Legal Issues.... -ACID Product Family - MAGIX Community Forums Archive

ACID Product Family

Subject:Legal Issues.... Posted by: PDB Date:3/10/2003 11:13:10 AM Sorry to bring up what is possibly a boring topic, but what exactly are the legal restrictions behind a loop mix -yea, you can tell I'm totally ignorant on all the legal stuff... I mean, if I manage to make some sort of a tune out of loops and in Acid, does that make me the author of the tune with no legal bindings with anyone? ie can I copyright the tune, sell it distribute it etc at will? If so, too good to be true in my book...If not, who does one have to talk to to get some sort of "authorship" rights etc Thanks in advance for any legal prompts ! Regards Paul
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: MyST Date:3/10/2003 11:34:06 AM "I mean, if I manage to make some sort of a tune out of loops and in Acid, does that make me the author of the tune with no legal bindings with anyone?" Yes, you're the author with NO legal binding. This is one of those times it's NOT too good to be true. You just can't resell loops in there original format. M
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: ATP Date:3/10/2003 11:38:37 AM can't give you specific info, but generally it depends on the loops you are using. i think it's safe to say if you use a loop from any registered artist you'll probably have to pay the record company that the artist has signed up with for the use of the loops. i guess your own publisher should take care of these matters. sometimes it's not even possible to use certain loops, as the original author doesn't want them used at all. an example of this is when Tricky wanted to use an Elvis Costello loop. he simply was denied the rights to use it and Tricky could therefore not release the track he was using the loop in. (i believe that changed later on tho). i think classical loops are royalty free because that work is older than a certain amount of years. not too sure about this. if you're using loops that came in a loop pack made by Sonic Foundry, i don't know whether they are royalty free or not. i guess you'd have to take it up with SoFo.
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: MyST Date:3/10/2003 11:38:58 AM PS: You want to see just how GOOD this is... You can have Mick Fleetwood as the drummer in you song, and all it costs you is the price of his loop library(available from SoFo). M PPS: Just read ATP's post...yes the loops are royalty free if it is specified that they are. SoFo loop libraries are all royalty free. If, however, you're talking about looping a part of a copyrighted song and using that...you're outta luck cuz that's NOT legal.
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: ATP Date:3/10/2003 11:41:05 AM i forgot to mention drum loops are always royalty free. :)
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: jtuffen Date:3/10/2003 11:48:24 AM classical loops are most definitely not 'always royalty free' - what you're using is the recording of a performance... Yeah, so Beethoven didn't copyright his work (or anyway the copyright is long out of date) but the record label that recorded the orchestra playing the music still has the rights over the recording... When you buy a sample CD (whether from SF, or whoever) you're buying a licence to use the samples therein - some of the licences are non-transferrable, so you'd better watch out in the second hand market!! john.. namke communications out now: 'available from namke communications' 5 track CDr from Fencing Flatworm Recordings
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: PDB Date:3/10/2003 12:03:34 PM MySt, ATP and Jtuffen: Thanks for that guys! You probably noticed I'm new to this..anyway, the loops I am using so far are either 8packs or out of the Acid 3 loop CD which came with the programme...I am a little concerned because some of the loops included were created by artists... So I take it that if and when I manage to make some sort of tune (don't laugh!! ...ok, do laugh! ) I can actually call that "my little baby" and publish it?? WOW!!! (not that anyone will be interested in listening let alone buying any of my stuff for sure!!!-but still seems cool: might even be able to tell my grandkids I actually "composed" a "tune" - hope that isn't an insult to anyone in any way!) Thanks again for the quick and informative responses!! Paul.
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: MyST Date:3/10/2003 12:14:22 PM "I am a little concerned because some of the loops included were created by artists..." Correction...all the loop CDs were created by artists. ;) Here's the best example I can use. You CAN use the loops that are used in the 8-Pack for your own creation and publish that creation with no legal problems. You CANNOT however, publish the 8-Pack. So, visit the HUGE loop CD library from SoFo and start cranking out your masterpieces! Even if it's just a masterpiece to you...it's still a masterpiece. Once you create a song that you then burn to CD and listen to on your home stereo, you'll be hooked! Acid is a drug! M
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: MyST Date:3/10/2003 12:18:33 PM http://www.sonicfoundry.com/support/SupportProduct.asp?FamilyID=2&Family=ACID&TopicID=2&DetailID=1058 Above is the link to the official SoFo stand on this. Below is the link to the huge selection of SoFo loop CD libraries. http://www.sonicfoundry.com/shopping/category.asp?id=5 M
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: SPP Date:3/10/2003 12:27:02 PM This discussion comes up from time to time. If you purchase the loop, you are entitled to call it your own when using it in a song or other project...even if you don't alter it but merely arrange it with other loops. That's the whole idea with Acid and Loops for Acid. You can copyright your work, sell it, or even give it away. The exception is you can't sell the original loop in its original context. IE. Would you like to buy a couple of loops from my Sonic Foundry loop CD? Nope...can't do it legally. Now if you’re collaborating with another artist and using each other’s loop libraries, nobody could fault you for sharing loops as long as they’re in the context of the project and are not “swapped” for later individual use. I got that from a Sonic Foundry rep right here in the forums some time ago. Sonic Foundry even encourages collaborations on their Acid Planet web site. If that doesn’t say it’s OK to share loops in that specific context, I don’t know what would. Good luck and have fun. You’ve stumbled onto something great with Acid! Steve
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: PDB Date:3/10/2003 12:29:38 PM MySt, Once again a BIG thank you...and my most sincere apologies on the "some of the loops created by artists" comment: The only one who doesn't fall into the artist category here is ME!! - I will try hard to change that somehow though! When and if I create a "masterpiece" I'm sure I'll be hooked: I just hope my wife is even more tolerant than I think she is...!!! All the best, Paul.
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: PDB Date:3/10/2003 12:32:58 PM Thanks for your post too Steve. Never thought about the sharing issue, but there again, I can't begin to imagine who in their right mind would ever think about a collaboration with me!! LOL! Off I go to "paint" some more... Cheers! Paul.
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: MyST Date:3/10/2003 12:42:37 PM Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm a hobbyist with no hopes of ever publishing a song. That however, doesn't stop me from enjoying Acid a great deal. Between raising my two girls, my day job, housework, etc. I can't fathom the thought of ever having enough time to really put out something that is publishable (is that a word?). Once you start putting loops together and creating something that's truly your own, you'll love it! I tried Vegas Video once, and the same thing happened with that software. I put some snapshots together, added a track created in Acid, burned it as a VCD and watched it on my TV. Grinned from ear to ear! Also, once you start chopping up loops and REALLY start putting your own spin on them, it'll take you to another level still. After that it's FX and pitch changes, panning and volume envelopes, etc. Enjoy your software! M
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: MyST Date:3/10/2003 1:54:43 PM One last thing... (famous last words) You will never listen to music the same way again, I promise you! Get ready to listen to a song and freak when you hear a well placed cymbal hit. Or how a song is mixed. You'll tell someone, your wife for example, to listen at a particular part of a song. When that part comes up you're picking out details that she's still waiting for. That comes with creating music. You'll start listening to music for the quality of the piece, not so much because it's popular on the top 40 charts. You'll hear Jazz, Blues, etc in a different way than you used to. Example: Dire Straits' hit was Sultan of Swing. It's excellent, but take a listen to Private Investigation sometime on a good stereo with quality speakers that have good imaging. Welcome to the club! M
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: PDB Date:3/11/2003 3:23:02 AM err....MySt...I'm beginning to think that you may in fact be responsible for my taking the plunge into Acid to begin with!! I, too, got hooked on Vegas Video 3 in July last year: having great fun boring all mmy friends and relatives with vids of my baby daughter!! Of course I have been using music off my cd collection to do those...until I heard about people doing their own stuff in Acid - and I have a sneaky suspicion you may have been one of them!!! So off I go, downloaded Acid express, got my 1st 8pack, and after about an hour of playing around with that promptly pulled my credit card out and bought Acid Music 3!! (thought Acid 4 pro was a bit too much after I have just upgraded to Vegas + DVD...though I wish I could actually mix music to 5.1). Well at least, I thought, if I never manage to make something decent music-wise, I will have helped SoFo with a little $$ contribution. Anyway, just wanted to thank you for prompting my curiosity and luring me this way! See you on the Vegas Forum!! All the best, Paul.
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: PDB Date:3/11/2003 3:25:10 AM BTW, can you recommend a list of top acid loop collection to a 37 year old father?? I know it depends on one's music tastes but I'm pretty much open to anything except perhaps the new dance stuff... Thanks again! Paul. PS: Dire Straits - now those were the days!!!...:)
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: MyST Date:3/11/2003 6:42:02 AM Well...from a 38 year old father to a 37 year old father... http://www.sonicfoundry.com/shopping/category.asp?id=5 Above is the link to the LOOPS section of the SoFo store. What you want to do is clic on the TITLE of each loop library. That takes you to a description of each library where you'll also find 4 or 5 sample loops to download free of charge. Sometimes there is also a sample song to listen to. That should give you an indication of the style of that specific loop CD. As far as favourites go, well that's a tough one since we're all different. I can however tell you that the Bill Laswell collection is the best "quality" loop library I own. I like MacMoney's stuff also. The BIG recommendation I can give to you though, since you're like me(a hobbyist), is to go for the "soundbeds" collections. Then you add other loops to a bed to make a complete project. For that, you can't beat the James Johnson and Ma Ja Le's collections. I have Liquid Planet, Slow Silhouette and Saturn & Elsewhere. All excellent! I also have the Mick Fleetwood and Workinman's Bass CDs. Just taking a loop from each and putting them together gave me an unbelievably good beat. That's on standby until I can think of what else to add to it. Downtempo Beats is pretty good because of the way it's set up in "packets". Each packet has a particular feel to it. So depending on your mood, you should find a packet that you can work with. Cinematix is good to add that certain atmosphere to a song. This library is also useful for your Vegas montages(as are the James Johnson and Ma Ja le). I've got others...can't think of all of them right now. Basically, since you're starting out, I'd recommend getting libraries that have the bass, drums, guitar ,etc already mixed in the loop. Later, you'll want the single instrument loop CD. But for now,the "mixed" loops allow you can discover what direction you want to take later, be it ambient music, hip hop, dance, blues, jazz, whatever. Hope this helps. M
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: PDB Date:3/11/2003 7:32:12 AM Thanks MySt! I will try some downloads on the samples you suggest and snoop around...I seem to be experiencing a similar syndrome to when I first started using Vegas Video: ie. I need to explore whatever is available and have to control that impulsive urge to go out and buy, buy, buy...(mind you I don't regret the investment in Spicemaster 2 one little bit...) I will make a very conscious effort to approach this "music" hobby in a more pragmatic way especially seeing as there is sooo much to choose from. Once again, thanks for your suggestions! All the best, Paul.
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: pvnuk Date:3/26/2003 12:10:33 AM Hey Myst, I just wanted to say thanks for the kind words about our libraries. Also if anyone has done a killer tune using any of our loops we would LOVE to hear them!!! Lastly, we usually have demo songs and or free loops up o our sight so stop by if you are wondering what style our libraries sound like. Paul Vnuk (Ma Ja Le) www.majale.com
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: MyST Date:3/26/2003 6:02:18 AM I didn't know you had a website. I'll be visiting often! M
Subject:RE: Legal Issues.... Reply by: dkistner Date:3/26/2003 7:03:50 PM Boy, you said that right. And what a wonderful discovery it all is, this music-making. Music is better than drugs, and it's the best medicine there ever was.

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