Premiere Pro "THE FINAL TRIAL"

juan2003 wrote on 8/31/2003, 1:37 AM
..... HERE THE "NEWS" FEATURES OF PREMIERE PRO THAN VEGAS HAD FROM THE VERSION 2.0 OR 3.0
........(the "NEWS" features of Premiere, Vegas has it from version 2.0 OR 3.0, do you REMEMBER IT?)

........ouch!! darling Premiere Pro (Version 7.0)!; Vegas 4.0 has won you! from the ........................VERSION 3.0.

.........PLEASE READ ON AND TELL US YOUR OPINION OR VIEWPOINT ABOUT ..............................................................THIS TOPIC
...................................................................................................Juan Pastor (Pastor is my ......................................................................................................last..name,do not confuse)
...................................................................................................from Lima, Peru


.....................................NEW FEATURE ON PREMIERE PRO COMPARED WITH VEGAS 3.0 OR 4.0)

..Render less, edit more

...Real-time editing

...Full-resolution frames (FEATURE FRPM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
See precisely how your video will look with every edit. Full-resolution results play back in real time on NTSC, PAL, or VGA monitors.

....Real-time effects (FEATURE FROM VEGAS 4.0)
Choose from hundreds of real-time video and audio effects to make your production stand above the competition.

...Real-time motion paths (FEATURE FROM VEGAS 3.0)
Create more fluid and precise motion paths with keyframable parameters and built-in, subpixel positioning.

...Real-time color correction (FEATURE FROM VEGAS VIDEO 2.0 OR 3.0)
Get immediate feedback while adjusting hue, saturation, lightness, and more with real-time color correction tools.

...Real-time titles (I DONT KNOW)
Create broadcast-quality titles with real-time, full-resolution displays.



...Elegantly redesigned user interface (VERY SNOB AND NICE )

...Multiple, nestable timelines (NEW ON PREMIERE PRO. I THINK SO)
Take advantage of multiple, nestable timelines to experiment more freely and manage complex projects more efficiently.

...Customizable keyboard shortcuts (FROM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
Customize keyboard shortcuts to fit your editing style. Use default presets, leverage industry-standard shortcuts, or create your own. Export custom sets to share with colleagues.

...Intuitive timeline editing functionality (FROM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
Lift, extract, insert, and overlay with simple keystroke modifiers.

..Enhanced Audio Mixer (FROM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
Record audio directly to the timeline, apply audio effects to an entire track, submix tracks, and more with the enhanced Audio Mixer.

...Keyframable effect parameters (NEW FEATURE)
Set different keyframes for individual parameters of the effects you apply with the revamped Effect Controls window, which looks and works like the one in Adobe® After Effects® software.

...Custom timeline views ( I DONT KNOW )
Dynamically adjust audio and video track heights, and choose alternate thumbnail viewing options on a track-by-track basis.

...Enhanced interactive Project window (NEW FEATURE)
Use the interactive Project window to adjust in and out points, create custom columns with fields or checkboxes, and more. Choose the List view to see file details displayed alongside a thumbnail, or choose the Storyboard view to see media presented in an orderly grid.

...Better media management (I DONT KNOW)
Link and unlink media dynamically, create custom columns, adjust capture settings on a clip-by-clip basis, batch capture directly from the Project window, and more.

...Independent Trim window ( FROM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
Gain precise control over ripple, roll, slip, and slide edits using the Trim window, which now opens separately and delivers real-time feedback.

...Redesigned Monitor window (I DONT KNOW)
See side-by-side Source and Program views in the Monitor window, which presents familiar tools in a sleek new design that puts more controls at your fingertips.

....Dockable palettes (FORM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
Easily organize your workspace with dockable palettes that let you quickly navigate between editing functions.

...Sophisticated title designer (NEW FEATURE)
Work with the built-in Adobe Title Designer plus 90 Adobe fonts to easily create typographically sophisticated title designs.

...Floating tool palette (FROM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
Access the floating tool palette from any timeline to minimize tool changes as you’re editing clips.

...Enhanced DV capture (NEW AND I DONT KNOW)
Capture a tape in separate clips in one step using the new scene detection feature.



...Advanced color control

...Native YUV processing (NEW FEATUERE)
Preserve the color values of original source footage and improve bandwidth efficiency by avoiding color conversions thanks to native support for YUV processing.

..Advanced color correction (FROM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
Use color correction tools to adjust hue, saturation, and lightness for highlights, midtones, and shadows; replace a color throughout a clip with a single selection; and more.

...Waveforms and vectorscopes (FROM VEGAS 4.0, VEGAS WAS THE FIRST ON HAD IT)
Monitor data readouts with built-in waveforms and vectorscopes to ensure your clips share a common color spectrum and fall within legal broadcast limits.



...Enhanced audio editing

...Subframe sample-level control (NEW FEATURE)
Adjust audio clips with the precision of up to 1/96,000 of a second to produce more precise L-cuts or eliminate small pops, crackles, and other audio problems.

...5.1 surround sound (FROM VEGAS 4.0)
Create and manipulate multichannel audio to produce true surround sound and other richly layered audio experiences.

...VST plug-in support (NEW FEATURE)
Work with advanced audio filters thanks to support for the industry-standard VST plug-in architecture. Seventeen VST plug-ins are included to enhance your audio-filtering experience.

...Voice-over recording (I DONT KNOW)
Watch your sequence and easily record a voice-over narration track to your active timeline.

...Support for high-end audio files (I DONT KNOW)
Import, edit, and export high-quality 24-bit, 96kHz audio files.

.....Be open, be integrated

...Optimized performance (NEW FEATURE)
....Windows XP speed advantage
Make the most of multiple processors, advanced multithreading technology, and hyperthreading support on the latest Intel® Pentium® based Windows® XP systems.

..Real-time response (FROM VEGAS 3.0)
Get immediate feedback during effect editing and manipulation thanks to Pentium based optimizations built into Adobe Premiere® Pro.



..Scalable editing platform (I DONT KNOW)

..Standard definition/high definition support
Import, edit, and deliver HD or SD productions using certified OEM hardware with Adobe Premiere Pro. Encode HD Windows Media™ 9 Series content using the built-in Adobe Media Encoder.

...ASIO support (I DONT KNOW)
Assign multiple input/output ports for recording and playback with support for ASIO hardware cards. Integrate with existing studios and connect to audio editing systems like Digidesign Pro Tools.

...AAF support (I DONT KNOW)
Exchange content and metadata across platforms and between other high-end editing systems and applications thanks to support for Advanced Authoring Format (AAF), a superset of OMF.

...Third-party hardware support (NEW FEATURE)
Enjoy extensive hardware support and an open architecture that let you work with everything from an impressive list of DVCAM gear to the latest video decks and camcorders to third-party hardware, including SD and HD boards.



...Unprecedented Adobe integration

...Adobe After Effects integration (NEW FEATURE)
Import Adobe Premiere Pro projects directly into the Adobe After Effects timeline with video and audio arranged as layers. Embed project-linked After Effects clips to edit in Adobe Premiere Pro.

...Support for Adobe Photoshop layers (NEW FEATURE)
Import layered Photoshop® files as a single flattened file or import the files as a sequence with each layer arranged on a separate video track.

...Adobe Audition™ integration ( FROM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0 INTEGRATED WITH SOUND FORGE)
Import high-quality audio files from Adobe Audition™ software for use in your video productions.

...Adobe Encore™ DVD integration (FROM VEGAS 4.0 INTEGRATED WITH DVD ARCHITECT 1.0)
Export AVI and MPEG-2 files to Adobe Encore™ DVD software to author multilanguage DVDs with interactive menus and multiple audio and subtitle tracks. Timeline markers are recognized as chapter points.

...Import with confidence, export with ease

...Flexible import capabilities

....Extensive video format support (FROM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
Import and work with MPEG-1, MPEG-2, DV, AVI, Windows Media 9 Series, and QuickTime formats.

...Comprehensive audio format support (FROM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
Import and work with WAV, WMA, MP3, and AIFF as well as audio-only AVI and QuickTime formats.

...Still-image and sequence file support (FROM VEGAS VIDEO 3.0)
Work with AI, AI sequence, PSD, PSD sequence, JPEG, TGA, TGA sequence, TIFF, TIFF sequence, PCX, BMP, and BMP sequence files.



....Extensive export options

...Support for leading video media (FROM VEGAS 4.0)
Produce video and audio content for the leading delivery media: broadcast formats, DV, DVD, CD, VCD, SVCD, and the Web. Output AAF files for sharing with other professional editing systems.

...Direct to DVD (FROM VEGAS 4.0 EXPORTING TO DVD ARCHITECT 1.0)
Export Adobe Premiere Pro projects directly to DVD for distribution of high-quality MPEG-2 content.
..................................................................................................................................................................................................



..........ouch!! darling Premiere Pro (Version 7.0)!; Vegas 4.0 has won you! from the VERSION 3.0.

Comments

filmy wrote on 8/31/2003, 3:51 PM
As the resident Premiere user I have to say a lot of this has been covered in these threads before. Many of the things mentioned are not "new" to Premiere Pro, they may be improved upon with this release, but certianly not new. (The title designer comes to mind - this was "new" with version 6.5, and what PPRO has might be better I do not know)

Overall, and I have said this before, VV is still a new app and as such makes more radical changes release to release. Premiere has been around the block and has a solid user base with specific needs, many which have been addressed with plug-ins. For example higher end systems have had color correction built in, Premiere has had Vixen and Color Finese as plug-ins. VV introduced it "built in" as did FCP and some other NLE's. I am not so sure VV was the "first" NLE to have it however. Perhaps it was the first NLE at that price point to have that type of built in CC. At the time Premiere had 6.5 people were going on about Premiere not having it yet and I was one of the people who said "Wait until version 7 and see." Now people are saying "They are copying VV." I supose when/if VV allows for things that Premiere has had for years, such as hardware support and full EDL support, all of you, being the fair minded NLE users you are, will in unison say "Why is VV trying to be like Premiere?"

Bottom line - every single NLE offers something and every single piece of software has some sort of marketing. Very few, if any, go out there and say things like "We suck, but please buy our software!" Very few go out there and say "We know we are the new kid on the block and AVid, Premiere, Discreet and ablut a hundred others have done this but please try our NLE too." All I see Premiere doing is saying what PPRO offers including what is new and what is improved. I see VV doing the same. I see Avid doing that. I see every software release do that. Adobe has never been one to put out new versions every other day like other companies do...so given that why is everyone so snot nosed that Premiere released their new version when VV released version 4 and about 4 updates/big fixes before this? (I have jokingly said that SoFo was trying to "rush out" their NLE before Adobe. This was only said in jest because of VV users having the attitude of Adobe not having what VV 4 has) And given that PPRO is a complete re-write for only Windows XP is anyone really surprised it has new features or new features that are aimed at the Windows OS? More directly XP? I'm not. I'm happy to see it. Same way I will be happy to see the next version of VV.

In anycase - a lot of what juan2003 posted and implied that VV had before Premiere Pro is not fully true. But it would take a Premiere user to point that out and to notice it. I know that SPOT speaks highly of PPRO thus far and many people around these parts respect what he says - so don't take my workd for it, mainly because as far a PPRO goes you can't as I have not used it yet. But I have I used Premiere since version 4 and have seen major improvments between then and version 6.5 and I don't expect to see any less with version 7...er, Premiere Pro. Like wise I have also seen major changes between VV 2 and VV 4 and I hope to see more with VV 5.
InterceptPoint wrote on 8/31/2003, 6:30 PM
Well I am very much an amateur compared to the real players on this forum but I do edit with Vegas and I did buy Premiere Pro. I just couldn't resist that $199 upgrade price from 6.0 and, to tell you the truth, I was very curious to see how much of Avid Xpress DV and Vegas 4.0 had been incorporated by Adobe into the new version of Premiere.

I put that question to an Adobe guy at SIGGRAPH in San Diego a month or so ago. His answer was the correct one if you work for Adobe: "Adobe listens to it's customers". Given that, Premiere Pro has incorporated some of the best of Avid and Vegas and looks like a good product to me. Not good enough to make me leave Vegas but still pretty darn good. The use of nested sequences is, I believe, revolutionary and should be incorporated in Vegas 5.0. It is a sweet scheme, better than Avid's use of Sequences but similar and I think it will have to be copied by the industry, including Vegas, if they want to keep up.

On the other hand, my first test of it running an NTSC monitor via Firewire with a simple captured clip and an imported .mp3 file showed performance problems that I have never seen with Vegas. There may be some tweaks that are needed and it was, unlike Vegas, running the timeline in the Monitor Window Program View at the same time but I am betting that Premiere will not keep up with Vegas as a software only realtime editor. Time will tell.

Just my $0.02
InterceptPoint
taliesin wrote on 8/31/2003, 7:27 PM
>> The use of nested sequences is, I believe, revolutionary

Don't think so. Take a look into CineStream 3. Nested sequences/multiple timelines works like a charm here for many years now.
And - after this feature was given to CineStream some of the CineStream programmers went to Adobe ...

Marco
InterceptPoint wrote on 8/31/2003, 8:24 PM
>>Don't think so.

I told you I was an amateur. I'm sure you are right but it is such a good idea that you would have thought that everyone would have jumped on it. I suppose it could be a programmer's nightmare but I think Vegas will have to do it to keep up,

Wishful thinking maybe. I hope not.
BillyBoy wrote on 8/31/2003, 8:39 PM
Begin here.

A troll is a troll is a troll.

Why do people keep starting threads about Premiere and other editors in the Vegas forum?

Return to start.

InterceptPoint wrote on 8/31/2003, 8:56 PM
>>Why do people keep starting threads about Premiere and other editors in the Vegas forum?

That's a legit question but I think I have at least one or two answers.

I think it is because we all love Vegas and when we see a really great feature in a competitive program we want to encourage Sony to see what they can do to implement it in the next upgrade.

In this case, I think the idea of nested sequences that I saw for the first time in Vegas and Taliesin reports is also in CineStream 3 is an important idea that the Vegas community should know about. And even more important - it is something that Sony should know about and they should know that their Vegas customers want it (assuming they do.)

In general, the reason for discussing competitive products in this forum is simply self preservation. There is nobody better qualified to judge the relative merits of Vegas 4.0 versus other NLE software than the people on this forum. I have to assume that Sony reads what is written here and at least some of it sinks in. If Vegas fails to mature and match the marketplace feature-wise then it will go the way of Wordstar and Quattro Pro. I don't want that to happen. You have to believe that Sony doesn't want that to happen either.
InterceptPoint wrote on 8/31/2003, 8:57 PM
>>I saw for the first time in Vegas

Make that for the first time in Premiere Pro. My wishful thinking is getting ahead of me.
frazerb wrote on 9/1/2003, 7:23 PM
I am a Premiere 6.5 user who is deciding whether to upgrade to Premiere Pro or switch to Vegas. So, I like the comparison threads from people who have used both.
filmy wrote on 9/1/2003, 8:21 PM
Adobe really took the concept of nesting from After Effects, which has had that feature for a while. I think it probably came from the idea that people who used AE used many many layers to build animations or title sequences and needed something to be easy to use in order to move an entire "frame" around with all of it's layers intact. On the editing side it probably wasn't thoguth of, or asked for, because - and this is an important issue rarely brought up - Premiere was around when offline was very common. You really didn't have the need to add layers and layers of effects and color correction to an offline edit. Overall editors worried more about being editors and less about doing it all. You would hire someone to create a title sequence. Hire someone else to do the timing/color correction. Hire someone else to create the effect shots. And hire someone else to do post production audio supervision - and all that entails. (ie - sound editing, foley, adr, mixing, etc)

So anyway - now because of many factors such as cheap hard drives, cheap memory, 'cheap' video in the form of mini-dv and other items the good 'ole punk attitude of DIY applies to film making more than ever. Dave Markey be damned! So nesting makes more sense because now people can take a piece of software and not only edit but also add effects, color correct, add film look, crop, zoom , rotate and a zillion other things on a shot by shot basis - and also do all the audio at the same time. Now that you have spent 79 hours making the one shot perfect and you decide you want to move it 5 minutes later in the film, or in the sequence - with all elements in perfect sync - well, nesting makes wonderful sense.

Times change and good software changes to meet the demands of, not only the times, but also of the users. I think the same can be said for editors - they need to stay current with what is out there and find something they can work with that still maintains their needs. On the other hand if I am a producer and want to hire someone to edit I want an editor who can edit and who is good. How they get to the final product I don't care as long as they can do it on time, on budget and well.
InterceptPoint wrote on 9/1/2003, 11:00 PM
Filmy: Well Stated.
VIDEOGRAM wrote on 9/2/2003, 7:57 AM
Hi Frazerb,

I have both. I received Prem Pro last week.
Don't get me wrong: VEGAS 4 ROCKS! But I have so many projects from Premiere that I had to upgrade. I use V4 when I need a little more compositing (TV commercials ...). I use Prem Pro for longer projects (30 minutes shows ...) that don't require much compositing.

Both have their +++ and ---.

VEGAS has better transitions, ability to produce soft wipes and edges, add shadows and glows on tracks. But VEGAS needs more rendering time to produce the final .avi. Also, the titler is deficient, IMHO.

PREM PRO lacks the ability to do soft wipes. I don't use nesting so I can't evaluate this new feature. The titler is AWESOME! Rendering time for final export is fast.

I will continue to play with both to discover other features.
InterceptPoint wrote on 9/2/2003, 9:01 AM
Another big advantage that Vegas has over Premiere Pro is the ability to make changes "on the fly" without stopping the playback of the timeline.

Once you get used to this as I'm sure all Vegas users do, you really notice that Premiere Pro is not in the same league in this category. Even saving on the fly, which is new to Premiere, will cause a glitch in the playback on my system. Moving a clip will halt it and you have to restart the playback. Vegas has a huge advantage in this area. As a result, tweaking in Vegas is much much easier than it is in Premiere.
vitalforce2 wrote on 9/2/2003, 12:28 PM
Don't forget the audio power. 50% of the perception of a good movie or presentation is the sound. Vegas began as an audio editor and still has matchless capabilities, mainly (IMHO) due to the fact that Sound Forge carved out a niche of the audio market on a par with what Premiere did in the video market.

Alas, BillyBoy is absolutely right, we are really supposed to be talking about things like, how fine a tweak should be made when adjusting the color of two mismatched clips.
filmy wrote on 9/2/2003, 4:14 PM
>>> Don't forget the audio power.<<<

The main reason I ever looked at VV was because I used Sound Forge and loved it. I used Cool Edit Pro briefly because it had multi track mixing so when VA/VV came out I looked into it. Having said that one of my big wish for things on the audio side is to have automated mixing via the mixer - as you output. Premiere has had this and 6.5 added automated mixing. I used an Amiga with Studio 16 for mixing for many years and that not only had automated mixing, it had the ability to tie into an external midi equiped mixer and gave over to that for control.

>>>Alas, BillyBoy is absolutely right, we are really supposed to be talking about things like, how fine a tweak should be made when adjusting the color of two mismatched clips.<<<

Well I dunno - this was a thread about how VV was light years ahead of Premiere Pro before there even was a Premiere Pro. (Given that same thought pattern I could say that the Amiga with the Studio 16 was light years ahead of Windows and SoFo on the audio front.) This subtopic was about nesting as it related to editing. Color Correction is another whole sub topic in itself, but than again BB is another whole topic as well. ;)

"I'm an Editor Jim! Not a damn Colorist!" he he.
bobojones wrote on 9/2/2003, 5:13 PM
... and a nag is a nag is a nag.

> A troll is a troll is a troll.
vitalforces wrote on 9/2/2003, 10:19 PM
To filmy: Good point. I overstated myself, a habit my wife still can't break me of, after 25 years.


To BJ-M: Hey you. Careful we don't slap you, bang, on a donkey and make you ride till it squeaks....
juan2003 wrote on 9/2/2003, 10:25 PM
FINE... COOL!!

Many replies was written about the topic (Premiere Pro "THE FINAL TRIAL")..

well, you have the final decision, between Vegas 4.0 and Premiere Pro...

you know how to use it !! (Vegas or Premiere)

...........I am very grateful with everybody :)

........................................................Luck with your new projects!!

..........................................................................Juan

Erni wrote on 9/2/2003, 11:24 PM
Ok, if millions of flyes eat shit...
PAW wrote on 9/3/2003, 2:31 PM
BJ M

Not the last word, just the frist round

The name video has only recently been dropped from Vegas

Looks pretty close to me based on phrases only


http://google-fight.com/cgi-bin/compare.pl?q1=adobe+premiere&q2=video+vegas&B1=Make+a+fight%21&compare=1&langue=us


Ding, Ding - Round 3

Ali always used to loose rounds against the ropes early in the fight and he was voted sportsman of the millenium

:-)

BJ_M wrote on 9/3/2003, 3:04 PM
i was only throwing oil into the fire ... but if I used "vegas" only -- not very fair to say the least .. also , i could see using such a name could be a hinderance in peoples search for 'SoFo vegas' .. after wading through 100,000 hits for casinos and the like - they may give up ..

PAW wrote on 9/3/2003, 4:12 PM

Thanks for the link to google fight, I will use it again

Have fun

PAW