Is Cinestream even considered useful by todays standards? I thought it was basically v2.0 of EditDV from 1998.

>> Is Cinestream even considered useful by todays standards?

Dependend on what you plan to do: Yes.

But I did the switch from CineStream to Vegas two years ago and never even touched CineStream then. CineStream support seems to be frozen for quite a while now. I will not look back. For me it's dead. Vegas' the better way to go ;-)

>> I thought it was basically v2.0 of EditDV from 1998.

CineStream is kind of EditDV 3.0 from 2001 (or maybe 2000). Multiple Timelines (this is what Nesting is called in CineStream) was added in the upgrade from EditDV 2 to CineStream 3.

Marco

I'd kind of though the idea of nested timelines would be useful but why not just render the sequence out?

At least that way if you loose the project you've still got the clip with all the work you've done on it plus VV (or whetever) doesn't need to render the same thing multiple times assuming you have multiple instances of it in the project.

Of course I could have totally missed something here.

Nested timelines indeed will be a very sought after feature - this has been mentioned many times, so I'm sure the message has been received.

Hmmm - I see your glass is still half empty, Zippy - looking forward to when you post about something in Vegas that you LIKE.

In reply to farss's question, rendering would create a static sequence. Nesting on the otherhand, gives you the ability to tweek or edit the sequence and review the results in the main project in real time.(or close to it).

v

Hm,
fair point, I guess it depends on what you're working with.

I had thought it'd be handy for long projects which can be split into sections but in that case I just render each one as I'm happy with it. I find that stops me from forever fiddling with each bit, being a perfectionist I never really finish anything.

But now that I think the issue over again I can see lots of applications where nested sequences would make a lot of sense.

Zippy is obviously a shill for another developer---What he does is come in here constantly to point out the deficiencies of Vegas. He has never posted a question, given advice, traded information etc. Anyhow, the buffoon entertains me so I dont think I will ignore him.

Premiere Pro has implemented true nested sequences. Drag them onto the timeline, double-click and you are editing the sequence. That's nice. Much better than the Avid scheme that lets you build individual sequences and edit them individually within a single project.

Given that, Vegas is still the champ but it would sure be nice to have this feature built into the next version.

Sony: Are you listening? When can we expect Vegas 5.0 (or even 4.5)?

To keep with Vegas ideology, sequences could be implemented by means of routing groups of video layers/tracks to 'video bus', then being able to display that 'video bus' on timeline as additional track. All routed groups/buses could be arranged/sequenced (this is where sequencing comes into play) and additional FX can be applied.

So it's still one timeline to work with but multiple timelines in essense.

Although I see where this could become complicated.

Remind me again why Vegas is "still the champ" over Avid or Premiere?

DELETED

Maybe it is time for you to switch to Avid or Premiere...let the folks on their forums answer your tirades over simple issues that one can find an answer for if you read the tutorials...:-)

Zippy IS an expert at one topic. He said so himself:

"...a pain in the arss"

>>Remind me again why Vegas is "still the champ" over Avid or Premiere?

For me it is ease of use and stability. Vegas is way more intuitive than Avid which is really designed software-wise for keyboard based editing. I'm basically a drag and drop guy so Vegas is just a better choice. If you prefer keyboard editing then Avid is pretty darn good and it is stable.

I haven't had that much time with Premiere Pro but I spent way more time than I want to remember with Premiere 6.0. It was not stable. Premiere Pro probably will be since it is a mostly new app. But Vegas audio editing is, for me at least, superior to Pro. I just like the Vegas rubberbanding versus the Pro's automation which is admittedly a pretty neat scheme. And I think that an accomplished Vegas editor will beat an accomplished Premiere Pro editor in building videos that are within the capabilities of both systems. Time will tell on that one. Just my gut feel. And I think that Vegas has Pro beat in terms of RT performance. The votes are certainly not in on that one yet either.

Given all of that, Pro is a pretty good program and I am hopeful that Sony will study it hard and do what Adobe did to Sonic Foundry and Avid: steal the good ideas from your competitors and try to leap frog them. That shouldn't be too hard for Vegas. I would upgrade to 5.0 (or 4.x) just to get nested sequences.

"... why Vegas is "still the champ" ... over Premiere:

Because in Vegas working in the timeline there are no latencies.
Because Vegas offers more direct ways to edit.
Because Vegas has much superior sound facilities.
Because Vegas has much superior compositing facilities.
Because Vegas scripting facilities makes it much more flexible.
Because Vegas realtime-preview is more powerful.
Because SoFo DV-codec is better than MC, PS oder MS-DV.

Missed anything?

Well, of course a lot. But do you really think I have so much time left to list ALL of the Vegas advantages? ;-)

Marco

What is rubberbanding? How does it compare to automation?

I think that Adobe has a few potential niceties-which I think they'd readily sue to protect. I don't know how much of it works in P-pro.

Photoshop "Actions" are great and very easy to work with. You can also automate them as well as saving them to a file.

I like the fact that checkboxes respond to a mouse rollover. You can roll the mouse down a line of checkboxes to toggle them. Macromedia used this for a while but abandoned them-probably due to a lawsuit from Adobe. The two companies sue each other a lot.

Really, this started as a response to the scripting point above. "Actions" are very easy to use by anyone. Very nice and you don't have to wait for a skilled person to come up with a script.

Rob Mack

Wouldn't "Takes" work for this purpose?

Takes? - I like the way Vegas handles Takes very much. But - no, this is a quite different to timeline nesting.

Marco

------me again why Vegas is "still the champ" over Avid or Premiere?

Zippy no one applicatin is the champ to all,,, Avid is champ to countless editors all over the world, Premier has its fans and final cut pro is considered great by many,,,, Vegas has its fans,

why not try another program instead of being so negative (a pea brain)in this forum,possibly you will become an Avid fan or maybe Windows movie maker is more your speed,, only you know which software is the best.

Time to sing AGAIN. Please join in:

Zippy's a doo dah, Zippy all day
Trolls the board and then we jump in the fray
Plenty of comments, coming our way
Zippy's a doo dah, Zippy all day

And this bit of wisdom comes from a self-described "know-it-all smartass"


> Zippy IS an expert at one topic. He said so himself: "...a pain in the arss"