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Subject:I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Posted by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/2/2003 7:38:45 PM
Hi all I ran thru alot of really great posts here on advice to mix, but i just must be deaf. As i read and understand, TRACKEQ, Compression, Reverb should do the trick with the normal adjusting of volumes on the sliders on a bus track. I still keep getting feed back that my vocals mixes are muddy, or vocals are inaudible? But here it sounds fine. I have the Blue Plugins and the SF plugins for effects but i must be missing something here. I generally stick with the SF plugins, system as Follows: Audigy 2 Platinum with 5.25 front Panel Interface for inputs. (I Know I Kow should have bought the terratec!!...DOH!!!!!!) TrackEQ set to preset that says Add air 16k Boost Compression set to 2.1 compression with a threshold of -2.5 Reverb Cathederal, Live Ambience this is a basic setting that i thought was working for my vocals, The bus meters in acid never read more than -2.8 db, with a spike once in a while to -0.5 but that is on a few peaks. Am I doing this right?, oh masters of the Black Art Of Mixing? (He bows politely!!) TIA |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:7/2/2003 8:53:48 PM
It could be a case of listening to your mix on a variety of systems. Sometimes, a project that sounds perfect on your system may sound dull and lifeless on another. Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: MyST
Date:7/2/2003 9:04:21 PM
What are you using for monitors? Are you working in 24bit or 16? M |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/2/2003 9:20:21 PM
16 Bit, I have three different speaker set ups. (mind you they are not studio speakers or any setup like that). i mix in this manner and listen in the same order. I mix using a pair of Creative Speakers (SBS250's) they are stereo speakers for a computer. then i go to Creative 6600 speaker (Which are for 5.1/6.1 surround speakers) then i check the mix in head phones. I know i really need somethig better than this Audigy 2 Platinum card, but terratect will have to wait a few more weeks. hope that helps. |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/2/2003 9:23:42 PM
Iacobus.....thanks for all your replies. I guess i am trying to find that mix that can only be had in a studio or by a professional mix master. I think most songs posted where i post (www.garageband.com) are copied off a bands CD and uploaded. Me i am just going from acid to MP3 and uploading. I swear i'll get the hang of it even if it makes me go MAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDD thanks again |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: drbam
Date:7/2/2003 11:14:13 PM
>>Am I doing this right?, oh masters of the Black Art Of Mixing?<< Mixing isn't really a "black art" (although it sure may seem like it). But it certainly is an art, which like all other art forms takes time, discipline, and MUCH practice to become skilled at it. A list of an efx chain, although interesting, is pretty useless unless one becomes intimately familiar with each efx. I think its a good idea to work with one efx processor at a time so you can get to know it well. If you are new to this, using multiple efx can get really confusing and its virtually impossible to discern what is doing what. A slight tweak on one efx can sometimes alter the entire chain and the overall mix. That being said, the most important factor is your ears. Hence, the need for accurate monitoring. Keep practicing, experimenting, and most of all listen critically to all kinds of recordings on all kinds of systems. See how deep you can get into what's happening in the mixes that inspire you. ;-) HTH, drbam |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:7/3/2003 6:36:21 AM
I don't think its your ears, I think its your listening environment and equipment thats deceiving you. Make sure all background noise producers are isolated so their sounds don't invade your ears. Place all speakers 4 feet away: standard at 45 degree angles from your ears at ear level, and put the woofer in front of your feet. If you have a center speaker, put it directly in front of you at eye level. Another thing that may be mucking your mix is your usage of plugins. Like seasoning a dish: If you can taste it, there's too much Remember, most serious musical acts have their works mixed by serious engineers and then mastered by folks who take that seriousness to the extreme. If you are not serious enough or able to acquire the tools that professionals use, I suggest you hire a professional to mix your material and just focus on creating, recording and arranging. Don't be fooled by the wonderful sound you get in your bedroom (or wherever you mix), pc speakers do not provide an accurate representation of the source. Thats why its best to use real monitors for mixing. If mixing in headphones is tabu, mixing with Creative gear must be a sin. Here are some links to help you get the most from your setup: http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/features.asp |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: methlab
Date:7/3/2003 11:56:42 AM
Don't boost 16k..thats too high for vocals..boost around 1 to 2k instead...also make sure your EQ is AFTER your compression in the chain. I would also cut any frequency below 60hz on the vocals. |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: MyST
Date:7/3/2003 9:21:27 PM
If you can only upgrade one, I'd upgrade the speakers(monitors) before the Audigy Platinum 2. You might be overly compensating because of what you're hearing through your speakers. I don't have good monitors myself, but then again, I'm not going for Pro status either. I think the weakest link in your set-up right now is more your speakers than your Audigy 2. M |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/3/2003 11:07:43 PM
Thanks for all your suggestions, i am trying them ll out as we speak. I hope i have something published on ACIDPlanet that will be a result of your help soon!!! Here i go diving in!!!!! |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:7/3/2003 11:31:31 PM
If I can add my opinion... and second some other opinions... Get some monitors, use less plug-ins, try to eq as little as possible, listen and compare your mix to other CDs as you mix, try your mix in other enviroments (i.e.car, home stereo), keep asking for advice. You'll get it. |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/4/2003 6:12:04 PM
DKeenum thanks Some day i will get some monitors, but i do try the songs out on different speakers, and different systems(Stero, small CD players). But all advice is the is another brick in the road to knowledge (Oh My God that was so....(in an effort to be politically Correct this portion of the sentence was edited out) Tee HEE Hee!!!! |
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Subject:RE: I Must have the deafest Ears!!!
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/5/2003 7:21:13 AM
Ok after everyone's advice, I have mixed down one of my songs. am I Allow to post a link to it and have people check out the mix? you dont have to listen to the whole thing, just a little of it to tell me, Did i follow your suggestion? Heaven Could Have Waited Please Click the real audio version of "Heaven Could have Waited" if you are going to check it out, Please let me know. The Other songs there are going to get mixed next. thanks in Advance and my apologies if you're not supposed to do this. |
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Subject:RE: Did i follow your suggestion?
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:7/6/2003 12:49:06 AM
Nice tune Thor and the entire mix is very muddy. I suggest you bring the vocals up 2db and back that chorus and reverb off a bit. Then use your eq to balance the frequencies. Example: kick drum @ 20-100, bass synth @ 90-240, strings @ 650-2100. Notice the gap between 241 and 649...use that range for the snare and low synth arp. Every sound has its proper place in a mix. Professional engineers (that are any good) have spent years honing that skill. As for your production: I suggest you layer some background vocals x3 behind the hook. Example: The words "Heaven could have waited" should have at least a 2-part harmony like "...can't help but know" and "...hand of god". (I'd shoot for 5-part but thats me). Also, If you double your lead and background tracks, you won't have to rely on chorus to phatten them. From what I hear, I can't tell if you've followed any of my suggestions because that song sounds the same as the rest. |
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Subject:RE: Did i follow your suggestion?
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/6/2003 7:10:27 AM
Groovewerx, did you use an Spectrum Analyzer? I guess i better do some more learning. Or hire some one for mixing!! LOL. I Used WaveLab to Normalize, add some effects and what ever the lite version does.I also used some of the Sofo Plugings for the Vocals and add boost to the 3K range on vocals.(I think that's the preset on the trackEQ plugin) see that's were i am missing knowledge, using the Frequencies ranges for mixing. But i do appreciate your input as i go thru the learning curve. back to the internet for some more reading!! Thanks again! |
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Subject:RE: Did i follow your suggestion?
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/6/2003 11:46:03 AM
Groovewerx Ok i thought i had taken everyones suggestions, but this article and site you provided shows a whole new light on things. i thought i would pass it on to anyone else that is followiing this or might have the same questions as me in the future. this is a link to frequency ranges/EQ and the theory of using them in a mix. CM Guide to Computer Music this is for those that maybe EQ-challenged like myself that didnt exactly understand it beyond a 20 band EQ. i think this will provide the infor anyone else may need. thanks again to every one for their help |
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Subject:RE: did you use an Spectrum Analyzer?
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:7/6/2003 7:07:02 PM
No I didn't because my ears were all I needed. You too should be able to hear the muddiness. Besides that, a Spectrum Anylizer doen't display mud in a mix. Its just a tool to keep you visually aware of frequency levels. Visual tools can fool you into believing you are doing a great thing so I tend not to rely on them as much as I do my ears. I'm glad I was able to point you toward an in-depth and better explained guide to EQ. If you want to get the best out of your music, that is a great place to start. |
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Subject:RE: did you use an Spectrum Analyzer?
Reply by: MyST
Date:7/6/2003 8:08:31 PM
http://www.studiocovers.com More readin' for ya. M |
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Subject:RE: did you use an Spectrum Analyzer?
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/6/2003 8:52:53 PM
Groove Everything you said was a great place to start, However, before my reading and investigating , i dont think i grasped the concept, after reading, i understand the boosting and rolling off of Frequencies a little better now. So here i go Off to read again. I am sure i will get to it in my reading, but i would like to ask one more thing. Parametric or graphic EQ. As i Understand it, Parametric focuses in on a specific Freq, graphic Eq Looks at the whole of the song. Boosting comes with parametric, and clarity comes with graphic EQ. Am I on the right track here? thanks again for all your help and pointing me the right way. |
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Subject:RE: did you use an Spectrum Analyzer?
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/6/2003 8:53:19 PM
MyST thanks going there now!! thanks for the link!! |
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Subject:RE: Parametric or graphic EQ
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:7/6/2003 9:29:18 PM
The main difference is: Graphic EQ = Fixed frequencies and Q = Not much control. Parametric = Adjustible frequencies and Q = Total control. |
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Subject:RE: Parametric or graphic EQ
Reply by: MyST
Date:7/6/2003 10:05:19 PM
I was over on the Vegas forum and came across this thread...thought of you. http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=194722&Replies=4&Page=1 M |
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Subject:RE: Parametric or graphic EQ
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/6/2003 10:10:49 PM
thanks for your help and patience!! |
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Subject:RE: Parametric or graphic EQ
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/6/2003 10:11:09 PM
Great Link!!! thanks!!! |
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Subject:RE: Parametric or graphic EQ
Reply by: TheMightyThor
Date:7/6/2003 10:43:17 PM
By The Way took your suggestion on the chorus. In case you wanted to know, sounds good that way!! thanks again! |