. Take courses. Maybe not the latest equipment, but the principles will be there. Hopefully, they will tell you the most important thing - it is all about the story, not about the toys. (note: the toys are fun though!)