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Subject:Another ACID Killer?
Posted by: retrobeats
Date:4/24/2003 5:33:08 PM
Just thought I would point out that only one more program reamains keeping me in the land of the PC now. It used to be : Acid and Gigastudio, now it just may be Giga. Take a look. http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/soundtrack.html peace out |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: dhanjit
Date:4/24/2003 7:04:47 PM
It seems to be a component of Final Cut Pro 4 and not available separately, in which case it's $999! |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: [r]Evolution
Date:4/25/2003 1:36:37 AM
VEGAS 4.0 steps all over FCP & is hundreds of dollars cheaper. You can almost buy the entire SonicFoundry line for the price you would pay for the PROPRIETARY Mac softwares. Believe me I switched back to PC after thinking "The Mac is pretty..I want one." Now, "I just want to throw one." I love how people say you need a Mac if you are gonna do any kind of 'graphics' work yet most professional studios I've been in run the PC platform. With the exception of the 'pro-sumer' guys that believe the hype. --Also they want to make their home studio look pretty with a cutesy designed Mac-- But anyways... go with what you know and what you are comfortable working with. You will be a lot more productive. Just my opinions., Lamont |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: coolout
Date:4/25/2003 1:38:12 AM
OH MY GOD!!! OH MY GOD!!! just when i though apple had totally messed up, out of nowhere this comes out. it's like the christmas present you wanted, but never got as a kid. too late but wonderful nonetheless. i wonder how long emagic had been working on this. if this had just come out for OS 9 with rewire and vst support two or three years ago i would have never jumped ship to acid 4 and XP. i'll sober up and look at it with clarity. from what i can tell by looking at the GUI and the specs it's basically an acid 2.0 clone. no chopper or beatmapper, no midi, no busses, limited automation and certainly no rewire. plus it's part of a $1000 bundle. BOO-HOO!!! apple totally screwed it's audio fans in the transition to OS X. imagine if everyone who was using win 98/ME couldn't use ANY of their old audio apps or effects by running XP. "it's for the best" they told us. yeah, right maybe 5 years down the road. it'll be at least that long before i buy another mac. if they were smart they would have integrated Soundtrack with Logic and kept the vst effects. too little, too late, for way too much. |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: Spirit
Date:4/25/2003 1:53:41 AM
Other than being new this thing looks to be only a shadow of Acid - more for people just starting to tinker with audio. Hate those cheesey icons. |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: retrobeats
Date:4/25/2003 5:31:42 AM
ok, but let's be somewhat fair here ok? I love the PC, I do, it works great and beats a dual MAC 1.4 on most benchmarks, so much so that ADOBE had on their website the push toward PC. On the pro side though, it's still MAC based, Media Composer ($100,000.00+) are preffered systems in edit bays mostly on MAC still to this day. True, there are more and more PC systems coming on in that area, mostly with the likes of Lucas, Renderman(Sun/Solaris) created by PIXEL Ent. (Bugs Life, etc, etc, with a special thanks to AMD. (note AMD and SUN now working together as well) and there is a new 64bit workstation Opteron/nforce3 out as we speak, but still, most macs in Hollywood, New York. Now, on to the PC world. Giga 3.0 coming soon, we'll see how that fairs. Presently, Cubase SX you can use video, but no audio track or OMF, Nuendo, very limited midi capabilities, Logic (gone now), Samplitude, ok, but not great in midi, Vegas great, but no scoring, ACID, great but no VST/REwire (or score) and usings linking via emulator old midi drivers from 1997. Now, the two VERY things that most of the MAC people I work with (and these are major studios (Santa Monica, Los Angeles, Hollywood (SSI) when they speak about the PC in a positive light, they mention 1st and foremost, no gigastudio for the MAC, and from time to time, there is some mention of ACID, however, this is fading as ACID, (with out the proper rewire/vst support) not to mention the competitiveness) is slowy being used less and less (note SF dropping media division but loops go on and on...why? Loops can be used in this new APple Program, ABleton Live, Steinbergs REMIX, etc, etc). The point is, MACS started to lose the upper hand, they may still if they fail if a) they fail on the 64 bit paith and AMD does not, and b)Protools/AVID start to pick up support in PC land due to MAC/Logic/Final Cut pro. Now, if GIGA studio, or a platform just as strong that the likes of Hans Z will stand behind, combined with Logic and this "soundtrack" this puts a new spin on everything. XP was supposed to bring the PC user to a level of MACness if you will as only one set of drivers needed to be written, however, what is still commonplace, is that there is still no one program that you can use as a package for the way you work. Sometimes I need 1 gigabye of samples loaded (strings for score) on GIGA, sometimes I need to score to picture (Nuendo) while jumping back and forth from CUBASE SX, and sometimes commercials, and radio spots need the quickness of ACID, but I still have to jump to either Nuendo, or VEGAS and if you ever spent some time with REASON or for that matter ABleton Live (which is very powerful once you know how to use it (It also has REWIRE), I'm finding I'm using Acid less and less, yet continue to still use the loops. (see above comment regard SF division vs loop division) So, my point is that MAC's seem to have come one step closer to achieving that goal. With LOGIC now under their control, I would NOT be surprised to see a sampler (besides EX) that can read GIGA samples directly (as opposed to re-rendering via Halion (awful) or Kontakt. Just some thoughts... |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: retrobeats
Date:4/25/2003 3:41:09 PM
My point was that MAC has become one step closer to an all- in - one solution.... 1) Have a program that Loops like ACID. 2) Have a Program with OMF support/EDL 3) Have a program that supports strong Midi. 4) Have a program that imports video/audio 5) Have a program that allows the editing of the video (you can't do that on Nuendo for that matter or ACID - and even if you could, it has a lack of rewire and midi) 6) Have a program that allows VST. 7)Have a program that allows Rewire. The winner (in my book) is the platform with Giga studio, loop player, video editing (cut and paste, fade video), OMF/EDL lists, VST/Rewire, strong midi support. |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:4/25/2003 6:38:18 PM
I'm copying and pasting my response to this vst topic that I posted in the rewire thread... Retro... When you say VST do you mean vst plugin support? If so you already have it by downloading a vst-dx wrapper. Fxpansion used to sell one but it got bought out from cakewalk...that company that you don't like too much. But there is another one from directxciter[spelling???]. Do a search and you should find it. There is NO need for sofo to waste development money on this. Rewire...yes. Hardware controller interface...yes. Full VSTi support [meaning multiple outs per vsti,cc controll,vsti envelope automation]...yes. Stable and bug free...priceless ;) Ed. |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:4/25/2003 6:50:04 PM
Now was that so hard? http://www.spinaudio.com/products_vstdxwrapperpro.html Fxpansion has sold its wrapper to cakewalk so I don't have any idea whats up with that. But I've read many positive reviews about this one as well. Don't hold your breath on sofo adding Acid and Vegas together...That topic was beaten to death many times over. What myself and others are PUSHING for is to rewire acid to vegas and have the BEST of both worlds at your finger tips. You have no excuse from this point on peter. ;) Ed. |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:4/25/2003 9:55:17 PM
Not to take another stab at Apple or anything, but is it me, or is "Soundtrack" a blatant ACID rip-off (only not as innovative)? On the plus side, I guess this is what Mac users have been clamoring for. Time to cough up 999 clams. Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: drbam
Date:4/25/2003 11:06:39 PM
<<Fxpansion has sold its wrapper to cakewalk so I don't have any idea whats up with that. But I've read many positive reviews about this one as well.>> I just purchased it a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't find where to buy it on the fxpansion site and its not up on Cakewalk site yet. I emailed fxpansion and they got right back to me with a link to do the purchase. Its a great product! drbam |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: dhanjit
Date:4/26/2003 4:38:48 AM
Link to buy the fxpansion adapter if you're a registered Sonar user: http://store.yahoo.com/cakewalkdirect/cakvstaddowf.html Link if you're not: http://store.yahoo.com/cakewalkdirect/cakvstaddow.html |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: gjn
Date:4/26/2003 7:11:19 AM
potential...yes. present...no. but your preoccupation is true. in the world pc, acid4 is a remarkable soft...but less complete than all séquenceurs of the market. and for the function " tracker" products like ableton arrive. soundforge 6 remains a reference on pc. vegas4 lack of ..for statégy the audio. yesterday it had the technical advance in audio...today ,samplitude7,nuendo2,protools,etc...are superior. me, I trust sonic foundry. he is important that the enterprise wins money.. it will yet be necessary that quickly she/it reinvested in the functions audios...if sofo wishes to remain on this market. the technical quality exists... it is necessary to know it merely so is profitable... |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: coolout
Date:4/26/2003 9:42:21 AM
i think the mac is a great all-in-one solution only if you're just getting started. every mac user i know hated the transition to os x. it was completely and utterly not backwards compatible for audio apps. that's just foul. i still don't understand why everyone treats the video market so much better than audio. are they're really that much more film students than garage bands, DJs, and singer/songwriters? this was the main reason i jumped ship to win xp. apple wiped the slate clean for audio and eliminated all the technology that worked well (asio, oms, sound manager) for stuff that works even better but with no concern for current users. i think this is the biggest flaw of apple...slash and burn. they don't value smooth transitions for loyal customers. "here's our new, wonderful, gorgeous, rock-solid operating system...p.s. - none of your current audio apps will work with it. don't worry, the developers will catch up in a couple of years, but you'll have to buy everything all over again." emagic even took vst effects out of logic. i've owned four macs and i can't even use my old trackball, much less any of my old external peripherals that work fine (zip drive, burner, midi interface) without spending another 20-50 bucks each for adapters. imagine if every xp computer had only usb and nothing else. macs are for newbies and the rich who can afford complete upgrades...no one else. i can't wait for apple to screw everyone again in five years or so, while my copy of acid, uad card, and my waves plugs will still run on whatever version of windows is out. this is why soundtrack is NOT an acid-killer. the best they could do is offer it as a stand alone app for under $100. so every new mac user could have the power acid 2.0, while windows users will be at 5.0. |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: retrobeats
Date:4/26/2003 4:18:10 PM
Well just have to see how well it intergrates with their version of Logic and final cut pro. Here's the clincher for me. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but there are some rumors flying around that mac will have something that will clinch more market share in the next few years, remember, they are also (like AMD) going 64 bit, and if they get it out before AMD takes hold, we'll see the same people now (Media Composer Avid Editing Bays) go from present Dual G4 to 64 bit. Think about this, Apple has always been more successful at garning the creative market, always. Only when AMD came on board did the PC go from the spreadsheet data base machine to a creative workstation. I am very PRO PC, no matter what my posts may indicate. In a nutshell, what I believe is that the first platform that offers Acid style looping, gigastudio (or better) sampling, video scoring AND EDITING (cut video), superior software for audio and midi recording with OPEN 3rd party hardware support, will be the winner. Perhaps Acid and Vegas need to be combined and then sold to Steinberg/Pinnacle? Then again, good things may happen (for Nuendo users) as Pinnacle (video editing) did buy Steinberg and this could put a huge DENT in VEGAS, perhaps SF can sell the ACID source code to steinberg? It's just that I tend to leave toward the PC right now (even though most of my clients (trailer houses, production companies) use Macs, but feel that Apple has always been known for their intergration with software and combine that with the fact that they purchased LOGIC, that they have final cut pro, that they may purchase UNIVERSAL MUSIC, and now have an acid style interface, just puts them one step closer. It's just so silly that we can't, to this day, use a program that can edit video, export video (RM vs MPG, vs quicktime vs NTSC), track loops, sample, use VST plugins, have OMF support and use rewire all in one. |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: retrobeats
Date:4/26/2003 4:25:18 PM
PPS. Did you also know that they guy who invented ACID now works for APPLE? This should speak boatloads. See, SF problem is they never really go into the midi section soon enough ( a little too much too late) whereas Apple has the Logic Team (which always had video support), Final Cut Pro (video), now the Acid Guru, as well as many many years of building systems for Pro Tools, Avid Media Composer workstations. I mean, I can't get into that much, but I can tell you this, even the vegas target market is considered a pro-sumer division, but it just happens to be a market that does indeed sell so when someone comes along and wants OMF, or better synch functions, we tend to not be heard. |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: retrobeats
Date:4/27/2003 3:30:46 AM
Ok, downloaded the VST wrapper, but became soon aware that I did not make myself clear. When I spoke of VST, what I meant was having ACID as a VST intrument, not using VST plug-ins. You see, without VST or at least REWIRE, it's almost useless to use in Nuendo or Cubase SX (or even VEGAS) for that matter. Why use it in Cubase SX/Nuendo you say? So I can use it with Reason, Kontakt, Gigastudio, Virtual Guitarist, Ilio Trilogy, Ilio Atomosphere, NI Abysynth instead of a stand alone program. |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: coolout
Date:4/27/2003 12:39:59 PM
retro i feel your pain from lack of rewire. everyone knows that, but Kontakt, Virtual Guitarist, Trilogy, Atomosphere, and Abysynth are all VSTi and will work in Acid Pro 4.0b. gigastudio really needs a dedicated computer although you if you have a capable mult-client soundcard and a beefy system it's possible to run giga with an asio app on the same pc. that leaves only use with reason and of course being able to sync and process acid with a dedicated audio sequencer like cubase as the main reasons for needing rewire. rewire frees acid of it's few, but noticable limitations. with that said, what ever happened to 4.0c? will the vsti volume bug ever be fixed? |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: SonicJG
Date:4/29/2003 12:18:30 PM
coolout- I've been scouring the forums today, and have seen several references from you to the VSTi volume bug, but never more than a one-line description of what it actually is. Could you please explain in detail, or point to the thread with the original explanation? We can't fix it if we don't know what it is or how to make it happen. Thanks, Joel |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: coolout
Date:4/29/2003 3:10:32 PM
thanks for paying attention joel. i sent this to support many months ago. it's a pretty easy bug to find. just don't try this with headphones on or you'll literally feel my pain. 1. open up a project and add a soft synth. 2. enable real-time MIDI and select your MIDI input device in the soft synth window. (i don't understand why you guys didn't make these global settings, most people use the same MIDI controller everytime.) 3. anyways, start your sequence, play your vsti like normal, run through some patches, and of course adjust your the volume of the vsti to match the track using the appropriate fader on the acid mixer. 4. now, if you stop the sequence and play the vsti (because you enabled real time MIDI) while the sequence is stopped it plays at FULL VOLUME!!! OUCH!!! i usually immediately hit the volume slider on my oxygen 8 or turn down the fader on my outboard mixer, but really these are way too many steps just find a patch and play a bassline. the only other option is to stream the whole sequence and open it in another host. in my other hosts vsti are handled much better. everything is like that rotisserie grill infomercial...set it and forget it. honestly if this was fixed in a 4.0c release that would be cool, but if acid had rewire it wouldn't need vsti capability anyways. can i have both? |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: SonicJG
Date:4/30/2003 4:41:24 PM
Coolout- The VSTi volume issue you reported was fixed about a month ago, and for 4.0c, the volume levels on the synth bus fader will affect both the MIDI keyboard input levels and the levels being sent from tracks, rather than only affecting the latter. Joel |
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Subject:RE: Another ACID Killer?
Reply by: coolout
Date:5/1/2003 5:36:09 AM
joel, it's really great to see you guys are working hard to make acid better. what are the chances of making the real-time midi and input midi device selections global? i don't know about everyone else but to me it annoying and very "unacid-like" having to remember to click two extra boxes everytime i choose to play a vsti. and what about having the transport in the midi edit window actually synced with the main transport? i'm nitpicking, but if i have to wait for 5.0 for rewire then i might as well voice my preferences. thanks again for your time, coolout |