Why are the stills vibrating?

IndieBoy wrote on 3/27/2003, 2:06 PM
I have burned 2 slideshows to DVD now, and both have what I would have to describe as "vibration". Certain portions of the picture seem to be moving. I have tested the DVD on two different DVD players with 2 different TV's, so I concluded it must be in my encoding. I used Vegas Video 4 to make the shows, then burned with Vegas DVD Architect.

Settings for 1st DVD:
NTSC widescreen
720x480
Progressive mode
Mpeg-2. MainConcept encoder

Settings for 2nd DVD:
NTSC widescreen
655x480
Progressive mode
Mpeg-2 MainConcept encoder


I have never had a problem like this with any of the videos I have made. Is there something I should know about still images when encoding and burning? Should it be interlaced? I don't want to waste too many more DVD's burning unacceptable slideshows.

Thank you for any help.

Comments

DGates wrote on 3/27/2003, 2:14 PM
When you first make your photo montage, you might try "reduce interlace flicker" and also "resample". That helps smooth them out.
riredale wrote on 3/27/2003, 2:24 PM
As DGates said, you problem might be that your still images are too sharp. Horizontal edges or lines in such images will buzz or flicker at a 30Hz rate, since any one line on a TV set is refreshed 30 times a second.

To eliminate the effect, you need to soften your images, so edges sort of "smear" over another adjacent line. The resulting images won't be quite as sharp, but they won't flicker.
Aje wrote on 3/27/2003, 3:47 PM
In addition to this matter but for video.
Why can´t I choose "no motion blur type" in VV4 as I could in VV3.
I don´t even know what it means but I want as clean picture as I can get.
Which blure type in VV4 (as I must choose) is "cleanest".
Or does it matter at all as long as you don´t intend to use blure issues.
Or is it important to use this feature for any reason?
Anybody?
Aje
IndieBoy wrote on 3/27/2003, 7:29 PM
I tried all of your suggestions and my DVD is still ending up with vibration. The main vibration occurs at the top edge of the pictures. Just for the heck of it I made the same slide show with Sonic MyDVD and there was zero vibration. The pictures even looked better, but MyDVD is extremely limited. No widescreen, only one transition, etc. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
BriceWilliams wrote on 3/27/2003, 7:50 PM
I had a simular problem with stills when I would pan or zoom. When I rendered Mpeg 2 Dvd NTSC format. Then opened Custom, Advanced Video, and checked "Allow Field to Motion Compensation" the "jitter" or movment on diagonal lines etc was gone. Hope this is the same for you
SonyDennis wrote on 3/27/2003, 9:16 PM
In addition to the fine tips here, I will add that when using high resolution stills, always use "Best" rendering quality and not "Good". If you used Good, that could explain some artifacts on hard edges.
///d@
SonyDennis wrote on 3/27/2003, 9:18 PM
In Vegas 3, there was a "None" motion blur option to turn motion blur off. In Vegas 4, motion blur is OFF until you add a Motion Blur or Supersampling envelope to the Video Bus Track.
///d@
MCTech wrote on 3/28/2003, 1:37 AM
What format are the still images? If they are JPEG, that could explain the problem somewhat. JPEG is a VERY compressed format that doesn't lend itself well to being recompressed with other very compressed formats such as MPEG. Whenever I do a slideshow video I always use BMPs or some other uncompressed format.

Mark
Jimco wrote on 3/28/2003, 9:43 AM
After reading this thread, thought I'd chime in to say that I see the same thing in my images burned to DVD. I didn't notice it nearly as bad when I was burning VCD and SVCD. Now that I am burning DVDs, it's obvious. There's no doubt in my mind that it is caused by sharp edges on a 30Hz device.

Jim
IndieBoy wrote on 3/28/2003, 10:00 AM
They are jpegs. I will try converting from my original tiffs to bmp and see if that helps. Thanks for all the suggestions. I will definetely post again once I get this figured out.
williamconifer wrote on 3/28/2003, 4:52 PM
I do photo montages on DVD and I have found that if I use VBR endcoding that I get a "pulsing" in certain parts of the photos. I now use CBR and I don't get that pulsing anymore. BTW this also occured in VV3.

jack
williamconifer wrote on 3/28/2003, 4:56 PM
Dennis,

Does using "best" rendering quality increase the encoding time? In doing montages I am trying to find the best balance between speed and quality. What MPG2 encoder settings impact render speed that most? Assume I want a faster render time. *chuckles*

thanks
jack
Jimco wrote on 3/28/2003, 5:51 PM
Hmmm... do you render at a bitrate of 8,000,000bps or 6,000,000?

Jim
IndieBoy wrote on 3/29/2003, 12:23 AM
Well, I redid my entire slideshow using .psd instead of .jpeg. The quality was much better, but some parts of the screen still pulse. I will try to use CBR and see if that works.
Jimco wrote on 3/29/2003, 12:51 PM
I burned a DVD at CBR 8,000Kbps this morning and still have some shimmer on some pictures. Honestly, I don't think there is a way to remove all of it.

Jim
IndieBoy wrote on 3/29/2003, 10:37 PM
Well I enocoded my still images using CBR, bit rate of 9,800,000. The pictures look exactly the same as using VBR. I have come to the conclusion that I have to put all of my stills through photoshop, and blur all of them to eliminate the pulsing. Also, I noticed even the menu I created with DVD Architect pulses around the thumbnails. Is there anything I should do with the menu to make it look clean and non-pulsing?
Randy Brown wrote on 3/30/2003, 9:09 AM
>>>Also, I noticed even the menu I created with DVD Architect pulses around the thumbnails.<<<
I get that too, but thought it had something to do with my TV.
Randy
SonyDennis wrote on 3/31/2003, 4:10 PM
You asked: Does using "best" rendering quality increase the encoding time?

Well, yes, of course, otherwise we'd have hardwired it and not given you the choice! Mostly it's going to run slower if you have scaling (up or down), but the scaling down is going to look better. You can also enable "Reduce interlace flicker" on all your events if you want further vertical filtering.

However, playback on an interlaced TV is always going to have flicker, it's inherent in the format, you can see it on broadcast TV as well.

///d@
Laurence wrote on 3/31/2003, 6:58 PM
I did a documentary for a museum a few months ago and ran into this problem a lot. I tried various types of blur and rendering options, but wasn't satisfied. Here's what worked the best for me:

I looked at the portions of the photos that were affected by interlace flicker, loaded the original jpeg files into Photoshop, made masks of the offending portions of the photos, then blurred just those parts of the photographs. A tiny bit of vertical blur is all it usually needs. Sometimes I would have a photo of a sculpture with leaves of trees in the background that would flicker like crazy on an interlaced monitor. I made a mask of the subject foreground and blurred the background. The results of these Photoshop edits were very pleasing visually and much better than any of the video blur or rendering options I tried.

Laurence Kingston
IndieBoy wrote on 4/2/2003, 4:52 PM
Well, I softened up the offending pictures, and that seemed to work for the most part. I still get a lot of pulsing on the menu that I made in DVD architect. I encoded this project using the progressive scan mode because my dvd player and tv both support 480p. Is this the right way to go about encoding? Should I just encode it interlaced and let my dvd player do the work?
Laurence wrote on 4/2/2003, 11:04 PM
I'd encode it interlaced. Progressive scan playback of interlaced video looks a whole lot better than interlaced playback of progressive scan video. Since most TVs are still interlaced, I'd render for them.

Laurence Kingston