Subject:Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Posted by: ihisert

Date:3/11/2003 3:24:20 PM

So, I just installed Sonar 2.2 (sent directly from Cakewalk), which should have all the latest patches and updates, and also installed Acid 4.0 and the 4.0b patch. I can't use any of my traditional SoFo FX plugins in Sonar. Everything worked fine with Acid 3.0 and Cakewalk's music Creator 2002.

Shouldn't these problems be ironed out? Is there any way to get these Sonic Foundry plugins working in Sonar 2.2? Does anyone have a similar set-up that works?

Thanks!

Subject:RE: Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:3/11/2003 10:04:12 PM

Believe this was a problem caused by Cakewalk. I thought this was fixed though?

Iacobus

Subject:RE: Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Reply by: stusy

Date:3/12/2003 8:42:50 AM

Short answer would be as music apps become more developed, the higher the number the more proprietary; that seems to be more and more the case. I didn't have any probs when I still had sonar131 loaded on my computer with any of the other SOFO apps...that was then...even tho it's $69 or $79 for me to upgrade, if I wanted to dally with sonar again, it would be the 131 version...'course, you could just be a SOFO kinda guy or gal, and that's it...I just got tired of the "overlap" and "doodads", and prefer as much of "just the platform" as possible...

Subject:RE: Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Reply by: ihisert

Date:3/12/2003 12:45:55 PM

Cakewalk support is still saying it's a SoFo issue. Haven't heard a peep from SoFo support yet. Cakewalk support seems to think that SoFo is not supporting DirectX 8.1 architecture, which I guess Sonar 2.2 is specifically using.

I've been using DirectX 8.1 for months now, and had no problems using SoFo plugins in Cakewalk apps. I guess it's hard to tell where the problem really lies since I installed Sonar 2.2 just a few days after Acid Pro 4.0b.

I guess I should try uninstalling Acid Pro 4.0b, reinstalling 4.0 without the patch, and see where that gets me. If that doesn't work, perhaps reinstalling Acid Pro 3.0, and seeing if that works.

As a side note, the Express FX work fine in Sonar, it's the XFX 1-3 plugins that don't work. Would installing earlier versions of these in Acid 4.0 perhaps make a difference (is this even doable or advisable), or is there a different driver in 4.0 that could be causing the problem?

There seem to be far too many variables....

Subject:RE: Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Reply by: spectre1

Date:3/12/2003 1:03:45 PM

I've recently added Sonar 2 to my setup which includes Acid 4 and I've been having similar problems. At first none of my SoFo effects would work in Sonar and none of the cakewalk FX would work in Acid.

Due to an unrelated soundcard problem with Sonar and my Creative card I have temporarily switched to the MME drivers, and after that all my SoFo effects starting working fine in Sonar, and all of the Cakewalk effects except the automatable ones now work in Acid. I have no idea why, but it has seemed to help. Not the optimal solution I know, but it's been the only progress I've had.

Subject:RE: Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Reply by: ihisert

Date:3/12/2003 1:13:59 PM

Are you using Sonar 2.2, and have you patched Acid 4.0 at all (a or b)? I'm using the MME drivers in Sonar already...What are you using in Acid?

Thanks,
Ian

Subject:RE: Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Reply by: spectre1

Date:3/12/2003 1:52:11 PM

I'm using Acid 4.0b and Sonar 2.1. I'm still using the WDM drivers in ACID.

Subject:RE: Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Reply by: SonyJEV

Date:3/12/2003 4:56:34 PM

I highly doubt that the driver model you use has any effect on whether a plug-in will work in an app or not.

I believe the fact that Cakewalk plug-ins do not work in non-Cakewalk apps is by design on their part.

The primary difference between the plug-ins that shipped with ACID 4.0 and ACID 4.0b is that we have switched from DirectX 8.0 to DirectX 8.1 and Microsoft has made a change in the way "in-place"* plug-ins connect to a host. Actually I think what really happened was MS changed it from previous version in 8, perhaps unintentionally, and put it back the way it was for 8.1.

By the by, plug-ins built with DX8.0 would not connect to older version of our apps (SF4.5 and VegasPro), but DX8.1 based plug-ins will.

We are of the opinion that this is a bug in Sonar and have talked to them about it, but perhaps we need to have another round of emails to resolve this. Plug-Ins built with any version of DX should work in our (and their) apps.

*Notice this only affects "in-place" plug-ins, there is no way for you to tell what plug-ins are in place or not, however if a plug-in shows up in ACID or Vegas as "Track Optimized" it must be in place. Non-in-place SF Plugs do work in Sonar (eg. SF Vibrato (etc.) will work, SF Track EQ (etc.) will not.)

--j

Subject:RE: Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Reply by: ihisert

Date:3/12/2003 7:01:36 PM

Okay. I think I'm getting it. SF Track EQ, Track Compressor and Reverb were three of my favorite effects I always used in Cakewalk Music Creator (using Acid Pro 3.0). These two don't work at all in Sonar (but something like SF Noise Gate does).

If wanted to start using these effects again in Sonar, would I be able to do so if I uninstalled Acid 4.0b and re-installed it without the 4.0b patch? Would it work with the 4.0a patch? (Is that patch even still available?).

I'd love to continue to use these effects in Sonar - is there a way?

Thanks,
Ian

Subject:RE: Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Reply by: SonyJEV

Date:3/13/2003 12:39:27 PM

First of all, I have recieved word from Cakewalk that they have been able to fix this on their end, but it did not make it into the 2.2 update, but it should be coming down the pike one of these days.

In the meantime you should be able to get it to work by reverting to an older version of the plug-ins. I *think* the 4.0a plug-in will work in Sonar, but ACID 4.0 ones definitely should.

Unfortunately the rules for what the installer does to plug-ins is a little complicated. Uninstalling ACID 4.0b will not uninstall any of the plug-ins if you have another SF app installed that could use the plugs. So if you had ACID and Sound Forge and/or Vegas, etc. installed as well, you would need to uninstall all the apps to get rid of the plug-ins.

After you've uninstalled all the SF apps, and the plug-ins are gone (check in the ..\Sonic Foundry\Shared Plug-Ins\Audio directory, it should be empty or perhaps gone entirely), reinstall ACID 4.0.

You should now have the following versions of the audio plug-ins:
sftrkfx1.dll 1.0.0.207
sfppack1.dll 1.0.0.239
sfppack2.dll 1.0.0.240
sfppack3.dll 1.0.0.250
sfresfilter.dll 1.0.0.22

I would recommend making a copy of the audio plug-ins directory, then re-installing all your other SF apps/updates, and then copying the older plug-ins back to Shared Plug-Ins\Audio directory.

Once the update to Sonar is out, you can re-install ACID4.0b (or the most recent SF app you have) and get the updated plug-ins.

--j

Subject:RE: Sonar 2.2 & Acid 4.0(b) Plugin Problems

Reply by: ihisert

Date:3/13/2003 12:48:02 PM

Thank you so much for your help and the news regarding Cakewalk! It is very much appreciated!

Ian