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Subject:Monitor Speakers
Posted by: buffalosnout
Date:4/12/2003 11:10:32 AM
It seemed as if the discussion on sound cards was turning to monitoring, so I started a fresh discussion for that topic. Here's my question: Do you see much difference using self-powered, digital monitors as opposed to the "old" style analog monitors with a separate amplifier? If I wanted to add a new style monitor from Alesis, Mackie, M-Audio, etc., what would be the most logical way to set it up so I could switch between monitoring systems? At present, I am sending a signal from my analog mixer to the amplifier, which drives some Tannoy 6.5's. Thanks, James |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: drbam
Date:4/12/2003 1:44:40 PM
If your mixer has only one monitor output, then you'll need a splitter of some sort. (Sorry I can't recommend any specific models). My console has 2 separate monitor outs (control room and studio) which I use for 2 different sets of monitors. Even the smallest mixers from Mackie and Behringer have this ability (the headphone out can also serve as a control room out). drbam |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: coolout
Date:4/12/2003 1:46:31 PM
you can also pick up a little speaker selector box at any radio shack. |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: Spy
Date:4/12/2003 1:47:26 PM
Greetings James, What desk do you have? I have a small analogue desk myself, Alesis Studio 24, and it has 'monitor out' balanced TRS jack sockets. If you're desk has something like that then connect the speakers there. I don't mean to be rude, but have you checked the manual for the mixer? It should say where to connect what in there. HTH One Love, Spy! |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: buffalosnout
Date:4/12/2003 4:37:54 PM
I have the Alesis Studio 32, so it probably hooks up similarly to yours. I'm a little confused about the analog / digital differences. Coming from the "old school," the concept of digital speakers isn't getting through to me. 1. Normally, then, you drive the "digital," self-powered speakers with an analog feed from the hardware mixer? 2. In your experience, is there any great difference between monitoring with the new digital speakers, as opposed to say, the analog Tannoy 6.5's? Thanks, James Thanks, James |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: coolout
Date:4/13/2003 6:54:10 AM
didn't that "digital is better" hype die out in the 80's? i shopped for months for monitors before i decided on the passive tannoy reveals. at the time they offered the best bang for the buck. i remember checking out the roland digital monitors. pure marketing hype. just an active speaker with a digital input. if you use them with a roland recorder you can set it where it changes the frequency response of the speaker to simulate different playback systems, but if you just going in through the normal analog way you're not really using ANY of the digital features. on top of that they didn't sound that great. the tannoys 6.5 are the proto-j ones, if i'm correct. you should already have a good reference amp which will make upgrading your speakers a bit cheaper. you'll get more speaker for your money if you don't switch to active ones. see if you can demo the event 20/20 and passive reveals, or on the active side the behringer truths and the mackie HR824 if you really have deep pockets . |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: drbam
Date:4/13/2003 9:06:48 AM
<<see if you can demo the event 20/20 and passive reveals, or on the active side the behringer truths and the mackie HR824 if you really have deep pockets . >> The Truths are available for about $400 pair compared to best price of approx $1150 for the 824s. But these monitors should not be compared as they are not even in the same league. They only look similar. Most reports I've read state that the Truths are extremely fatiguing and not very accurate. I upgraded from a pair of Event 20/20 bas (which I used for about 2 years) to the 824s and my whole world changed for the better! I always had to fight to get the low end right with the Events (which is a common complaint for these speakers). I also had to take regular breaks as my ears would easily tire and just fry out (I monitor at very modest levels). I thought that this was because my ears were too worn out (I'm in my 50s and have been doing this since '62!). After getting the 824s, I've discovered that this is not the case. I can listen to 824s all day without the excessive fatigue I experienced with the Events. . .AND. . . my mixes are MUCH more accurate in every way. I can tell what's happening throughout the spectrum. The 824s have their share of critics, but obviously they work well for me. drbam |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: Spy
Date:4/14/2003 7:01:18 AM
Greetings James, "1. Normally, then, you drive the "digital," self-powered speakers with an analog feed from the hardware mixer?" First of all, not all 'self-powered' speakers are digital. Active (to use the most common term) speakers are simply speakers that have an amplifier (or two) built in to the speaker cabinet(s). Active speakers, therefore do not require a separate power amplifier and can be fed directly from a pre-amplifier, in this case the Monitor Outs from your mixer. 'Digital' speakers are usually designed with digital audio in mind and will probably have S/PDIF (or similar) connectors for connecting directly to a digital output. For this reason, most (if not all) digital speakers are active speakers. "2. In your experience, is there any great difference between monitoring with the new digital speakers, as opposed to say, the analog Tannoy 6.5's?" Unfortunately, I haven't actually monitored through digital speakers, so I can't give you a direct comparison. However, when you consider that the majority of music played in homes, shops, venues, etc. is heard via analogue set ups (even if the original source material is digital, e.g. a CD), I don't think it will be an omission on your part to stick with an analogue monitoring system. HTH One Love, Spy! |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: buffalosnout
Date:4/14/2003 10:09:03 AM
Many thanks to drbam, Spy, and coolout for sharing their perspectives on monitor speakers. I will certainly incorporate your ideas into my decision-making process. From what I've been reading lately, room accoustics may be even more important than the speakers when listening to playback. Is there any way to determine the suitability of home studio room accoustics? Or, if you are within several feet of your monitors, will the sound reach your ears relatively uncolored by the room? Thanks, James |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: SPP
Date:4/14/2003 12:22:20 PM
I believe that is one of the purposes of near field monitors. Rooms will certainly color sound to a certain extent however. I have a pair of Event PS6 powered near field monitors. I wouldn't buy them again though. They have a hard time reproducing the bass frequencies accurately. The mix will sound great on them, but when burned to a CD and played on any other system...BOOM BOOM BOOM...overwhelming bass. It's a pain in the butt, so shop carefully. I'm stuck for now and have to work arround them. Steve |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: drbam
Date:4/14/2003 12:43:02 PM
<<Is there any way to determine the suitability of home studio room accoustics? Or, if you are within several feet of your monitors, will the sound reach your ears relatively uncolored by the room?>> There are several sites that offer suggestions for tuning your room (do a search and also look through other forums) The Auralex site has a nice little tutorial called "Acoustics 101" (or something similar). Unless you have a *perfectly* tuned room (impossible unless you have a pro design and build it from scratch), what you hear will definitely be "colored" by the room's characteristics. Controlling the low end is by far the most challenging part. Do some research and start experimenting. Remember to continuously listen to a variety of your favorite CDs to give yourself a "reference." drbam |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: buffalosnout
Date:4/15/2003 6:10:52 PM
I'm learning that newer doesn't always mean better. The monitors I have been using for the past 8 years are Tannoy PBM 6.5 II (now discontinued). I thought I was probably well behind the curve using such old equipment, so I picked up a pair of Event 20/20's from Guitar Center, having heard good things about them. I'm lucky Guitar Center has such a flexible return policy. After doing A/B comparisons for an hour, I decided to just stay with the Tannoys, for now. I was expecting a much bigger bass from the 8" woofers on the 20/20's, but it just wasn't there. The 6.5" on the Tannoys did a better job on the low end. I did like the clarity of the high end on the 20/20's, but the low end deficiency will cause me to look elsewhere. Last year, I did a session in which Genelecs were used--maybe with an 8" woofer. They were spectacular, but probably very expensive. James |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: coolout
Date:4/15/2003 11:39:48 PM
the low end performance is usually the catch with most mid-priced monitor speakers. there's really only a few choices: a) spend 1000+ bucks on really good monitors like the mackies. b) get a subwoofer and carefully tune it to your room and old monitors. c) get accustomed to not hearing much low end in your monitors and mix accordingly i tried c) but i got tired of the guesswork and went with b). it works for me. |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:4/16/2003 9:47:24 AM
What sub Cabinet did you get? And what are you nearfields? |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: coolout
Date:4/16/2003 10:10:57 AM
i'm using passive tannoy reveals (the red ones) for near-fields, an alesis reference amp, and a yamaha SW305 subwoofer. part of me kind of wishes i would have bought the tannoy sub because the built-in crossover would have made tuning it a lot easier, but it was 150 bucks more and way too powerful for my neighbors. i keep the sub volume under +4. i went with the yamaha sw305 sub because the specs were better than the other subs in that price range, it had good reviews, and some stores are bundling the 305s with the speakers that replaced the ns10s (the most popular near-field monitors ever). the addition of the subwoofer has made my mixes much, much better. |
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Subject:RE: Monitor Speakers
Reply by: ramallo
Date:4/18/2003 10:14:57 AM
Hello The best are a pair of good sounding monitors. The auto-amplified monitors usually have a very low quality amplifiers inside, and if have a digital in, I put my hand on fire that have a very bad DAC inside (Cheap components). I have a pair of Genelec 1030 and have a very poor amp inside (But sounds ok). I tried with Dynaudio BM15 with and without amps inside (Passive and active models), and sounds better the passive model with a good amp. Are more expensive a passive speaker and a good amp than de active units. |