Subject:Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Posted by: buckaroo

Date:3/18/2003 1:22:05 PM

Hey Guys,

Does anybody know when Acid 5 will be released? (Sonic Foundry??)

Its obvious from all these posts that Acid 4.0 is about as useful as as ashtray on a motorbike.. Acid 5.0 should have better MIDI etc - I think thats what most of us want - more MIDI sequencing based stuff - although i have been told that the MIDI engineers at SF are very limited? Does this mean that if there is a V.5 it will go less MIDI and more surround sound rubbish?

Come on SF, if this was made more into a sequencer, and more STABLE for external MIDI and Plug-ins / VSTis, then i think this forum would go down by half...

Ive been using Acid 2.0 for ages, but wont upgrade because not only this forum, but all the producers i know, say its useless - I feel sorry for the people who forked out for it.. - Is Acid 4.0b much different? or is it case of Sonar "here we come"? (although im not very keen on that interface)

Sorry for the moan - but what ive said above just seems more & more obvious the amount of fed-up users who post on this forum :-(

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:3/18/2003 2:41:38 PM

Don't mean to be anal and all, but I'm just the reverse when it comes to MIDI. Don't get me wrong. MIDI does have its uses. (Sync, program and CC changes among them.) It's just not the be all, end all to me. (I'm a musician who records digital audio.)

Please don't make the assumption that just because ACID doesn't work like a traditional MIDI sequencer that it actually should. Users can (and do) miss ACID's paradigm altogether because of this. (Loop-based music tool.) It is an aid, part of a bigger musical picture. A tool in one's arsenal. Many users use both SONAR and ACID together, for example. To augment those two apps, many users also have Sound Forge or WaveLab on hand for digital audio editing chores.

Being able to actually playback MIDI is something fairly new to ACID; MIDI was just confined to sync capability pre-ACID Pro 3.0. (If you're using ACID Pro 2.0, you probably know this.) Therefore, MIDI playback/recording has to fit into ACID's paradigm, not the other way around. If it was done any other way, ACID wouldn't be ACID anymore.

For those producers who say ACID is "useless": Isn't that a little insulting? What's the reasoning behind this thinking? To me, that's rather close minded.

Users who haven't upgraded are pretty much missing out on what's probably the most important reason to upgrade (at least for me)—the audio quality. ACID 3.0 sounded better than 2.0, and ACID 4.0 sounds better than ACID 3.0.

Bugs? Doesn't every app have them (and its share of disgruntled users)? I haven't really come across anything life-stopping, even since the initial release. (There was the M-Audio ASIO bug, but that was M-Audio's fault, not SoFo's.) Then again, I don't use VSTi's or MIDI that much. *shrug*

Iacobus

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: analoguekid

Date:3/18/2003 7:30:16 PM

I think the more realistic next release would be 4.0c. 5 is most likely due in the fall (as is the release schedule of most SoFo products) As far as an app being "useless," all tools have strengths and weaknesses...It really depends on you the user (and if you rely on opinions of others, then you should also try the demo to see if their opinions are also yours...) and what your workflow, writing style, needs, and goals are within creating music. If you think that this forum is full of people moaning, you should visit cubase.net or the emagic site sometime. You could take any ranting post and insert the name Acid, Cubase, Reason, Fruity, Logic, traktion, whatever...Forums attract people that are having problems, or that just want to bitch. You will find more negative or problematic posts than you will find someone gushing about how Acid 4.0b changed my life!!! usefulness depends on you and what you can make happen. Acid is one means to an end, and there is no single correct way to create anything artistic...

steps down off soapbox...

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: oofunk

Date:3/19/2003 11:09:26 AM

I agree with all these opinions.. But my side of it is why bother inserting any form of midi capabilities if its going to be as rubbish as in Acid 4. Dont get me wrong i really do like acid and have used it for many years but since discovering the joys of using Reason it hasnt been run anywhere near as much as before. If what you say is true which i agree it is and people use multiple apps.. why have SOFO even bothered at all with midi??

The simple fact for me is that Acid doesnt fit into how i now go about writing music. Its great for some things (time strecthing is my major) but rubbish at others. I recommend for everyone to give reason ago if you havent already. Use acid to time strecth to your choosen tempo and then import into one of the great samplers in reason.. Then you can lay down loads of midi (without having to save midi tracks when recording!!!!) and edit it really easily afterwards..

Anyway thats just my opinion....

Funk

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: zendar

Date:3/19/2003 1:33:40 PM

message to sf

dump all the midi garbage in acid, develop chopper and beatmapper instead, steal the best aspects of ableton

dump all the video crap in vegas, give it acid import and make it kick nuendo's ass

integrate cd arch, vst and asio in soundforge and beat everything wavelab has to offer

sort it out and you may survive, though you seem hellbent on flushing yourselves down the pan

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:3/19/2003 2:39:27 PM

I really don't see the point in integrating VST and ASIO in Sound Forge. Most effects plug-ins are in both VST and DirectX formats. Sound Forge doesn't record MIDI, so what good would ASIO be? Sharing hardware via ASIO between apps is also a gamble right now. CD Architect would be a plus, but I would guess that's a price vs. value issue.

"Dump all the video crap in Vegas" is a rather weak statement. Many users of Vegas use it specifically for the purpose of video editing. If you don't want to deal with video tracks, then you don't have to. Please don't infringe on what's an essential feature for other users.

What do you mean by "give it ACID import"? You mean the ability to use Loops, just like in ACID? That would defeat ACID's purpose in the whole combine. That would be like giving ACID true multitracking that Vegas does already.

Why end what amounts to a pretty good feature? (MIDI in ACID.) Hey, it's not perfect, but it's a start. (In retrospect, MIDI itself is not, IMO, perfect, but that's another story...) Being able to actually use a VSTi was a huge leap.

How would you improve upon the Chopper and the Beatmapper? Be constructive here. Just telling SoFo to "develop" it further is not going to help them. I can think of maybe some things for the Beatmapper, but not much else for the Chopper. (I'm thinking maybe a changing tempo/time signature map over a Beatmapped track, but that would probably also mean the entire project would have to also change tempo/time signature as well.)

Iacobus

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: ATP

Date:3/19/2003 3:01:59 PM

i use MIDI all the time in my music, and i have to say ACID is not intuitive at all when it comes to editing MIDI. i think the implementation is inherently flawed. personally, i'm having a hard time grasping the logic and structure of MIDI usage in ACID. it seems inefficient and impractical to me. for instance, if you want to use a VSTi in ACID you have to change at least 3 settings in order to simply hear the sound on your speakers.
recording is a pain because there is not a punch-in option or something i'm aware of.
then, editing the files after recording. is there any way to keep the MIDI properties window (the piano roll editor) open and usable while playing your entire track, including all other channels? if i press play when i have the piano roll open i only hear what's in the piano roll. if i select the main work area and press play i will hear every sound, but the selector in the piano roll editor doesn't follow the song.
and to conclude, the actual midi data isn't even stored in the project file. no, you have to manage your external midi files as well. in order to do that you should name all your midi tracks accordingly before recording, even if you don't know you'll use the data. just more useless steps to add to the list.

no, ACID is indeed great for loops and waves, but the MIDI implementation is severely lacking, especially when you compare it to sequencers like Cubase or Logic. i fear that for ACID to be able to use MIDI efficiently however, the entire structure of MIDI usage needs an overhaul. i don't see SoFo doing that.

oh well, personally as long as they figure out a way to make ACID syncable with other sequencers i really don't care what they do with the internal MIDI functions, as i will be using other apps for that. nevertheless ACID is a great tool which should not be underestimated! MIDI aside, the userfriendlyness and intuitiveness of ACID is second to none.

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:3/19/2003 4:56:50 PM

---as long as they figure out a way to make ACID syncable with other sequencers i really don't care---ala rewire.

Ed.

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: ozzborn

Date:3/19/2003 6:50:05 PM

give us rewire and sync acid to reason and thats all that well need

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: oofunk

Date:3/21/2003 10:37:05 AM

Thats very true... That would fit to what i do lovely! ie use acid to time strecth loops to then bring into reason.. i have sync them before but thats was before i had my dmx 6fire that wont allow 2 asio channels!!

Anyway.. things are better then they were 2-3 years ago so that is all that matters, give it a couple more years and think what it will be like then!

Funk

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: RasKeita

Date:3/21/2003 11:27:26 AM

I for one forked out for 4.0 and have uninstalled it, strictly use 3.0. Before I invest in any 5.0 I wanna see a decent 4.0. I've had Sonar since 1.0, and I have Cubase SX. For MIDI and Multi Track recording these two reign supreme, so I think S.F. should stick with what has always been the very best Loop Tool and forget about trying to add all the features the big three have.

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:3/21/2003 4:13:47 PM

What problems have you had with 4.0b? Did you send sofo a error report/bug list?

Acid 4.0b working cool here. In dire need of new system but thats a whole other thread ;)

ED.

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: midihead

Date:3/21/2003 6:04:55 PM

I don't know that running Acid the way I do AND Cubase together with VST synths would even work on even my P4 1.9 Acid is a serious resource hog by itself. I'd use Cubase SX exclusively if it had the loop functionality of Acid...or I'd use Acid exclusively if it had a more intuitive Midi interface and could actually run the bigger VST synths with stability. Unlike some folks here, I use A LOT of soft synths. It just gets too expensive to keep buying outboard gear. I make part of my living doing remixes and music for media, and I love how fast it is to produce music in Acid. If it were solid at doing the other chores I need to do with the VSTi's and Midi (which I only use to get the timing right before I record to .wav) I'd be a happy camper. But for now, me and 4.0b continue to battle. There's not a day that goes by where I don't get the dreaded fatal exception error.

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: Jessariah

Date:3/21/2003 8:43:57 PM

I'm with those who think Acid is trying to be too much. Stick with what it was intended to do and improve on that. Add Rewire to solve the MIDI problem. As a Sonar user, I took one look at Acid's features and turned the page. I LOVE Acid, I just wish it didn't try to be all things to all people.

As for dropping the video from Vegas...that was a joke, right?

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: liquid

Date:3/22/2003 8:20:43 AM

Acid is not useless.....Everything you hear here: http://www.acidplanet.com/liquid_love
was done using only acid....and no I don't use or need to use MIDI. Midi has it's use, but let me tell you from soneone who's been there...midi is not the only tool in the musical food chain. If you havn't upgraded from 2 to 4 because of what your producer friends tell you...then all I can say is that you certainly aren't a leader now are you? If your friends tell you a movie sucks, would you run around saying the movie was useless to people who happed to watch and like that movie? Anyway....

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: stusy

Date:3/22/2003 9:08:11 AM

Whoa, whoa whoa RABBIT...!? what the duece and a half do you mean Acid 5..? no way people..! there's gotta be a C, a D, an E, and then, then, MAYBE, a 5...come on, THINK...!

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: RasKeita

Date:3/22/2003 9:51:46 AM

If the query about problems was directed towards me. The answer is I had no problems really to speak of, as far as (crashing,blue screen,errors,) albeit the normal infancy software gliches, I understand there would be bugs and such with a new product, so it's not really a problem. The thing is MIDI implementation is a bit tedious. The thing is I personally prefer working with Cubase SX, and Sonar for MIDI. Please don't misunderstand I work with Acid constantly, love the ease, user friendly interface, it's by far the ultimate Loop Creation Tool. I just beleive it should remain that and built off of that, Rewire would make it indispensable, and a very welcome addition to the Rewire tool box. I don't use a shovel to drive a screw...Level Vibes

Subject:RE: Whens Acid Pro 5.0 Due?

Reply by: Jimi

Date:3/22/2003 5:32:55 PM

I have never had any serious problems with 4.0
I do not use it for midi. I use to assemble loops faster than a speeding bullet.
Know matter what board or what product there are always complaints that the product does not work or should do more. For the price I paid $149 at MF it is great.
As for your producer friends telling you it is useless I would have to say it may be for what they do but it works really good for me and it makes me some money on projects I used to spend so much time on. I work part time in a pretty nice studio and there are more opinions than on this board.
Jimi