SoFo be sold... -ACID Product Family - MAGIX Community Forums Archive

ACID Product Family

Subject:SoFo be sold... Posted by: waynegee Date:5/2/2003 7:55:20 PM Rumor has it that Sonic Foundry has sold their desktop software(as in Vegas, SF, Acid, CDA, etc.) assets to Sony for $18 million. Sonic Foundry will remain but they will concentrate on rich media for web solutions. Screenblast, here we come.... Can anyone verify? Peter?
Subject:yep, it's true... Reply by: waynegee Date:5/2/2003 8:06:26 PM http://www.quicken.com/investments/news/?p=SOFO
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: dhanjit Date:5/3/2003 3:17:05 AM http://www.sonicfoundry.com/news/ShowRelease.asp?ReleaseID=536&CatID=
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: coolout Date:5/3/2003 3:25:34 AM the plot thickens...
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: waynegee Date:5/3/2003 8:04:09 AM ...or not
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: ATP Date:5/3/2003 9:12:33 AM hmmm.... "Sony ACID" has a weird ring to it. ;) a change of ownership doesn't always mean the products will be discontinued or changed. if the whole department gets taken over as a whole, maybe internally not many things will change. but of course only time will tell. :)
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: Iacobus Date:5/3/2003 1:24:45 PM "A Sony Pictures spokesman said the company expects to keep the 70 Sonic employees at the existing Madison, Wis. operations." (These 70 are in the software aspect of SoFo.) Well, that's encouraging. At least Sony took the smart route and kept them where they should be. Iacobus
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: Jessariah Date:5/4/2003 1:23:47 AM The BIG Q: How is the best (hands-down) Pro-Sumer NLE not only barely known in the video market, but also part of a suite of A/V apps that are at the top of their class (nothing touches Forge & Acid, IMHO)...and the company has to sell them? Tell you what. Two years ago I wanted to be a web designer for a living. With DVD becoming more and more universal and the cable industry floating toward local in-demand programming, I think the Internet-Rich-Media-thing is a bad basket to be putting your eggs into. I've been on Vegas & Acid for two years now. A few high-profile projects later, I'm looking at a new career in audio-video production. My code-crunching buddies are still trying to figure out how to get around Netscape & MAC compatability issues with online media presentation. I think SoFo dropped the wrong baggage. I'm probably wrong...I just hope we don't see wonderful, intuitive apps go the way of the dreaded Sony DVCam codec...
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: coolout Date:5/4/2003 3:54:10 AM yep, it makes you wonder what direction acid is heading. Don't get me wrong i live and die by acid pro. it changed my production style for the better. i still think there were decisions in the development of acid that didn't have the current user base in mind. putting 5.1 development and dare say vsti before multiple inputs, vst, or rewire support was a mistake...period. who actually is mixing in 5.1 in acid? no one i know of. no one by the questions and discussions in this forum. surround was an unrealistic gimmick. the proper monitoring system alone for 5.1 is cost prohibitive for most small guys. the man-hours spent on that should have gone into things that would have made acid of more use to the folks that prefer to use it. so what will happen under sony's direction? will they keep acid and vegas as underrated "pro-sumer" apps or will they add the features to make them unstoppable and put in the marketing muscle to compete with the big boys? if anyone from the sony or the development team is lisening... 1.) add rewire to vegas and acid. while you're at it bundle a stripped down acid 2.0 or 3.0 with rewire in the next vegas release. then you'll be able to go toe-to-toe with apple's final cut pro and soundtrack apps. 2.) add the multiple input functions of vegas audio in acid. add vst support (finally). make it an option to have the track sliders vertical next to the master and bus faders. hire that guy who's making all the OPT plug-ins, bundle them with the acid pro 5.0. then go ahead and take on cubase and sonar. hell...go ahead and add loop triggering and arrangement and go after ableton live while you're at it. the acid GUI is superior to all of these apps. it's uncluttered and simple to use. it would be no contest.
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: Iacobus Date:5/4/2003 11:18:25 AM I'm not sure I understand the arguments here. The 70 software people at SoFo are staying there. That means it's basically business as usual, but now with Sony's backing. It wouldn't surprise me to see Sony put their marketing skills behind the software line on top of it. That means more exposure. Quite frankly, if anyone gets to taste Vegas on a wider scale, it just might be bye-bye to Adobe's hideous Premiere. (Those people wouldn't know a good GUI if it fell from the sky onto their collective nose and wiggled.) And forget Apple. They think they're so hip it hurts. (My apologies to Mac users.) They also apparently think everyone has money to burn. Again, if anyone wants to see something in a particular SoFo title, let them know via the product suggestion form, as they can't read your mind. Believe it or not, they do read the suggestions above everything else. Keeping that "LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!!" thread alive is getting a tad annoying. I think everyone gets the picture now. It's hard enough trying to wade through posts and responses so I can keep those who inquire as informed as possible. Iacobus
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: coolout Date:5/4/2003 3:51:47 PM hey MD, don't get your panties in a wad. i was just questioning management decisions and the direction on SOFO products. as a paying customer, that's something i'm allowed to do in this forum. i sent in a product suggestion form at least SIX months ago, can i at least get a acid pro 4.0c? for the record, the "let's start a petition for rewire" thread was dead until it was bumped up by a SOFO EMPLOYEE (joel to be exact) and not by me. so i agree, they get the picture. i just couldn't resist being the 150th post, considering someone beat me to the 100th post. i got a good chuckle out of that. i'm sure the rewire thread has to be a big joke around the SOFO office, but at least my efforts worked. protesting is the american way. i'm all for participating in discussions and helping other folks out on this forum, but i refuse to answer the simple questions which indicate that the person doesn't own or haven't read any instructions on how to use acid. if someone's going to use pirated software or refuse to read the manual, they should at least have the balls to figure it out themselves. i wonder if sony decided to move this forum and required a valid product registration like the reason forum would we get posts that ask: how do i record vocals in acid? how do connect a midi controller? how do i use a vsti? MD, you have to admit these folks are shady. as mac user, i've owned four and still use my imac, i accept your apology. you have it all wrong though, the problem with apple is the strong leadership without the users best interest in mind. apple is basically a cult and macs are wonderful if you have a brand new one. the mac press often in the past has referred to microsoft as "the evil empire", but in reality apple is more like the borg collective...think different...think like us...abandon your current OS...buy all new apps and hardware. the migration to OS X for audio users was totally screwed up. oh and i forgot to ask: where's the Maruuk spin on the sony buyout?
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: Iacobus Date:5/4/2003 6:39:05 PM Please understand, it was not meant to be a confrontational statement. I'm allowed to challenge statements as a fellow user to at least speculate (that's what it all really boils down to anyway) some positive reasons for the decision that was made. It would be nice to hear comments from SoFo people like Peter and Joel about all this. That would really end the speculation right there. I guarantee there are newbies who officially bought ACID who don't have a clue to how ACID functions. I get questions all the time over at the DigiTech forums that aren't even ACID-related, but rather questions like, How do I get started? What software/hardware would I need? Computer-based recording is a brave new world for them. Hell, even I didn't know how to use a VSTi at first. (Digital audio was always more my forte than MIDI.) Iacobus
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: Jessariah Date:5/4/2003 10:55:38 PM To me, it boils down to one thing: Focus, focus, focus... First thing - I got blasted in this forum a few weeks back for daring to suggest that professionals "use more than one app to get it done." The nay-sayer pointed to the over-priced/over-rated Pro Tools as the one-stop solution. I'm sorry, but I've heard GREAT stuff from people who are using a combination of SoFo's Pro Apps and Sonar or Cubase to create it. The days of the five-figure must-have software are done. They used to say that SCSI and RAID systems were a must for video...how many of you are doing just fine on your 7200rpm IDE drives...? Acid: THE looping app. Intuitive. Virtually no learning curve. MIDI freaks go somewhere else -- this is a LOOPING APPLICATION. Combine it with your other apps. Add Rewire, drop the rest of the garbage and focus on what made it the top of its class to begin with. Sound Forge: Version 6 blows anything else away. The Wavelab die-hards are allowed their darling, but as a 4.5 lover and 5.0 hater, I think 6.0 is absolute perfection. Vegas: I told a colleague (and Premiere user) about Vegas a year ago. A few months ago, he decided to download the trial of Vegas for giggles. He is now a staunch Vegas advocate and keeps Premiere on his system for those occasional times he needs to render an .avi out to QuickTime. Again, how can a company that has put out dominating products be in such $$$ trouble. If they keep their original programmers and have a little more to spend on getting the word out, I think there's a bright future for all of us.
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: stakeoutstudios Date:5/5/2003 9:07:31 AM promising times but I guess we can't really tell what's going to happen, and I have a feeling the people at Sonic Foundry have no idea what's going to happen either, as they would have responded by now. Sonic Foundry have given their car keys to Sony and have little idea where or how the car will be driven. We'll just have to wait and see. I'm optimistic. Concerned that it's Sony pictures as opposed to the division of Sony that does all their high-end audio stuff though... Jason
Subject:I just wish... Reply by: jam Date:5/5/2003 10:37:20 AM no SoFo product - especialy Acid Pro - will be discountinied or reduced in features. By the way, it's a long time now we wait for an 4.0c update for Acid, don't you think? jam
Subject:RE: I just wish... Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:5/5/2003 1:27:25 PM I know this isn't what you want to hear but "ALL good things come to those who wait" really applys now. Patience dude. Ed.
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: Iacobus Date:5/5/2003 1:31:25 PM Jess makes a good point. I remember Sonic Foundry selling an "all-in-one" package a few years back. (Forgot what it was called.) It included all the major apps (ACID Pro, Vegas (then called "Vegas Pro"), Sound Forge, etc.). I don't think it ever sold all that well, hence it was discontinued. I think part of the apps' appeal is that they're designed to be modular—you can use ACID Pro with Sound Forge, or use ACID Pro with WaveLab. I suppose the argument could be made that having an all-in-one jackknife solution would keep problems down, but I think keeping options open is what it's all about. Iacobus
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: merlyn60 Date:5/5/2003 3:13:39 PM The question still remains.....where does this acquisition by Sony leave us? Its encouraging to hear that Sony "plans" to keep the current SoFo employees, but we have to keep in mind that SoFo is no longer steering the ship....Sony is. Personally, I don't think Sony laid down money for SoFo unless they thought that the company was worth 18 million. Having said this, I would believe that its safe to assume that ripping the apps apart and re-building them into something else isn't in the cards. However, being a die hard SoFo product user, I would really like to hear how involved Sony will be with the everyday decisions at SoFo and whether or not SoFo engineers will be taking direction from Sony engineers now, or will they just provide monetary support to SoFo for better product development and better product visibility. I guess time will tell, but I'm anxious to hear from somebody on the inside. Merlyn
Subject:Sonic Foundry Exits Desktop Software Market Reply by: FlickBookHero Date:5/5/2003 5:59:43 PM From Harmony Central: http://news.harmony-central.com/News/2003/Sony-Sonic-Foundry.html By reading this, I get the impression that SF will be exiting the desktop software biz (or...leaving it in the hands of Sony) and concentrating on Media Site Live. Or maybe not? Peter Stone. soundsichiban.com
Subject:RE: yep, it's true... Reply by: dkistner Date:5/5/2003 7:59:37 PM "I have a feeling the people at Sonic Foundry have no idea what's going to happen either, as they would have responded by now." That, or they're not "supposed to" respond.
Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry Exits Desktop Software Market Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/5/2003 10:11:38 PM A lot of good, thoughtful posts above. We all saw this comin so there's no surprises. What we would pay to be in the first Sony/ex-SOFO managers' meeting. That's where Sony's agenda will begin to unfold. I wonder if Kutaragi-san will be involved. Very cool guy. He was behind the Playstation hardware, and now Prez and CEO of SCE. He told me once, "What size your terrorvision?" I said, "I dunno, 27" I think." He laughs uproariously. "Mine 52 inches!" Ok, you had to have been there. Good news: Sony cash rich, Sony got game, Sony got the vision thing, Sony did incredible job with Playstation 3rd-party software management. Hey, it coulda been Steinberg or Microshaft. Bad news: Sony pushing stoopid web apps for Blast! Godawful. Dumb concept. Sony is not a consumer software pub (ever try the digital video app garbage bundled with Vaio's? Sufferin suckytrash!!), Sony likely has no vision of Pure Acid w/Rewire--though the 70 left in the Alamo have had it beaten into them by us. Bottom line: About as good as could have been expected. Rimas had reamed us bigtime with 4.0 and that was a rusty trawler in search of an iceberg. Man the lifeboats, all hands abandon ship. There's lights on the horizon. Just don't get caught in the propwash when she goes down.
Subject:RE: SoFo be sold... Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/6/2003 11:41:16 AM It's been said that people don't buy computers, they buy app support systems. Sony's always had that backwards: people don't buy software, they buy candy for their hardware. Hardware was always king at Sony, until they encountered the wild and wacky world of console gaming, in which you lose money on the hardware to sell razor blades in the form of games to the unquenchable thumb support systems known as boys. But they still see software as necessary carrot to drive the horse to buy their computers. Hence this telling series of headlines in this morning's Vaio newsletter: Make your VAIO PC a music machine/A musical world on your desktop/Personally organized MP3 music/Portable CD recording plus DVD/Hyper-fast MiniDisc music maker/Make your desktop a concert hall You can see where this is all going: Make your own dance music in seconds!/Sony SonicBlast Editing Suite!/Direct and edit your own movie!/Be a Hollywood Star in your own home! I mean, don't be surprised if what Sony really wants is Super Duper Music Looper™--NOT Acid Pro. A mass market lowest-common-denominator enabling toy for children or sonically challenged adults, and compatible with a suite of online enhancements and Planet Waves support and community interaction over at--you guessed it--SCREENBLAST! Screenblast fails because it proceeds from a false assumption (but one which is very "Japanese" at its core concept): everybody wants to be an artist, they just don't have tools appropriate to their skills in which to make their art. I know Sony has dabbled in this before with SOFO, but never with conviction and massive online support and community tools. I've been in lots of meetings with Sony folk, and they just go nuts over stuff like this. No matter how much you tell em about American kids as mainly a passive consumer dynamic, they keep mixing up what they know about the Japanese youth market with ours and extrapolating themselves into a marketing cul-de-sac. But this does make some sense: Sony has never been interested in anything but mass market, and poring over some beat tune with 12 VST softsynths and 72 Acid tracks ReWired to 3 other apps with a melting DSP farm in your PCI slot is decidely NOT a mass market experience. Bottom line: Follow the money. The money is in mass market. Acid Pro is high-end prosumer artsy fartsy fringe market with 5 major snarling hungry well-funded publisher wolves all vying for the same prey. You. Rimas got the leftovers, and couldn't survive on that. Sony wants SOFO Digi-Desktop for Crackerjack prizes. With each Viao you not one, not two, but THREE audio/video wonderapps which will take you to the brink of stardom. But wait, there's more! With each Viao you get a free one-year subscription to Screenblast! where your creations can be shared and even SOLD into the happy community of fellow geniuses. Add to all that the very-near-future vision from Sony of interactive digital broadband TV's with the PS3 chip built right in and you've got an SDML/Vegas/Forge A/V remix monster on your HD TV. Why is that important to Sony? Because now they're jacked into you in the living room, not the home office. And what's the nature of the living room? Say it with me now... MASS-MAR-KET!
Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry Exits Desktop Software Market Reply by: R_Herrero Date:5/9/2003 9:13:24 AM i hate to see acid discontinued.. cos i really like this sequencer. i made llots of tracks from this excellent loop seq. for those ppl who wait for acid upgrade to v5.0 dont u think that is a bit naive. Sonic foundry doesnt make any statement on still supporting the acid/vegas after their softw. been bought by sony. I dont see anything on this website that said they still support it and upgrade to v5? sony may have lots of money like u think they would backing the acid pro marketing & developments, but the way they see it sonic foundry lost lots of money on acid/vegas etc.. so why would sony still developing it from their business point of view.. so it doesnt make any sense of sonic foundry coming up with v5.0 isnt it?
Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry Exits Desktop Software Market Reply by: Iacobus Date:5/9/2003 3:07:14 PM Sony has channels. Lots of marketing channels. Why would Sony bother to buy Vegas (or ACID or Sound Forge for that matter) if they weren't going to continue developing it? Better yet, why abandon the faithful current user base? That's out and out suicide. Why abandon the current code just to make some "light and fluffy" version, or no new version at all? (Similarly, why upkeep the software team at SoFo?) Sony wouldn't shell out $18 mil just to say, "OK, pack it up." Based on what Sony has said, I still stand by what I've said. Sony wants to play hardball and compete. I think they've got a great head start. Iacobus
Subject:RE: Sonic Foundry Exits Desktop Software Market Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/9/2003 7:40:21 PM While 18 mil is pocket change to Sony, they are a very forward-thinking company. My instincts say their vision for Acid & friends is neither a straight Sooper Dooper Looper mass market wank nor a predictable 5.0-with-ReWire middle of the road course. The toy direction is still not really mass market, in that looping of ANY sort is still a niche market, no matter how you slice it. And the same old semi-pro app dev track was a losing proposition for SOFO, would be same for SOnyFO. Everybody else had mo' better, and if we argue it weren't better, it sure was mo'. Sony intends a surprise twist in all this--to delineate these excellent products from the tough competition possibly in tandem with some hardware or hybridization. Or a surprise utility like ReWire, but different. A third track that nobody sees comin. Cuz that's the kinda guys they are.

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