Subject:Recording Slow AND "Hick uping"

Posted by: ppaul

Date:6/13/2003 9:54:29 PM

Boy am I glad I read the email on this subject. THANKS GUYS. I was going to get Pro 4 but NOOOO WAY. I'v had had a great deal of difficulty w/ sonic support. A different answer from each tech etc.

I am using Acid Pro 3. One song has "hick uping" in two spots. Nobody there has a clue.

1. I updated all drivers (I was working on a PIII 750 w/ TONS of ram). Made a copy blank of acid and pasted all tracks from bad tune to it.

Two weeks worth of work.

Went and bought a new computer Sony Vaio 2.4 Gig processor w/ 512 ram. No help

Put in all new drivers. No help

muted all acoustic (Non loop) tracks. No help

Spoken to acid. No help.

Attempted communicating w/ tech by email. He sent me a message saying he would be out of the office until January 6th???????

The most frustrating thing is that I don't feel they care.

They suggested I buy Acid Pro 4.

Well, I LOVE ACID!! I REALLY LOVE ACID!! But, I feel abandoned by Sonic Foundry. AND, the general feeling is that they don't provide the proper support. I've had other problems. Some they were of help, and others I had to figure out and teach the tech.

Does anybody out there have trouble w/ the program choking down in spots? This sounds like a corruption problem. Acid insists that loops cannot be corrupted. AND, if a song were to be corrupted, I should make a blank tune and copy the tracks over??

And support out there from human beings??

Many many thanks

Paul Adams

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND "Hick uping"

Reply by: MyST

Date:6/13/2003 10:13:04 PM

Have you tried removing one track at a time until the hiccuping goes away?
Have you tried removing effects one at a time until the hiccuping goes away?
Did you offer SoFo to send them the .acd-zip file of your project to see if they can reproduce?
Forgive me if some of these are basic suggestions...I don't know what you've tried.
I have read on the forums that some plug-ins didn't work well with SoFo apps.

M
PS: Try copying your project under a different name, then download the 4.0 demo and open that copy up in the 4.0 demo.

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND "Hick uping"

Reply by: ppaul

Date:6/15/2003 12:36:32 AM

Many Thanks. Yes, I did the elimination of tracks as well as elimination of processing. Took many hours to do one at a time. Only time it went away was when all but one track was muted.

Good idea about sending the project to acid. I was hoping they would do that. Funny, that as much as I've been through with them that they never suggested that. I really feel Sonic is weak in support. I just can't help but get the feeling that the code of conduct is to cut ones losses. IE, if ya can't help say I'm sorry and allow the customer to hang.

I'll try loading the demo of 4 and copying the song w/ a different name and playing. BUT, I've heard a lot of folks having trouible w/ Pro 4
paul adams

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND

Reply by: MyST

Date:6/15/2003 7:27:57 AM

SoFo support is usually excellent. I don't know why they didn't ask you to send a .acd-zip, they usually ask that. I know that's what they did when I was having problems with a file awhile ago.

"... I've heard a lot of folks having trouible w/ Pro 4"

Hope not...I just went from 3 to 4 on friday. :)


M

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND

Reply by: ppaul

Date:6/15/2003 7:16:18 PM

I hope Pro 4 works out. The only thing about it that will be very good for me is the ability to work in odd meters like 5/4, 7/8 etc etc

Let us know how Pro 4 works out.

I spent another 3 hours working on the "hick uping" and "choking" this particular song has. It makes no sense in that It always does this in the same section of song, yet cannot be isolated by, TRACK, FX PROCESSING, or any other method.

I think the reason acid hasn't offered to help me out and have me send them the file is that they feel I'm a difficult person because I've called so much. I hope they understand that I really want to solve this problem and don't mean to embarass them.

Usually when there is a problem it is ME that is at fault. But, I'm at a loss on this one. Been working on this going on 3 weeks. I can't believe nobody else has had this problem. It's happened to me on a number of occasions. I though buying a 2.4 gig computer would help/

paul

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND

Reply by: MyST

Date:6/15/2003 7:44:37 PM

Did you try the song in 4.0?
Give all the system specs you can.
How much RAM is being used when the project hiccups? Look to the lower right of the screen and you should see where it tells you ??/512.

M

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/16/2003 12:24:25 PM

I've been working with Pro 4.0 for quite a while now and come across performance ceiling issues here and there. But that's a result of my system's config, not because of ACID.

There are quite a few factors that can influence playback/recording performance.

-Be sure any non-essential programs are not open and running in the background. Examples are antivirus programs and instant messengers. Turn them off.

-Some effects are more CPU-hungry than others. If you're happy with the effects, bounce down the effects to the track so ACID won't have to do any real time processing on the fly.

-Using a high bit depth and sample rate (like 24-bit/96 kHz) will—surprise—yield better audio fidelity but will require more power, especially if there are lots of tracks with effects.

In addition, ACID does real time stretching of Loop and Beatmapped track types.

-I'd be more than willing to debate the fact that most consumer-level soundcards like those from Creative Labs just can't cut the mustard when it comes to pro audio. Choices offered from companies like Echo or M-Audio offer much better alternatives.

It won't matter if you have 2.4 GHz system if the system contains a plain-vanilla Sound Blaster or compatible. That's like putting a truck engine in a race car.

What you want is a soundcard or audio interface that's streamlined for one thing and one thing only—audio. No need for "extras". Just give one the power.

SoFo, to their credit, cannot say a plain-vanilla soundcard blows chunks for audio because they have a business relationship with related companies. It would look like they're playing favorites otherwise. That option is left up to us, the rest of the user community.

-In a related issue, soundcard drivers can determine whether your experience goes smoothtly or goes kablooey. The same applies to video card drivers. (Video actually accounts for a large majority of computer problems, whether the problem is actually related to video or not. Example: ATI's Radeon video card caused problems with SoFo's software a few Radeon driver versions back.)

-You'll want a hard drive with a spindle speed of at least 7200 RPM, preferably set all by itself just for audio on the secondary IDE channel. This will help just in case ACID (or any other program for that matter) needs to stream playback of audio from the hard drive.

-Since this is a new system, I'm gathering Windows XP came installed with it. You might want to check out MusicXP.net. This site is a great resource for those using Microsoft's latest OS as a DAW.

HTH,
Iacobus

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND "Hick uping"

Reply by: gunhed

Date:6/16/2003 3:40:02 PM

The worst time I've had with choking and hicups was when I had several instances of a poorly written VSTi in my score. It hogged so much CPU time that it bogged my system down.

Are you using any VSTi synths?

So I can understand your problem better, you say the hicupping happens at the same spot in the playback. Does the whole song hicupp (pause briefly), or just one of the tracks?

Does the hicupp happen only once in the entire song, or does it happen at regular intervals? At regular locations within the loops?

Have you played each of your loops from another application (like SoundForge or Windows Media Player) to check the quality of your loops / recordings?

I think mD made a good point about checking playback options, such as sample rate (44/96k) and bit-depth. I would check those characteristics on your loops and on the project's playback settings. If you have a loop with a honking huge file size, use an app to reduce it's sample rate or bit depth. I'm just trying to think of things to help you out here; ignore me if these are things you've already considered.

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND

Reply by: mmzz

Date:6/17/2003 12:41:43 AM

ouch. lots of soundblaster blasting mD. mine have never faulted in the years i have been "aciding". they take everthing i have ever thrown at it. and even the 3 or 4 i have owned over the years dont add up to $500 like the fancy impresso cards you own! but some folks like to impress others by bragging about spending lots of money on gear (i have noticed you bash and brag and give horrible advice all the time here). guess its supposed to make up for some kind of other shortcomings. i have owned tons of bloatgear in the past and most of it has been over priced proprietary garbage that becomes obsolete before you can get the corrected and working drivers from the manufacturers website. last i checked plain-vanilla ice cream was the same price as cherry garcia per pint. and for some people vanilla is damn yummy.

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND

Reply by: MyST

Date:6/17/2003 4:33:05 AM

"(i have noticed you bash and brag and give horrible advice all the time here"

mD has probably helped more people on the Acid forum over the past YEARS than anyone else. You're new here, aren't you?
Why don't you set aside a few hours and research his previous posts, you might (scratch that), WILL learn alot about Acid!
All mD has ever said was don't be surprised you're having problems if your PC isn't properly set-up to perform the tasks you're asking of it...ie lower end hardware, active anti-virus, etc.
You might have been Acidizing for years, but you don't know how valuable his input has been to this (and othe SoFo) forums.
Do another research on this and other audio related forums regarding the Soundblaster line, and you might see you've been one of the lucky ones.

M

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/17/2003 1:44:36 PM

Oh, this one made me giggle.

Actually, the M-Audio Audiophile (which I own) is about $150 if you look around. For about $50 more, you can pick up the MiaMIDI from Echo.

Both cards are fast, sleek and do their job without unnecessary bloatware. Why bog one down with software you'll never use when all you want it to do is record and playback great audio in the first place?

They also won't break your bank. They also do true 24-bit/96 kHz audio with either ASIO or WDM.

Based upon past posts in this forum, I keep seeing cursor placement/playback sync issues with the Sound Blaster line. I want to say it's driver related and can usually be cleared up by updating drivers.

Sure, I make mistakes from time to time. I'll be the first to admit it.

However, I find it my obligation to my fellow users to set the record straight when it comes to their pursuit of digital audio. That includes telling the truth about Creative's products.

Anyone remember the debacle with Audigy 1 doing 16-bit/48 kHz internally, even though they touted it does 24-bit/96 kHz? I suppose I don't have to mention that doing 16-bit/48 kHz internally defeats the whole purpose? And I'm not even a propellerhead on the issue. It's common sense.

Yet, Creative didn't broadcast that fact as such, and many users felt duped. And rightfully so.

Iacobus

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND "Hick uping"

Reply by: philthy

Date:6/17/2003 4:20:28 PM

I dunno about ver 3 but I've had this on occasion in Acid 4.0c.

Seemed to it is more hard drive speed issues with multi tracks, and possibly disk fragmentation. In Acid 1 you could easily force parts to load into RAM rather than load off disk. Can be done in ver 4 too, but not as easily I think.

So it doesn't matter how much RAM you have if the bottle neck is the hard drive.

You need a hard drive with well fast spin rate and continuous data output to support multi audio tracks, maybe even a drive array.

I take it when you do a mix down to new track and use that instead of all the separate parts the playback is fine? As with rendering the music to a stereo output file.. that is OK yer?

If so... maybe you can work around it by adding a mix down track to your song while you're working on adding new layers (mute all individual tracks).. until the final mix stage when you render it out and use the individual tracks again (mute the mixdown track).

It's not ideal but maybe worth a try.

Phil

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND "Hick uping"

Reply by: MyST

Date:6/17/2003 9:20:10 PM

From the Acid KB articles on the SoFo site...


Summary: Troubleshooting skipping or gapping on playback

Issue: Why does ACID skip, gap, or stutter during playback, and what can you do about it?

Solution: Skipping and gapping in the audio during playback can be caused by several things. The most common cause is a lack of RAM. Most of the audio that you deal with in ACID will be stored in RAM. If you open a lot of files, RAM can be eaten up quickly. If too much of your physical RAM is being used, Windows will start "swapping" out RAM to your hard drive. If this happens to your loops, ACID will most likely gap when it has to swap the audio back into RAM.
There is a handy RAM usage meter at the bottom of the ACID window. If the meter ever reaches the red stage, you might experience audio gapping.

Another reason for audio gapping might be playing too many Disk-Based Tracks at once. ACID is not optimized to play more than one or two stretched Disk-Based Tracks at a time. Unstretched Disk-Based Tracks will perform better but will still top out at four or five, depending on your system configuration.

ACID will also need a pretty fast CPU in order to play projects with large combinations of envelopes, plug-ins, and tracks. If your CPU can't keep up with all of the processing that is happening in real time, you will have to cut back on the amount of real-time processing or upgrade your CPU.

To optimize your system and reduce the possibility of skipping, do the following:

Update your video and sound card drivers to their newest versions. These should be available from the manufacturers' websites.
Increase the Acid playback buffering (Options -> Preferences -> Audio) a little bit. It may take some trial and error to find the right setting.
Lower the video acceleration. Go to Start ->Settings -> Control Panel -> System -> Performance -> Graphics/Application Performance to lower this setting.
Close other running 32-bit applications/utilities before running ACID. Press CTRL+ALT+Delete and End Task on everything but Exlorer and Systray.

Subject:RE: Recording Slow AND

Reply by: cloudspine

Date:6/20/2003 10:04:08 AM

i'm not sure what exactly you mean by "hickuping," but i get this sort of like crack(l)ing, or stuttering, sound when my project (nine files/loops/midis) plays. i can't quite remember, but i think it started when i added more than five files. still, it doesn't happen all the time. could be the hd activity, fragmentation, memory use, the usual pc "problems."