Rendering-what hardware does all the work?

mikecazz wrote on 4/9/2003, 2:42 AM
Newbie:
I was talking to a professional video guy. He tried to explain a better capture card was important because it helps with the rendering.
I understand what he was saying - but honestly - once captured wouldn't most cards take a back seat to the rendering program, hard drive, processor and ram?

Does for example an ADVC 1394 card help render AT ALL?
Does our onboard ATI type 3d card do anything?
Is it all processor?

Where does the quality come from in a project?
Where does the speed come from?
What ONE component is most important aside from the highest quality video and audio (one can afford) to start with?

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 4/9/2003, 6:48 AM
It depends on the software you're using. Since you're asking this in the SonicFoundry Vegas forum, i'll assume you're referring to using Vegas. In Vegas there is no rendering acceleration from capture/video hardware at all. The rendering process is done entirely by the CPU. The nice thing about this is that Vegas will run on any PC without needing expensive additional hardware. So, for faster rendering, a faster CPU will be the biggest help.

There are other video editing software packages that do make use of hardware accelerators. In fact, most software before Vegas does. This may be what your video guy is talking about.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 4/9/2003, 7:28 AM
I use a Matrox RT2500 at work, and when I render to mpeg-2, if it crashes it SAYS the Flex3d chip (the matrox real time chip) had an error, but I see no speed difference between using the Matrox and not in rendering speeds. It was a waste of money IMHO.
swattum wrote on 4/9/2003, 7:43 AM
From what I've seen, unless it's a really high end card, the card is unlikely to be faster at rendering than most of todays processors.

I originally purchased a Matrox RT2500 w/Adobe Premier - big mistake. It took many, many hours of effort to get the system stable enough to use; the hardware/software still doesn't function correctly for rendering a final project unless I move my source files to a slow disk drive (I basically just use the card to capture analog video now). And the dang thing only renders at about 8-11fps - which is incredibly slow (especially when compared to Vegas); the slowness is due to the fact that the card is doing all of the work with my fast processor basically sitting idle.

The card does assist in doing real-time previews, but you have to be very, very careful to have all of your source material in a specific format that the card knows about, otherwise it needs to render the entire project to give you a real-time preview (waiting 12 hours for a real-time preview on a 60 minute project is something I really enjoy doing).

IMO, the single most important component in a project is software that works and gets the job done. Matrox/Premier simply didn't work for me.
emmo2002 wrote on 4/9/2003, 8:54 AM
So is there a way to speed up rendering times either through better hardware or by manipulating Vegas?

I have done a number of longer pieces and waiting so long to have a project render before sending it back to tape drives me crazy.

Any Ideas?
emmo2002
rebel44 wrote on 4/9/2003, 8:59 AM
Rendering is done by CPU and RAM.Since the writting to HD take a small time-speed of HD does not matter.I am using ATI all in 8 with 32M and I am happy with.
Adding RAM will help to speed up rendering.
Jsnkc wrote on 4/9/2003, 10:15 AM
I agree. boostin up your ram will help a lot, I have pretty much identical systems at home and work, the only diffrence is that I have 3 times as much ram in my computer at home and I notice a big diffrence in rendering times between the 2
wcoxe1 wrote on 4/9/2003, 10:38 AM
If you are in the market for a new computer, there will be significant changes coming in the next 6 months or less.

Faster CPUs mean faster Vegas rendering. The Intel 3.2GHz is just around the corner. But wait, until they get it on the new mother boards.

Faster Front-Side Busses on new mother-in-law boards, in the order of 800MHz will reduce LOTS of bottle necks. Just around the corner, waiting for the new Intel chip.

Faster RAM, to take advantage of the new chip and mother boards. Tons of RAM on a slow machine may help in minor ways, but Vegas doesn't really use tons of RAM. However, if you to digital editing of large photographs, the extra RAM is very nice.

The rest is waiting for time as you capture and write to tape. Not much you can do there at reasonable price.

Just be glad Vegas is tops and doesn't cost a ton. All that extra money can be put in to the CPU.

Here is an interesting story, if you are interested:


News Hardware

Intel sets stage for desktop overhaul

By Michael Kanellos
CNET News.com
April 2, 2003, 4:47 AM PT



Intel came out with two new Celeron processors for desktops this week, a
prelude to a slew of desktop technology coming in the next few months.

The two new Celeron chips for bargain desktops run at 2.4GHz and 2.3GHz and cost $127
and $117 each, respectively, in 1,000 unit quantities. Although originally geared toward the
consumer market, Celerons have gained popularity in business markets.

The major desktop overhaul for spring, however, will start later this month with the release of
Canterwood, a chipset for Pentium 4 computers, and the subsequent release of Springdale in
mid-May, according to sources close to the company. A 3.2GHz version of the Pentium 4 will
also come out in the same time frame, according to the sources, a release expected to
prompt a wave of price cuts.

If microprocessors are the
CEOs inside PCs, chipsets
are the chief operating
officers, managing
input-output functions,
ensuring memory works with
processors and creating
paths for data to circulate
from one component to
another.

Springdale and Canterwood
will come with an 800MHz
system bus, the data conduit
between the processor and
memory, faster than the
533MHz and 400MHz bus
that now comes with Pentium
4 computers. The chipsets
also feature Serial ATA, a faster and relatively new way to connect the hard drive to the rest of
the computer, and a faster bus, called AGP 8X, for connecting the graphics chip to the
processor. AGP 8X now only comes with workstations.

Additionally, the two forthcoming chipsets will feature two channels, rather than one channel, of
memory. This increases the amount of data funneling toward the processor at any single
moment.

Many companies will use Springdale as a launch pad to tout Intel's hyperthreading
technology for the business market, a feature in Pentium 4s running at 3GHz and faster that
allows a single chip to handle more functions at one time.

Although hyperthreading came out last November, most manufacturers only turn it on for
consumer PCs. Corporate PCs and workstations with 3GHz Pentium 4s have shipped with the
function turned off. In late January, representatives at IBM and Dell Computer said that they
would begin to ship their business PCs with the hyperthreading function turned on when the
new chipsets arrived.

Corporate customers want to digest all the changes at once, according to Howard Locker,
chief architect of the PC division at IBM.

While some manufacturers will come out with Canterwood-based PCs, most are planning to
sell larger volumes of Springdale models, according to sources.

Additionally, Springdale and Canterwood PCs will feature 400MHz double data rate (DDR)
DRAM, a faster version of the 266MHz DDR DRAM that comes in today's PCs.

Springdale and Canterwood, from a manufacturing perspective, are the same. Canterwood
chipsets, however, will exhibit faster internal speed paths, a difference called Performance
Acceleration Technology (PAT), Intel executives have said.

Whether or not a chipset exhibits these faster speed paths, which will improve performance, is
determined in the testing phase of manufacturing, according to Intel executives. Making chips
is often like baking cookies. The recipe for a given batch might be identical, but all the
cookies will be slightly different.

Not to be outdone, AMD will boost the bus speed on its Athlon processor to 400MHz in the
next few months, sources say.
mikecazz wrote on 4/10/2003, 3:49 AM
Thanks for the tips - I stay about 1/2 way or more behind the fastest chips to save money. For example if I did a major upgrade today I would go about 2.0 2.4 AMD somewhere in there...whereever the price break was (like the 1.8's recently)

I was planning on dropping in some more ram so that good - cant hurt.

Well - I hope I still made the right choice by buying a capture card by Canopus (ADVC1394) rather than ATI (normal video card). I hope since Canopus is geared towards this business it turned out better.

Still have a lot of videotapes to save - and so far very happy with the Hi8 capture I did...with Vegas and Canopus.
bowman01 wrote on 4/10/2003, 7:54 PM
when the 3GHz intel pentium 4 chip comes down in price go for that! hyperthreading!

wcoxe1 wrote on 4/10/2003, 8:03 PM
It is MORE than HyperThreading, with the new chip sets coming out for the next Pentium 3.2. There will be a special type of RAM that can feed two streams of data to the CPU at a time. That is supposed to speed up things even MORE. Especially with the higher speed busses involved.
PBE wrote on 4/11/2003, 2:40 PM
Is there any way to format VV4 so it will take advantage of a higher end capture cards processing power? Like maybe split the work load up between the CPU and the cards chip?