Subject:Opinions on Acid as an audio mixer

Posted by: dkistner

Date:5/11/2003 10:13:33 AM

Okay, I've had Acid for over a year now, not used much except for some fun playing around with loops, but I'm frustrated with my "other" mixer (n-Track Studio) and can't spring for what I think I really want (Cubase SX) anytime soon.

So I'm wondering: For purposes of just pulling in clean individual voice lines recorded out of another program (as one shots), applying volume/panning and maybe a few effects here and there, then rendering the mix, will Acid Pro 4.0b perform suitably for me? It's my understanding that Acid doesn't "muck" with one-shots. And I really do like Acid's user interface.

Also, my mixes tend to run in the neighborhood of 4:30 minutes or more, with as many as 16 different voice (instrument) lines. Should I be using the Wave64 option in Acid? And with an Echo Mia card running Pure Wave drivers, should I select Windows Classic Wave or Echo WDM drivers?

Subject:RE: Opinions on Acid as an audio mixer

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:5/11/2003 6:29:50 PM

ACID indeed does not apply its timestretching ability to One-shot track types. 4.0b should do what you want. Just be aware performance of disk-based tracks will be dependent on how well your system is configured, as ACID is not a true multitracker per se. (That title belongs to Vegas solely alone.)

Wave64 overcomes the limitations of file size, doesn't it? (I can't remember offhand.)

You have a choice between Windows Classic and WDM? I imagine WDM would be preferable. Aren't ASIO drivers available too?

HTH,
Iacobus

Subject:RE: Opinions on Acid as an audio mixer

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/11/2003 6:35:16 PM

For the Mia your best bet is ASIO or PureWave. Either one should provide you low enought buffer sizes to permit real-time performance with softsynths.

In the upcomming 4.0c we have enhanced th Classic Wave Driver support to permit native wave drivers like the PureWave for the Echo cards to achieve equal performance to that of ASIO.

Peter

Subject:RE: Opinions on Acid as an audio mixer

Reply by: dkistner

Date:5/11/2003 7:15:03 PM

Good news on both counts, Peter and Iacobus.

I forget what choice I had for the drivers. Classic Wave was one, and the other one that used to present itself when I had a Soundblaster; and a third that seemed directly related to my Mia. (Echo WDM is I think what it was; no ASIO specifically, I don't think, but that may be because I had the Pure Wave driver selected for Acid's out on my Mia Console. I'll try the WDM on the console and see if it gives me an ASIO choice.) I'm ghosting my system and doing this off another one now, so I can't check.

Great news about those enhancements for the Mia for 4.0c! Is that coming soon?

Subject:RE: Opinions on Acid as an audio mixer

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:5/11/2003 11:21:11 PM

Diane,

From what I've read you should be fine. In terms of your one-shot usages for a mix it ALL depends on your system. Especially acid. I've actually loaded up a tune that I was mixing in vegas in acid and did the mix. It felt a bit different then vegas but if you've never used it then performance/quality wise there should be no need to fork over for SX. Unless you feel cooler working with a gui like that! ;)

Quick reminder though when you mix in acid or vegas. There is an audio routing problem that occurs when you feed audio through the "multipurpose fader"or "busses" and have it set to "pre volume". When you try to "solo" an individual audio track you still HEAR the feed from these tracks in your outputs as well as your soloed track. This is a design flaw and will be fixed in 5.0 But for now don't freakout like I did. Its not a bug so just mute the offending busses/assignable fx that you have audio routed to and then click the Ctrl+mute button to unmute them in one shot. Sorry for not catching this sooner.

HTH.

Ed.

---Great news about those enhancements for the Mia for 4.0c! Is that coming soon?---Does "are we there yet" ring a bell...soon.

Subject:RE: Opinions on Acid as an audio mixer

Reply by: dkistner

Date:5/12/2003 5:43:24 AM

The only reason I'd consider SX is if the "professional scoring options" are really superior to what I'm using now: Harmony Assistant. But I haven't been able to determine that. There's an appeal to having everything in one place, but I don't know if I want to shell out those big bucks and go through another big learning curve that SX would require. But, yeah, that SX gui is awesome. Seeing the midi as musical notes in the track! Wow! But HA piped through Fractal Tune Smithy (for just intonation) and into Chainer (for VSTi recording) has been working out quite well.

I just mixed a piece in Acid that I think turned out pretty well: Earth Days. I think the streaming program's encoding went mono on me, but the mp3 has the proper panning. Anyway, I was so thankful I was able to get the mix done in Acid.

Subject:RE: Opinions on Acid as an audio mixer

Reply by: jtuffen

Date:5/12/2003 7:32:59 AM

Just as a note: I recently did a remix project where I was effectively given a 24-track master recording (24, 24-bit mono soundfiles + 3 stereo bounced parts - also 24 bit) and I used Acid to put the mix together - it worked fine... Each file was in the order of 4 minutes long.

Acid's automation facilities were great for that mix too!

john..

Subject:RE: Opinions on Acid as an audio mixer

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:5/12/2003 10:35:54 AM

Diane...

Not wanting to beat a dead horse but you seem to have very specific needs in terms of midi composition in acid...You did fill out the product suggestion page right? AND send them numerous "reminders" of whats missing in 4.0 to have in 5?

Mix sounded great too. Have you taken a listen to acids orchestral cd bundle? I love it! Great sounding arrangements+lots of percussion loops to along with your tune IMHO. It would fill "the bottom" of your mix and would be less "airy". Plus With each passage it would give a better sense of movement[for my tastes ofcourse ;)]. Nice stream too.

Ed.

Subject:RE: Opinions on Acid as an audio mixer

Reply by: tmasten

Date:5/12/2003 2:27:06 PM

I am working on a 5.1 project and I am doing all the mixing in Acid believe it or not. I am writing most of the music in Reason, exporting all of the files out, and mixing them in Acid as one-shots. So far so good.

Subject:RE: Opinions on Acid as an audio mixer

Reply by: dkistner

Date:5/13/2003 5:47:50 AM

Ed, I don't do midi composition in Acid at all. When the ability to arrange midi loops and then export the entire arrangement to a midi file is added (yes, I've requested it), then I will use it as an initial composition/arrangement tool...a "get the notes down" approach. But I record my midi out of a scoring program that allows me to articulate instruments (played/recorded from Chainer/VST via the score's midi out) in real time as I compose, in a way that makes sense to me (none of this pen tool stuff). I don't do piano rolls and the like very well, preferring a traditional scoring environment, so I don't think even if Acid should become the super-duper midi tool, I will do any major compositional refinements or final recording in Acid. But rough down a piece? YES!

Mixing is quite another thing. For various reasons, I prefer to record out individual voice lines to mono and then mix them. For one, it sure is a lot easier to refine, or correct a late-discovered problem in, an instrument to do it that way...or add something later! :)

I'm still very much learning how to work with the frequency spectrum and understand what's appropriate processing-wise for the kind of music I write (i.e., not squashed to hell and back; or how to avoid the volume wars). I'm coming around to the idea that less really can be much more...very light-handed compression only where needed to add clarity to a particular instrument, none of this brickwall limiting business, etc.

I should add that I do these for brainwave entrainment CDs that will always be listened to with headphones, and they should be subtle, not too terribly busy, and perhaps even a little boring. Percussion in "Earth Days?" Hmmm...perhaps a little, lightly. Thanks for the suggestions, and I will check out the orchestrals. Later. I've got to put that mix down for a while because I can't hear it anymore. :) Thanks so much for saying it was a nice mix. I have so much to learn about mixing.