Dumb question #87 - Sampling types and Acid -ACID Product Family

Subject:Dumb question #87 - Sampling types and Acid Posted by: dkistner Date:3/13/2003 2:20:17 PM Okay, I've finally gotten up the nerve to ask. I've been working in Cool Edit 2000 for years and years, and for what little I do in the way of audio editing, it works for me: like a comfortable old pair of shoes. I've always accepted the default method for resampling to 32-bit float, which I think is 16.8 IEEE something. There's also a 24 IEEE something. There are other somethings as well, all for 32-bit float. BUT when I bring waves into Acid that were converted to 32-bit float in Cool Edit (at that 16.8 thing), the sound is all screwed up and completely unusable. They play fine in Cool Edit, in media players, etc. Up until now, I've just avoided working in Acid, mixing waves tediously four at a time in Cool Edit's rather limited multitrack mixer. But there's got to be a way to do this so Acid doesn't barf when it gets the files. I suspect the key to fixing the sound problem in Acid is in how I've got those 32-bit float settings configured in Cool Edit. I want to be able to mix waves (as one-shots) in Acid, because four tracks in Cool Edit isn't enough and effects cannot be applied in real time. I don't want to buy yet another sequencer that I'm not going to use just to mix waves together. I typically record individual dry waves straight out of my scoring program via Chainer/VSTis. I'd sure love to be able to mix them and such in Acid. Can anyone enlighten me? Diane P.S. Just snipped this out of Cool Edit's help. Apparently I'm using Cool Edit's internal format, type 1. Which does Acid want me to use? 32-bit int (type 1 - 32-bit) This format saves 32-bit audio as 32-bit integers. 32-bit 24.0 float (type 1 - 24-bit) Full 32-bit floats are actually saved (and in the range of +/-8 million), but the .wav BitsPerSample field is set to 24 while BlockAlign is still set to 4 bytes per channel. 32-bit 16.8 float (type 1 - 32-bit) Cool Edit 2000’s internal format (floating point values in the range of +/-32768.0 but larger and smaller values are valid and not clipped since the floating point exponent is saved as well). The .wav BitsPerSample field is set to 32 and BlockAlign to 4 bytes per channel. 32-bit 0.24 normalized float (type 3 - 32-bit) Standard floating point format for type 3 .wav files. Values are normalized to the range +/-1.0 and although values above and below this range are saved, some programs may clip when reading them back in (Cool Edit will not clip, but read the save value back if it is beyond this range). 24-bit packed int (type 1 - 24-bit) Straight 24-bit integers are saved (so any data beyond the bounds are clipped). The .wav BitsPerSample field is set to 24 and BlockAlign to 3 bytes per channel. 24-bit packed int (type 1 - 20-bit) Straight 24-bit integers are saved (so any data beyond the bounds are clipped). The .wav BitsPerSample field is set to 20 and BlockAlign to 3 bytes per channel. The extra 4 bits that are saved are actually the remaining valid bits when saving, and are used when reading (thus giving 24-bit accuracy still if those bits were actually when writing). Applications should either fill those last 4 bits with zeros, or with actual data, but generally A/D converters that generate 20 bits of valid data automatically set the remaining 4 bits to zero. Any type 1 format with BlockAlign set to 3 bytes per channel is assumed to be packed integers, and a BitsPerSample field between 17 and 24 inclusively will read in all 24 bits fine and assume the remaining bits are either accurate or set to zero.
Subject:RE: Dumb question #87 - Sampling types and Acid Reply by: Iacobus Date:3/13/2003 8:27:56 PM Try the "24-bit packed int (type 1 - 24-bit)" or the "32-bit 24.0 float (type 1 - 24-bit)" settings. I believe ACID does not support full-resolution 32-bit files...yet. (Sound Forge 6.0 does, for example. Vegas 4.0, on the other hand, does 24-bit/96 kHz max as well but can support 32-bit float as ACID Pro does. I've never had a problem with 32-bit float files anyway.) HTH, Iacobus
Subject:RE: Dumb question #87 - Sampling types and Acid Reply by: pwppch Date:3/14/2003 12:36:30 AM ACID support standard/legal Wave formats. The following are legal formats from the list you provided >32-bit int (type 1 - 32-bit) >32-bit 0.24 normalized float (type 3 - 32-bit) >24-bit packed int (type 1 - 24-bit) The follow are made up by CoolEDIT. 32-bit 24.0 float (type 1 - 24-bit) 32-bit 16.8 float (type 1 - 32-bit) 24-bit packed int (type 1 - 20-bit) Peter
Subject:RE: Dumb question #87 - Sampling types and Acid Reply by: dkistner Date:3/14/2003 6:03:31 AM Iacobus and Peter--Peter!--thank you for this VERY helpful information. I did some tests this morning with the normalized 24 bit and that worked. Unfortunately, it won't work with the files I already converted because when I resample them they still sound horrid. My pads sound like overdriven guitars! But I'm almost finished with this little project I'm working on, and I've changed the default setting now so it'll be right for future work. I'm so glad to know I'm going to be able to get back into Acid, because I really like working in Acid. My outputs from Chainer's Record at all three settings worked directly in Acid, too, if anyone's interested. That's good to know for future reference. If I hadn't had to do editing of the waveforms first, that would have been the way to go. Live and learn. Diane

Okay, I've finally gotten up the nerve to ask.

I've been working in Cool Edit 2000 for years and years, and for what little I do in the way of audio editing, it works for me: like a comfortable old pair of shoes. I've always accepted the default method for resampling to 32-bit float, which I think is 16.8 IEEE something. There's also a 24 IEEE something. There are other somethings as well, all for 32-bit float.

BUT when I bring waves into Acid that were converted to 32-bit float in Cool Edit (at that 16.8 thing), the sound is all screwed up and completely unusable. They play fine in Cool Edit, in media players, etc. Up until now, I've just avoided working in Acid, mixing waves tediously four at a time in Cool Edit's rather limited multitrack mixer. But there's got to be a way to do this so Acid doesn't barf when it gets the files.

I suspect the key to fixing the sound problem in Acid is in how I've got those 32-bit float settings configured in Cool Edit. I want to be able to mix waves (as one-shots) in Acid, because four tracks in Cool Edit isn't enough and effects cannot be applied in real time. I don't want to buy yet another sequencer that I'm not going to use just to mix waves together. I typically record individual dry waves straight out of my scoring program via Chainer/VSTis. I'd sure love to be able to mix them and such in Acid.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Diane

P.S. Just snipped this out of Cool Edit's help. Apparently I'm using Cool Edit's internal format, type 1. Which does Acid want me to use?

32-bit int (type 1 - 32-bit)

This format saves 32-bit audio as 32-bit integers.

32-bit 24.0 float (type 1 - 24-bit)

Full 32-bit floats are actually saved (and in the range of +/-8 million), but the .wav BitsPerSample field is set to 24 while BlockAlign is still set to 4 bytes per channel.

32-bit 16.8 float (type 1 - 32-bit)

Cool Edit 2000’s internal format (floating point values in the range of +/-32768.0 but larger and smaller values are valid and not clipped since the floating point exponent is saved as well). The .wav BitsPerSample field is set to 32 and BlockAlign to 4 bytes per channel.

32-bit 0.24 normalized float (type 3 - 32-bit)

Standard floating point format for type 3 .wav files. Values are normalized to the range +/-1.0 and although values above and below this range are saved, some programs may clip when reading them back in (Cool Edit will not clip, but read the save value back if it is beyond this range).

24-bit packed int (type 1 - 24-bit)

Straight 24-bit integers are saved (so any data beyond the bounds are clipped). The .wav BitsPerSample field is set to 24 and BlockAlign to 3 bytes per channel.

24-bit packed int (type 1 - 20-bit)

Straight 24-bit integers are saved (so any data beyond the bounds are clipped). The .wav BitsPerSample field is set to 20 and BlockAlign to 3 bytes per channel. The extra 4 bits that are saved are actually the remaining valid bits when saving, and are used when reading (thus giving 24-bit accuracy still if those bits were actually when writing). Applications should either fill those last 4 bits with zeros, or with actual data, but generally A/D converters that generate 20 bits of valid data automatically set the remaining 4 bits to zero. Any type 1 format with BlockAlign set to 3 bytes per channel is assumed to be packed integers, and a BitsPerSample field between 17 and 24 inclusively will read in all 24 bits fine and assume the remaining bits are either accurate or set to zero.