Need some 5.1 encoding/decoding help PLEASE -ACID Product Family

Subject:Need some 5.1 encoding/decoding help PLEASE Posted by: tmasten Date:3/26/2003 2:18:29 AM First off my specs: Athelon XP 2200+ M-Audio Delta TDIF SB Audigy 1 GeForce Ti4600 128mb 1gb RAM Win XP Pro etc... Here's what I am trying to do: I am writing songs in Reason and Acid for a project. I need to supply music mixes in stereo, in 6 mono 5.1 streams, and as ac-3 encoded files. It's a ton of work, but fun stuff. Heres the problem: The stereo mixes are coming out great. I have been writing using the delta tdif connected to my mixer and monitors. I split up the Reason tunes by instrument and import all the files into Acid. I setup the 5.1 master bus and assign all of my tracks in the surround field. I am listening back using the Creative Asio driver and my 5.1 speakers connected to my PC. The mixes sound great. Then I encode them and they sound like crap. I lose about 75% of the volume, no matter what I seem to do. I am playing the ac3 files through Creative's PlayCenter. WHY are the encoded files so low in volume compared to the stereo or 6 mono stream files? I've tried everything. Is there something I am missing? When you assign a track of stereo drums to the surround bus, why is it always -6Db right off the bat? Basically I need the encoded files to sound just like they do in Acid, but they do not. Please if anyone has some advice I would greatly appreciate it. I have tried using the ac3 encoder in Acid, and also SoftEncode, same problem with both programs. I apologize if this is a dumb question. Maybe someone can point me to a site where I can get some solid info on mixing and encoding in 5.1. Thanks for any help.
Subject:RE: Need some 5.1 encoding/decoding help PLEASE Reply by: SonicJG Date:3/27/2003 2:17:11 PM I just passed this along to the AC-3 file I/O folks, and here are some suggestions: I've noticed this as well, at times. It has everything to do with the Dolby settings used. Most likely, it's a combination of dynamic compression, surround mixing, and/or dialog normalization settings. There're a number of documents straight from Dolby (http://www.dolby.com/pro/) that should help. I hope this helps, Joel
Subject:RE: Need some 5.1 encoding/decoding help PLEASE Reply by: SonyTSW Date:3/27/2003 2:26:39 PM You may need to make some adjustments to the settings used for AC-3 encoding, the defaults may not be appropriate for the type of audio you are producing. Use the Custom button in the render dialog to change the settings and create new templates. The Dolby web site has information here that may help. For starters, you may want to look at the document titled "All About Audio Metadata". http://www.dolby.com/pro/
Subject:RE: Need some 5.1 encoding/decoding help PLEASE Reply by: tmasten Date:3/28/2003 1:22:35 PM Thanks to both of you for responding! It is nice to see a product that actually has useful support in the forums. I was able to jack up the volume a little by customizing the settings but it is still not nearly as loud as the 6 mono streams. Maybe you know if this could be an issue: I am decoding using a SB Audigy card to a set of 4.1 speakers (they are not 5.1) would that make ANY difference in the volume? I just ordered the logitech z-680 digital 5.1 speaker system so I can monitor in true surround. That is the only thing I can think of that can be causing me this grief. I spent hours messing with the settings and found that dialog norm at -31db with the setting of Music Light, makes the loudest recording.

Subject:Need some 5.1 encoding/decoding help PLEASE

Posted by: tmasten

Date:3/26/2003 2:18:29 AM

First off my specs:
Athelon XP 2200+
M-Audio Delta TDIF
SB Audigy 1
GeForce Ti4600 128mb
1gb RAM
Win XP Pro
etc...

Here's what I am trying to do:
I am writing songs in Reason and Acid for a project. I need to supply music mixes in stereo, in 6 mono 5.1 streams, and as ac-3 encoded files. It's a ton of work, but fun stuff.

Heres the problem:
The stereo mixes are coming out great. I have been writing using the delta tdif connected to my mixer and monitors. I split up the Reason tunes by instrument and import all the files into Acid. I setup the 5.1 master bus and assign all of my tracks in the surround field. I am listening back using the Creative Asio driver and my 5.1 speakers connected to my PC. The mixes sound great. Then I encode them and they sound like crap. I lose about 75% of the volume, no matter what I seem to do. I am playing the ac3 files through Creative's PlayCenter. WHY are the encoded files so low in volume compared to the stereo or 6 mono stream files? I've tried everything. Is there something I am missing? When you assign a track of stereo drums to the surround bus, why is it always -6Db right off the bat? Basically I need the encoded files to sound just like they do in Acid, but they do not. Please if anyone has some advice I would greatly appreciate it. I have tried using the ac3 encoder in Acid, and also SoftEncode, same problem with both programs. I apologize if this is a dumb question. Maybe someone can point me to a site where I can get some solid info on mixing and encoding in 5.1. Thanks for any help.

Subject:RE: Need some 5.1 encoding/decoding help PLEASE

Reply by: SonicJG

Date:3/27/2003 2:17:11 PM

I just passed this along to the AC-3 file I/O folks, and here are some suggestions:

I've noticed this as well, at times. It has everything to do with the Dolby settings used. Most likely, it's a combination of dynamic compression, surround mixing, and/or dialog normalization settings. There're a number of documents straight from Dolby (http://www.dolby.com/pro/) that should help.

I hope this helps,
Joel

Subject:RE: Need some 5.1 encoding/decoding help PLEASE

Reply by: SonyTSW

Date:3/27/2003 2:26:39 PM

You may need to make some adjustments to the settings used for AC-3 encoding, the defaults may not be appropriate for the type of audio you are producing. Use the Custom button in the render dialog to change the settings and create new templates.

The Dolby web site has information here that may help. For starters, you may want to look at the document titled "All About Audio Metadata".

http://www.dolby.com/pro/

Subject:RE: Need some 5.1 encoding/decoding help PLEASE

Reply by: tmasten

Date:3/28/2003 1:22:35 PM

Thanks to both of you for responding! It is nice to see a product that actually has useful support in the forums. I was able to jack up the volume a little by customizing the settings but it is still not nearly as loud as the 6 mono streams. Maybe you know if this could be an issue: I am decoding using a SB Audigy card to a set of 4.1 speakers (they are not 5.1) would that make ANY difference in the volume? I just ordered the logitech z-680 digital 5.1 speaker system so I can monitor in true surround. That is the only thing I can think of that can be causing me this grief. I spent hours messing with the settings and found that dialog norm at -31db with the setting of Music Light, makes the loudest recording.