Subject:Getting the drums to "kick"

Posted by: addiepower

Date:5/8/2003 10:25:29 PM

Hi, I use acid as a worksheet to write my drum tracks, mostly using acid loops but sometimes other one shots etc. Most songs are rock (guitar) orientated. I them export the finished drum track to logic and record properly. My problem is that alone the drums sound really really good, but once I add the bass, guitars and build up the track, the drums seem to lose their "omf", they sound slightly "tinny". Any suggestions on an overall EQ, is it a problem with my "rendering", what other tricks could I use to make these drums really kick in the mix,
Thanks from Adam Power.

Subject:RE: Getting the drums to "kick"

Reply by: ElektroFitz

Date:5/9/2003 2:15:28 AM

Excellent question!

Drum tracks are the hardest of all to mix down properly, especially when you're dealing with prepackaged ACID drum loops. Here is why:

From a mixing and recording standpoint, drum tracks are all about tuning, EQ, delay, and/or reverb. I can remember back when I was a studio musician the drummer would spend lots of time tuning his drums and then working out the EQ, reverb, and other aspects with the engineer and producer. Also, he would be confined to the drum room for the entire session -- because should he open the door, the air pressure in the room will change the pressure against the drum heads and alter their tuning and other aspects. Now, let's take a look at the standard, prepackaged ACID drum track (which is a great thing if used correctly)...

The typical track consists of the kick, share, hat, and possibly some toms -- all of which are incorporated together into a single WAV file with its own, all-encompassing EQ setting (even though each drum might have been set differently during initial recording). Think about it. You have a WAV file that, when used as a stand-alone track, contains settings that compromise among the settings of the different drums. If the settings are to bring out the higher frequencies (hats, snare), then something on the lower end (kick, toms) will be compromised. And, vice versa.

Also, there is the issue of volume to deal with -- lower and midrange frequencies are louder than the higher frequencies. If you were to EQ the loop so as to give the kick some "oomph," you would greatly diminish, or even drown out, the hats and the upper-half of the snare. If you were to lower the highs so as to bring out the lows, your highs would be dull and cripple the stereophonic effect to a certain extent.

All that having been said, the ACID drum loops are pretty much upper-mid oriented -- thus leaving a lot to be desired from the "oomph" standpoint. Okay, so how do you fix this?

There are many ways, but here is one that I use frequently. I load the original drum loop into Sound Forge (chopper will work as well) and cut out everything but the highs, then save them to a separate track. Next, I reopen the original loop and remove everything but the mids -- again, saving them to their own track. And finally, I do the same with the lows. Next, I take each individual track (high, mid, low) and clean it up...removing hiss and rumble, de-essing, and whatever else it might take. I then set the EQ and reverb and/or delay how I want it, then save the track. The end result is the SAME drum loop I had to begin with (although three separate tracks, they are playing at once and rendering the same beat as before), but with all hiss and dirt removed, and EQ, reverb, etc. settings specific to each individual drum. Don't get me wrong -- there's nothing at all wrong with ACID drum loops; I love them -- but they just need to be doctored if you're to achieve the best possible audio quality.

Here is another thing I do -- which is somewhat easier than what I mentioned above. I'll leave the main drum track as-is, but add a separate track with nothing but bass drum (kick) beats -- thump-thump-thump-thump. I'll play this "thump track" along with the main drum track, adjusting the EQ so it fits the lower level of the the main drum track (it sounds horrible if you don't), and then bring its volume up to that of the main drum track. If EQ'ed correctly and the volume is up enough, you'll have all the "oomph" you want. Since I'm on a drum tangent, here is some more....

The next thing, which is also a real PITA, are the ACID drum "rolls." Apply FX to the roll so that the EQ matches the EQ of the snare, identically. Remember, a roll IS the snare! Also, compare the volume of the last pop of the roll with the volume on your snare. It should be the same (to achieve reality), but lots of people keep their rolls a bit louder than the snare (which is not natural-sounding).

As for the cymbal crashes, they can and usually do drown out just about anything -- because most people forget the sound frequencies they use and end up setting the volume too high. Keep your crash cymbal EQs close (but not necessarily equal to) the EQ of your hats, and keep the cymbal crash output at about 6-8dB LESS than the main drum track. If you're working with a "ride" cymbal, then focus your EQs on the upper mids and keep the volume equal to that of your hats.

The end result of all of this -- the drum tracks in your song should sound no different than the drum tracks in a studio recording; that is, a full drumset with every drum set precisely where it should be to sound natural and studio-quality.

Subject:RE: Getting the drums to "kick"

Reply by: addiepower

Date:5/9/2003 7:57:26 AM

Thank you very much, I can't believe how thorough you are!! This is exactly the kind of answer I need. I understand fully what you are saying and will have a play around with it. I have spent a fair bit of time in studios recording myself, and although I am not a drummer, I know how much effort and time goes into what you were saying earlier, so can appreciate that a fair amount of effort needs to go into these acid loops to get them to sound "studio like" again in the final mixes.
Thanks again,
Adam.

Subject:RE: Getting the drums to "kick"

Reply by: ElektroFitz

Date:5/9/2003 9:13:15 AM

No prob.... anytime!

Getting a true, studio-quality drum track in ACID (or anything that is based on WAV files) is a pain in the a**, but if you're after that kind of precision, it's worth it. In fact, I'm working on an ACID drum track right now, and have been for several days -- getting everything to sound just right (very time-consuming). Once I get all of that fine-tuned, then it's over to the bass line where I'll do the same thing.

I'm not a drummer either -- but having been a studio musician for quite some time, I've become familiar with the different musician roles and peculiarities (and, no offense, but I've always found drummers to be quite peculiar -- perhaps it's because they like to beat on things haha).

Subject:RE: Getting the drums to "kick"

Reply by: addiepower

Date:5/9/2003 9:17:01 AM

As a matter of interest, what commands do you use in sound forge to "cut out the highs" for eg. Is it something to do with the auto region? I usually use wavelab for my wav editing, but do own sound forge also.
Adam

Subject:RE: Getting the drums to "kick"

Reply by: Twinstates

Date:5/9/2003 9:59:14 AM

I have just read the post on drum treatment and the suggestion regarding eq'ing another track consisting of the kick seems rather time consuming when all you are (effectively doing) is boosting selected low frequencies. So why not just use an eq and boost the low frequencies you want in the track? BTW Please explain if I am missing something fundamental here?

The best suggestion would be to turn the drums up. That will solve 90% of your problems as it sounds like you are working the drums out, then adding the rest of the instruments and therefore prolly making each instrument slightly louder than the last.

Just try turning your drums up by 1-4 dB's. I would bet that makes them sound better. If they sound good on their own and crap when you add other instruments then it's either 1. The drums are too quiet, or 2. There are frequencies in the other instruments that are interfering with your drums. Assuming that everything is recorded properly then 2 shouldn't come into play too much but you can also try rolling off a little low end 250hz and lower with a low shelf (not too much though, try 2-5 dB's, btw don't do this to the bass).

Also a couple of other things, 1. get a sonograph. Steinbergs spectrograph is cool, make sure that on the sonograph reading there isn't too much in the way of overlapping freqs in the low end). 2. If you haven't already, get a decent monitoring set-up, I know that this isn't an easy fix, or cheap but if you spend a bit of money on a good monitoring set-up this will improve your mixes more than anything else you can do.

hope this helps.

TS

Subject:RE: Getting the drums to "kick"

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:5/9/2003 2:49:05 PM

Using a compressor of some sort will add some kick to the...er...kick. :)

Iacobus

Subject:RE: Getting the drums to "kick"

Reply by: ElektroFitz

Date:5/9/2003 5:15:16 PM

Addiepower, what I usually do (as a staring-point) to cut the highs with Sound Forge is to use the parametric and/or paragraphic EQ factory presets. If that doesn't do the trick, then I just readjust the factory presets and save them as my own modified presets.

For efficiency's sake, I created an effects chain that I call "clean-up," which I run on each song at the beginning of the mastering process. It takes care (most times) of hiss, rumble, plosives, and all those other annoying things. The idea is to get the song as clean as possible BEFORE normalizing and compressing -- otherwise, the normalization and compression tools would include those "trash sounds" in their calculations.

Doing the initial clean-up with a chain makes it where I only have to press one button and it's automatically done. Of course there are exceptions, but my cleanup chain works with most of my stuff.

Subject:RE: Getting the drums to "kick"

Reply by: buffalosnout

Date:5/10/2003 11:24:09 AM

The idea of a "clean up" chain sounds interesting, ElectroFitz. If it's not giving away too much, what all do you include in this process? How do you keep from "throwing the baby out with the bathwater," so to speak?