Can Vegas edit at the FRAME level like Premiere?

JakeHannam wrote on 7/25/2003, 8:34 PM
Premiere has a drop-down box that lets you select the timeline format (frames, seconds, minutes, etc.) and it was easy to switch views depending on what you are doing. I have been using Vegas for a few days now but have not been able to view the timeline frame by frame. This is important to me because I need to match up several segments with overlapping frames. I've tried using the audio tracks but that is not as accurate as I had hoped. The manual talks about editing at the frame level but I have not been able to find out how to set it. I've tried adjusting the slider bar and that gets me closer but I cannot get to a point where I can actually view each individual frame.

Surely, there is an easy way. I hope ...

Thanks in advance!

Comments

filmy wrote on 7/25/2003, 8:41 PM
This may sound stupid but here goes - just zoom in all the way to see the frames on the timeline. Yeah, I know - it takes some getting used to but that is the simple way to do it. And to move one frame forward at *any* zoom level you can use the F9 key. One frame back is F3. If you want to use the logical forward/backward arrows for one frame movements you more or less have to be zoomed in all the way.

For me I just stoped trying to look at frames on the timeline so I use the F3 and F9 keys and use the monitor to see each frame. Matter of fact I turned off the 'show peaks' and 'show frames' options. I like the way Premiere allows to choose, if you want to see, all frames or first/last type of layout. VV sort of says "all or nothing - naaah naaah" (Said tounge in cheek)
PeterWright wrote on 7/25/2003, 8:47 PM
In Options > Preferences > Video, set "Show source frame numbers on event thumbnails" to Timecode.

Now, when you use the mouse wheel to zoom in, you can see frame numbers. Keep zooming till you see consecutive numbers on each frame, and you're there.

Having Quantize to frames (top of Options) switched on will also help for video editing.
JakeHannam wrote on 7/25/2003, 8:57 PM
Filmy and PeterWright,

Thanks! I will try both suggestions.

Peter:

1) I have a Wacom Intuos 4D Mouse and the wheel doesn't seem to be doing anything? I do have Quantize turned on (I wish there was a in or out icon to show when it is on or off though).

2) I have a nephew named Peter Wright (lives in Coopersburg, PA).
JakeHannam wrote on 7/25/2003, 9:09 PM
Filmy,

No matter what I do, I cannot get each individual frame. I tried the F9 and F3 and it does indeed advance or reverse one frame but that shows on the monitor.

What I was hoping for was some way to have each clip on its own track and then visually compare them so I could synch on something (a camera flash, an audio pop, etc.). Then I can adjust one track left or right to align with the other track and then edit out the duplication.

What am I still missing?
BillyBoy wrote on 7/25/2003, 9:24 PM
If you're going to use Vegas, FORGET all the half ass ways Premiere does things.

You want to see a close up of more than one track?

Simple.

First use the keyboard arrow keys. The up arrow zooms in, the down arrow zooms out.
This will get you to frame level.

You need to zoom in on multiple tracks?

That's simple too.

Note the scroll bar at the extreme right of the timline. If you hover over the + key you will se it reads zoom in track height. With it you can zoom in on multiple tracks at once. The minus key moves out.

As you zoom in you'll notice that the track area takes over more and more work space. If you zoom in far enough you'll have to push the other window panes down. To do that note the double line double arrow cursor at the very bottom of the track area. You can drag it up or down to shrink or enlarge the window pane area below the timeline.
filmy wrote on 7/26/2003, 12:06 AM
>>>No matter what I do, I cannot get each individual frame. I tried the F9 and F3 and it does indeed advance or reverse one frame but that shows on the monitor.<<<

Well first I said you needed to zoom in on the timeline in order to see each frame on the timeline. The F3/F9 keys I told you about because if all you want to do is check each frame, say on an edit, it is easier to just look at the monitor and frame advance through the footage rather than try to view each frame on the timeline.

Now - you just added in something important that you didn't explain before. You seem to want to sync up takes? For audio is works the same way as Premiere (Must be VV is half assed too huh BB?) You just drop the picture on the timeline and than the audio. Find your slate or flash or whatever and match it to the audio pop by moving the audio around. Than you just group them together. Now if you are talking about multi-cameras and syncing them all up - try Excaliber because it takes some of the short comings of VV and makes them more user friendly, such as multi cameras and syncing them.

You'll have to live with the overall layout of VV as far as the timeline goes. It is very hard to zoom in on more than one track at a time and see them at a frame level. You can do it, but it just becomes a big CF on your screen unless you are running two monitors and isolate the timeline on one of them. We editors tend to look at life a bit different than a colorist does. ;)

BillyBoy wrote on 7/26/2003, 12:51 AM
LOL! Wouldn't you love to be a bug on a wall when some one the SoFo engineers that wrote the code for Vegas read some of these comments?

BTW, I can zoom in enough on the timeline just fine to do ANYTHING. I can still do it in spite of still suffering from my Bell Palsy, So if old blinky (me) can do it, geez...
JakeHannam wrote on 7/26/2003, 10:45 AM
Thanks Filmy and Billyboy. You have both been a great help!
PeterWright wrote on 7/26/2003, 11:07 PM
Jake,

I don't know about the Wacom mouse, but it sounds pretty flash, so I'd be surprised if it did less than a standard Microsoft wheel mouse. I couldn't imaging using Vegas without the wheel zoom in/out.
To make Quantize to Frames more obvious, Options > Customize Toolbar > Add Quantize to Frames and the icon will be up above the timeline at all times.

Say hi to your nephew ...

Peter
SonyDennis wrote on 7/31/2003, 4:25 PM
Up Arrow will zoom in far past single frames. If the Alt key is down, it will stop when all of the visible events are showing single frames.

So, Hold Alt, Hold Up Arrow, wait a second.

///d@