Subject:Render problems...ACID Music 3.0

Posted by: mixermark

Date:6/10/2003 1:47:35 PM

I just bought ACID Music 3.0. But have been having trouble with rendering regions (so I can do track indexing when I burn). Rendering to .wav files puts a click at the end of each track and rendering to .mp3 puts slience/gaps so if I burn with Disc at once for a seamless mix, there are gaps or clicks. I have used lots of other programs to make mix CDs before and have never had these problems - in other words it's not a problem with my other software. I read somewhere that ACID puts a bunch of junk at the end of .wav files. Why? If you are exporting to a .wav file what use is beat info (or whatever it is) is that? Why is ACID not able to render properly? I am definitely NOT buying more software. Any suggestions? I'm kind of tired of using 10 different programs to just make a damn disc of mixed music. (one for editing, one for mixing/fading, one for trimming, one for splitting - if needed, one for normalizing....on and on)

I was hoping that ACID would be a one-stop shop. And I paid more for it than any of the other applications I use, but it's proving just too tedious. Do I have to get another program to clean the files? ACK! You would think there would be options in the render window for this? I mean, to me, the whole point of rendering a region is to make a file of PRECISE points in the music, right? Why clutter up the end points with garbage in the first place?

I can't even imagine trying to score my video projects with it!

Subject:RE: Render problems...ACID Music 3.0

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/10/2003 2:08:46 PM

Mmm. I've never had a problem rendering WAV. They're pretty quiet too at the end.

Are you ensuring that the end of the loop region does not rest on anything other than a zero crossing so that it doesn't glitch? You don't want the end of a file to rest on anything else other than 0.0 dB (or at least close to that amount if you can help it).

HTH,
Iacobus

Subject:RE: Render problems...ACID Music 3.0

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/10/2003 2:14:01 PM

Oh, wait. I just read your post again.

You should still be able to seamlessly go from track to track without any clicks introduced as long as you were precise about it.

Even if the tracks were ACIDized, it doesn't matter. Most other apps can't read this info and will just ignore the extra data.

HTH,
Iacobus

Subject:RE: Render problems...ACID Music 3.0

Reply by: SonicJG

Date:6/10/2003 2:31:14 PM

Sorry, I don't follow what you're talking about WRT clicks at the end of each track--never seen that before. Rendering to .mp3 is always going to add silence to the file in any app, unless you use something that can directly trim mp3 cells, such as mp3trim. Looks like this is your first post here, so perhaps there's some more investigation required to find out what's going on. What version of ACID Music 3.0 are you using (Go to Help/About)? If it's not 3.0g, you may do well to update.

HTH,
Joel

Subject:RE: Render problems...ACID Music 3.0

Reply by: mixermark

Date:6/10/2003 2:36:25 PM

Thanks, Iacobus. But what do you mean about being precise?

All the burning programs I have seem to treat the extra data as audio so it ends up being a pop. I have tried NERO, Easy CD Creator, Jet Audio - the best one, and even Media Player. makes me think that ACID is not properly supporting the file standard since they all seem to behave the same way. Do you know of a particular one that will ignore the data? (as long as it doesnt insert silence that is)

I have several other programs that are great for making mix tracks and they dont seem to have these problems when they make separate wav files (automatically too I might add). I have to continue to use them, but i really like the flexibility for chopping up songs, remixing, and layering with ACID.

Mark

Subject:RE: Render problems...ACID Music 3.0

Reply by: mixermark

Date:6/10/2003 2:43:58 PM

thanks Joel, I have researched this for about 2 weeks now. I am a fairly experienced digital audio user. This post is sort of a last resort before I look elsewhere for software for my studios. I also beta test several other audio applications for sw companies. I have the latest ACID Music 3.0 according to your download site. I know how to set up regions and such. Just can't seem to get the program to output a clean file.

I can try several other tedious processes I suppose - like rendering one long file then getting another program to split it up somehow (write down all the track times and do math??) and rename all the files (manually). But that seems like a silly workaround.

I have several programs (like DJ Mix Pro) which dont put silence at the end of MP3 files and dont put extra data in wav files. If they do then they must be automatically trimming it out. I can burn them seamlessly onto a CD with any of my burning applications.

Mark

Subject:RE: Render problems...ACID Music 3.0

Reply by: mixermark

Date:6/10/2003 2:56:11 PM

Oh, I forgot. I've already tried microfading the ends of the tracks too. Same result. That's what made me think it was the extra data in the wav files.

Mark

Subject:RE: Render problems...ACID Music 3.0

Reply by: SonicJG

Date:6/10/2003 3:43:58 PM

The extra data that ACID uses is stored in the RIFF headers, and not the PCM wave data, so it wouldn't do anything to the audio data directly.

Joel

Subject:RE: Render problems...ACID Music 3.0

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/10/2003 3:57:09 PM

What I meant was when you place the Loop Region, do you ensure that its mark in point begins on the exact same point as the mark out point on the last render?

For example, say you render the mix from 1.1 to 9.1. In order to be consistent, the next rendered area's mark in point should begin at 9.1.

In order to be this precise, you should use markers or regions to denote parts of the mix you'd like to make separate tracks. (Using regions would be easiest. Each region's out point should touch the next region's in point.) Then double-click in between those markers or regions for the Loop Region to snap automatically between them.

How bad is the glitching? Can you actually see it an editor such as Sound Forge?

What about tracks that end at 0.0 dB? Do those glitch as well?

Iacobus

Subject:RE: Render problems...ACID Music 3.0

Reply by: mixermark

Date:6/10/2003 4:27:39 PM

Thanks Iacobus, I do use regions and the stop point of the previous track is the start point of the next track. I have used the procedures that were posted here before for making multiple tracks of a long mix - that's where I got the idea.

Thanks, Joel for the note about the header information. At least now I can look for an application that will ignore the extra header info and maybe remove it. The "glitch" data does not appear in the PCM data (at least my other editors dont show it), I guess it is the "misinterpretation" of the data by the converting/burning software that is the problem. They don't seem to understand what to do with it ....so they assume that it is wave data I guess - so it might actually be at the beginning and not the end of each file. But with several of the commercial burning/converting apps doing the same thing - it is a little suspicious. Maybe an option is to render to MP3s and remove/trim the silence?

How about an option to not include the extra data for a vanilla wav file?

Mark