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Subject:CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Posted by: teknik14
Date:6/24/2003 12:48:48 AM
I am just starting to find out the limitations of my P-III 1000 system... or at least I believe the cause of my problem IS a "slow" CPU ??? I have 1GB of RAM, fast drives on seperate IDE channels, and everything on my Win2K system is tweaked and optimized for DAW operation. The problem I am having is clicks and stutters in Acid 4.0 occur during 'intense' passages where 2 or 3 inserted effects have to process tracks. Also, Acid crashes almost regularly when I am editing songs near the end of the tracks... which is weird... because according to the RAM usage indicator on the taskbar, there is TONS of RAM left. However, the Win2k task manager indicates that the CPU is running at 90~100% while Acid is running.. My question is, just how fast a CPU do I need to upgrade to in order to not have to worry about this from happening? Thanks! teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: pwppch
Date:6/24/2003 12:58:48 AM
Something is wrong in your setup. a PIII-1000 with 1 gig of RAM is MORE than enough for ACID to perform very well. I would also suspect a plugin - VSTi or DX - that is causing some kind of CPU usage overhead. What type of performance to you get if you load the Hybrid demo project that is part of the ACID 4.0 install? Peter |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/24/2003 2:42:22 AM
I'll try it and see.. thx! |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/24/2003 3:04:55 AM
Peter, The hybrid demo plays just fine... in fact most of my works play just fine, except when the system seems to get bogged down by 'busy' parts in certain mixes.. then again, I have approx 2 or 3 DX plug-in chains inserted, and there are roughly anywhere from 35 to 49 tracks in some of the 'problem' songs.. not all tracks playing at once mind you. As a test, I removed the DX plug in's and it freed up very little CPU, but as I began to delete tracks, the usage began to drop with each track removed.... hmmm.. I noticed too that RAM is hardly being used at all.... I could easily get by with 512K or even 256. Is there a way to 'force' Acid to use RAM rather than to tax the CPU? Thx! teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: anywhere from 35 to 49 tracks in some of the 'problem' songs
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:6/24/2003 5:35:27 AM
Although I can run 70+ "Beatmapped" and "One Shot" tracks without problems, I normally begin grouping and rendering when the track count reaches 25 to 30. Then my CPUs and I only have 4 to 16 tracks to deal with at one time. Thus leaving room for excessive processing and adding more parts. Try this: 1. "Save" your current work. 2. Apply "Solo" to groups of related tracks (like all the drum parts). 3. "Render" each group to a new track. 4. Delete the grouped tracks. 5. "Save As" a new version. Now you should see your CPU Usage drop because you are running fewer tracks. This is when you can go crazy with processors, and once you have them the way you fancy, "Render" those tracks as well. As for using RAM, you can switch a track's "Properties" to "Loop". I'm sure mD and a few others can explain how thats works in more detail. |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: Erik_Nygaard
Date:6/24/2003 5:36:12 AM
Acid uses ram for loops and disk-streaming for oneshots and beatmapped files. Acid is probably more happy with playing lots of loop-tracks than streaming from disk. It is not a disk multi-tracker by design like Vegas. |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: RasKeita
Date:6/24/2003 8:09:12 AM
Processor scheduling should be set to background services and not Programs. Start > Settings > Control Panel > System > Advanced > Performance Settings > Advanced Tab > Background Services Fix Swap File (Virtual Memory) Start > Settings > Control Panel > System > Advanced > Performance Settings > Advanced > Virtual Memory Change > Custom Size. Set initial and maximum size to the same value. Perhaps you've already done this but if not give it a try...Level Vibes |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: pwppch
Date:6/24/2003 11:39:01 AM
>>I noticed too that RAM is hardly being used at all.... I could easily get by with 512K or even 256. Is there a way to 'force' Acid to use RAM rather than to tax the CPU? << They are not really related. ACID will use as much RAM is it needs. The amount of RAM you have is more than sufficient. I would suggest that you increase your audio buffering size. What it sounds like is happening is that in the sections where you have a lot of edits, ACID's audio engine has too much work to do to keep up with the hardware buffering requirments. Peter |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/25/2003 2:56:42 AM
Hmmm.... weird... my last post didn't get uploaded.. ?? Anyway, thanks for everyone's contributions.. but I have already addressed every one of the issues presented. For the most part, I'm running about 90% loops and 10% one shots, so I don't think that is a problem. I think SonicPCH is right about the audio engine not being able to handle the load. And, to render grouped tracks into 'bounced' tracks would be fine until an individual level or whatever from that group would need to be tweaked. The whole process would begin again.. I will install Acid on a 'faster' system I have at the office and see if it makes a difference. Any other suggestions? thanks! teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:6/25/2003 4:27:20 PM
The key is to tweak the levels and get a good mix before you render a group. If later you realize you need to make adjustments, you simply go back to the save point and make them. Then re-render the group and overwrite the incorrect render. That way any chages or fx added to the track in subsequent mixes remain intact. |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/25/2003 6:41:29 PM
Hm.... well, yes that would certainly work, except for the fact that I can't properly tweak the levels if a song keeps stuttering. I currently have to render the entire song, rip it to CDRW, audition the levels, make adjustments, then re-render again... bla bla bla... Jeez... you'd think that with a gig of Ram and a 1Ghz CPU, one would not have to contend with this.... teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:6/25/2003 9:36:23 PM
From your post I assumed you wanted to avoid clicks in your mix. What was I thinking? |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: drbam
Date:6/25/2003 11:28:18 PM
>>Jeez... you'd think that with a gig of Ram and a 1Ghz CPU, one would not have to contend with this....<< You didn't say whether you tried Peter's suggestion of increasing your buffer settings? Obviously this isn't a ram issue. drbam |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/26/2003 1:10:32 AM
Yeah, if you mean the playback buffer 'slider' adjustment in Options, I have it maxxed to 1 second... can't go any higher. BTW, I have an M-Audio 2496 Audiophile as a soundcard.. do any of you know of any issues with it and Acid maybe... other than the fact that I can't use its ASIO drivers with Acid.. :-p Thanks! teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/26/2003 1:14:43 AM
hmm..... well, I suppose the odd click, pop and splat won't bother anyone... but there goes my hopes of becoming a "pop star"... heh heh (oooh... bad one) teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: AlDavis
Date:6/26/2003 2:13:52 AM
Humm...I don't have this problem with a P3-450 mhz machine. ...but I did experience it once with a reverb effect; it kept locking-up Acid. Bypass all reverbs and see what happens. |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: pwppch
Date:6/26/2003 7:29:05 AM
Why can't you use the ASIO drivers? What version of the drivers are you using? Since you aren't using ASIO, I would assume you are using the Wave Classic Drivers: What is the setting in the Audiophile configuration pannel for buffer size? A setting of 1 second in ACID is actually going to make things worse in some cases. I would suggest you set it to the default of 350 ms or even at 200 ms. Open the Advanced audio settings in ACID then. Make sure that the Buffer size setting is MME. Increase the number of buffers to 6 or 8. Try setting the Priority to Time Critical also. Also, what FX are you using on your tracks? Peter |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/26/2003 11:35:33 AM
>Why can't you use the ASIO drivers? They seem to work fine until I add about 3 or more tracks.. or during moderately intense passages, the audio begins to stutter and I get this horrible 'digitized aliasing' type sound. >What version of the drivers are you using? MAudio Delta ASIO ver 5.10.00.0029 (the latest from MAudio) >Since you aren't using ASIO, I would assume you are using the Wave Classic Drivers: Right. >What is the setting in the Audiophile configuration pannel for buffer size? It is currently set to 64K, but I have tried larger values with no improvement.. in fact, larger values cause problems with the system sounds.. and this is most likely due to the VIA694T Chipset - the 2496 is known to have issues with VIA chipesets.. >A setting of 1 second in ACID is actually going to make things worse in some cases. I >would suggest you set it to the default of 350 ms or even at 200 ms. Done... no improvement >Open the Advanced audio settings in ACID then. Make sure that the Buffer size setting >is MME. Increase the number of buffers to 6 or 8. Try setting the Priority to Time >Critical also. Ok, you lost me here... I have no such settings in Advanced of ACID's Audio Properties >Also, what FX are you using on your tracks? In the composition that I am experiencing the most problems, I have "Waves Super Tap", "Waves True Verb" and "Sonic Foundry Chorus" inserted on an FX bus (for the one-shot vocal tracks) Thx! teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: pwppch
Date:6/26/2003 2:40:36 PM
>What version of the drivers are you using? >>MAudio Delta ASIO ver 5.10.00.0029 (the latest from MAudio) VERY bad drivers. You need to get the ACID Fix drivers from MAudio. >What is the setting in the Audiophile configuration pannel for buffer size? It is currently set to 64K, but I have tried larger values with no improvement.. in fact, larger values cause problems with the system sounds.. and this is most likely due to the VIA694T Chipset - the 2496 is known to have issues with VIA chipesets.. << 64K: Have you tried lowering it? What other options do you have? You have system sounds enabled? Turn them off. We don't support them and recommend they be disabled at the same time as the app is running if you are using Wave Classic Drivers. Why? Because they cause windows to resample everything internally and will effect Wave Classic Driver performance. Yes, the VIA and the MAudio stuff don't get along. This could be the cause of your problems as well. Have you tried moving your card to a different PCI slot? >Open the Advanced audio settings in ACID then. Make sure that the Buffer size setting >is MME. Increase the number of buffers to 6 or 8. Try setting the Priority to Time >Critical also. Ok, you lost me here... I have no such settings in Advanced of ACID's Audio Properties << What version of ACID are you using? You should be using the latest. >Also, what FX are you using on your tracks? In the composition that I am experiencing the most problems, I have "Waves Super Tap", "Waves True Verb" and "Sonic Foundry Chorus" inserted on an FX bus (for the one-shot vocal tracks) < What if you remove these from the project? Peter |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/26/2003 3:01:18 PM
>VERY bad drivers. You need to get the ACID Fix drivers from MAudio. Here is what the Maudio site describes: 2003-06-13 5.10.00.29 Delta Series WDM Driver Delta_WDM_51000029.EXE Release Notes: Release Version includes: - ACID 4.0 ASIO Fix This is all they have for ASIO driver availability.. teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: SonicJG
Date:6/26/2003 5:00:54 PM
To repeat what Peter said: What version of ACID are you using? You should be using the latest. If you can't get to the Advanced settings on the Audio Prefs page with CWD, you're most likely not using ACID 4.0d. It can be obtained at http://www.sonicfoundry.com/download/step2.asp?DID=405 HTH, Joel |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/26/2003 6:16:36 PM
Joel, Ok, I downloaded and installed 4.0d.... played with the advanced (!) settings of audio options, but there was only a slight improvement once I got the buffers set up right and the priority set to 'Time Critical'. I really think the problem is the 'waves' plug-ins... my system can't seem to meet the demand for processing power during intense passages.. teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/26/2003 6:17:55 PM
>You have system sounds enabled? Turn them off. We don't support them and recommend they be disabled at the same time as the app is running if you are using Wave Classic Drivers. Why? Because they cause windows to resample everything internally and will effect Wave Classic Driver performance. No improvement. |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/26/2003 6:32:30 PM
>64K: Have you tried lowering it? >What other options do you have? Nope... that's as low as she goes, and beyond that, the other options all soundcard specific - and I've tried EVERY possible combination... >Yes, the VIA and the MAudio stuff don't get along. This could be the cause of your >problems as well. I'm sure it definitely contributes to it.... I will be trying a fresh install of ACID on a NON-VIA system (SIS chipset) later tonight, and will see what happens.. >Have you tried moving your card to a different PCI slot? Not yet... I have the PCI cards in the system set up and manually assigned their own IRQ's (ACPI disabled) >What version of ACID are you using? You should be using the latest. 4.0d now... And, I believe Microsoft has just released SP4 for win2k... so I'll be installing that right away.. not that it should have much of an effect in this case... >What if you remove these (FX) from the project? I will try and see what happens... Don't get me wrong, I think ACID4 is AWESOME.... it kicks the butt of many other 'loop based' sequencers out there. I just didn't think I'd have to worry about this sort of thing with a relatively fast system. I migrated away from outboard keyboards and FX processors to the digital world, and for the most part, I'm glad I did... but I sure miss the reliability of my Ensoniq boards :-) teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: drbam
Date:6/26/2003 6:45:57 PM
What version of Waves plugs do you have? Until 3.5 they were pretty CPU intensive. Even if you're using ver. 3 or 4, if you have several verbs inserted, you most likely are going to have problems. Unless you have a really powerful system, its best to put verbs on a buss as insertable efx and send each track as much as you want to one verb (or two perhaps). drbam |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/26/2003 8:38:35 PM
Waves ver 3.2! Uh oh! Yeah, that's pretty much how I have the tracks set up.... I have 'Waves Enigma', 'super tap' and 'true verb' on a bus as inserts.. Hmmm... would maybe having only one FX per individual bus (so, three busses), rather than having all three FX 'chained' together on ONE bus make a difference? Hmmm.... teknik14 |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: drbam
Date:6/26/2003 8:57:32 PM
I don't think having separate busses for each efx will make much difference. Its how many total instances of the efx that matters. I definitely would upgrade from your 3.2 to 4 if you can afford it. There's a huge decrease in CPU usage. drbam |
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Subject:RE: CPU usage at 90~100%.....
Reply by: teknik14
Date:6/26/2003 9:49:47 PM
Hmmm.. well, after having removed the 'waves' plugins, my system now runs at 75~90% through those same 'trouble' spots.... I think it's now pretty obvious what is happening.. crap! teknik14 |