Subject:Working with Vocals - Workflow Question

Posted by: spongebob

Date:6/16/2003 1:26:02 PM

I've been creating instrumental tracks in Acid and was recently asked to work with a singer. I was hoping to get some ideas on the best way to appraoch this.

In a typical singer / music producer collaboration, does a singer give the producer an acapella version of their song before the producer creates the track? For example, how does Willian Orbit collaborate with vocalists?

I was thinking of creating an instrumental track in Acid, giving the singer a copy of it, and having her record the vocals in a studio while listening to the music (since I don't have the proper equipment to record vocals in my home studio). Then I could add the vocals in Acid as a one shot. Is this a good approach?

Are there any "best practices" that I should be aware of?

Subject:RE: Working with Vocals - Workflow Question

Reply by: ATP

Date:6/16/2003 1:48:22 PM

i don't know how professional musicians work, but your second method seems most practical to me. a singer has to know the track before he/she can write the lyrics, so i would assume you'd give the singer an almost finished version of your song and let him/her work with that for a period of time, record a few test takes, etc. then, when everything is smoothed out, you can record the final take, which you can put in the ACID project afterwards. i guess that would be the most efficient way.

Subject:RE: Working with Vocals - Workflow Question

Reply by: ATP

Date:6/16/2003 1:51:06 PM

oh and another option could be that you, the producer, also write the lyrics and just instruct the singer on how to sing them. i'm sure that happens with a lot of boy-bands etc. :)

Subject:RE: Working with Vocals - Workflow Question

Reply by: spongebob

Date:6/16/2003 3:29:25 PM

I wonder if people like William Orbit produce a bunch of tracks and then give them to Madonna or Pink and say, OK now sing over this. Or do they start with the lyrics and/or an acapella track and then produce the music around the vocals?

Subject:RE: Working with Vocals - Workflow Question

Reply by: ATP

Date:6/16/2003 4:15:00 PM

well, how do you suppose the acapella track gets created then? if there is no music yet the singer has to ... make something up on the spot? how will she know which tune to sing to? not to mention the chore of having to come up with a song built around such a lyric.

i'm positive the music gets created first, and then the lyrics get done. it could also be done simultaneously, but i really doubt it's first the lyrics and then the song. it's just too inefficient.

Subject:RE: Working with Vocals - Workflow Question

Reply by: bgc

Date:6/16/2003 6:59:02 PM

hi spongebob -
the case where the vocalist gives a solo (no music) vocal to a producer to create a track to is rare (unless of course it's a remix and the producer is given the original solo vocal to make new music to).
this makes sense if you think about how a vocalist normally works and what they're trying to accomplish: a vocalist is trying to interact and perform with the music to create a special musical experience. if a singer is just singing solo it's hard to make a compelling overall track. (of course there are lots of examples where people like Fat Boy Slim take old accapella tracks and create huge hits with them ;)
for what you're trying to do I would say, create a mix of your backing track and give it to the vocalist and have them record the vocal in a good studio. if you have artistic ideas you should be there. the vocals should be recorded with minimal eq and compression so that you can do that in your mixing.
do you want one final vocal track or a few to choose from and create a composite track from? that's another consideration.
for many bands that don't have vocalists (massive attack comes to mind) they send tracks without vocals and the vocalists write lyrics and create the melody. usually for massive the vocalists come in and sing a number of takes and they create a final song out of all of the takes. some producers/artists like Tricky actually write the lyrics for the singer and take a more creative control approach to the vocalists work.
hope that helps - there's tons more stuff that I could add but I think this gives you an idea.
bgc

Subject:RE: Working with Vocals - Workflow Question

Reply by: spongebob

Date:6/17/2003 8:12:38 AM

Thanks everyone. bgc- those examples are very helpful. That's exactly the kind of arrangement I'm shooting for- like massive attack and tricky, although I don't write lyrics like tricky. Did you read about their workflow in an interview or something?

This brings up another question- since most of this genre of music is created in the studio, do these guys perform live? Watching a guy work a pc and synths on stage doesn't seem that entertaining. The only "electronic music" that I've seen in concert has been dance music, and that's not my bag when it comes to production. I guess the vocalist could take the production ideas and get some musicians to perform live. But where does that leave the producer?
sponge

Subject:RE: Working with Vocals - Workflow Question

Reply by: drbam

Date:6/17/2003 10:26:48 AM

>>But where does that leave the producer?<<

Producing. A producer can certainly become involved in helping an act develop their live performances (and various other aspects of an artist's career). Make sure you have a formal agreement worked out so you'll be fairly compensated.

Many artists use live players along with sequencing (loops and other prerecorded material). Peter Gabriel and Madonna are two that do this really well imo.

drbam

Subject:RE: Working with Vocals - Workflow Question

Reply by: bgc

Date:6/17/2003 1:30:48 PM

Yes, these bands perform live and are very good at it. It takes some work translating from studio to stage and some decisions need to be made. Does the vocalist perform to a computer/synths only? Do you use a DJ to play the beats and additional musicians to perform distinct parts? Or do you have a standard rock setup (drums, bass, guitar, keys) to perform the music? All are valid options and are done by different electronic acts.
If the producer is a musician then they can play/contribute. Otherwise they wait for the next studio gig.

Subject:RE: Working with Vocals - Workflow Question

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:6/19/2003 10:16:29 AM

You're going to learn as you go, so the main thing is to just get in there and try it. After you do your first track with the singer, you'll probably begin to adjust the way you do things to better suit you.

Also, remember that you can cut up the vocal the save ram and to give youself more arrangment possibilities.