Subject:A Really Big, Big Difference???

Posted by: fresnog

Date:3/3/2003 11:51:18 PM

Okay, I recently upgraded my system to include a 'real' pair of studio monitors. I also purchased an ART DIO A/D converter to which I am plugging guitar into and going to the SPDIF on my (don't laugh....) Live! Drive. All is well, but I can't help but wonder how much the SB is affecting the digital signal in.

I am thinking my next step should be a sound card upgrade.
Let's say I switched to an Audiophile 2496 (those run about $150 - $175, right?)
I believe it has SPDIF in, so I could still use my ART DIO A/D converter through this soundcard.

What's the best way some of you could describe how much of a difference I would be able to hear using this card over a SB?...
And please, be honest. If you've never upgraded from a SB before, don't just trash them for the sake of trashing them. I really would like to know some first hand dirt.

Thanks,

Fresnog

oh yeah, If i am not recording any MIDI in my project, is there a difference between using the KX ASIO drivers and Classic Wave Driver (both at 48K)?

thx

Subject:RE: A Really Big, Big Difference???

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:3/4/2003 1:22:54 AM

Hey fresnog,

In all honesty I've only used a echo layla 20 soundcard. Never touched a sblive. But from what I've gathered about gear in general is "you get what you pay for". By that I mean in the quality of the components/manufacturing/drivers for said card/unit. There are those who feel that if your ad/da converters aren't of the apogee brand then your NOT really getting a accurate import. [but we all don't have a few grand lying around]

The same question could have been asked about microphones. Say someone asked about instead of using "radio shack" mics for a voice over to a RODE NTK...or what have you. Both would get the job done but which do you think would give the best capture of the moment?

SB cards are made for playing games...The others are made to "score" for them. ;)

Will you hear a difference? That can only be answered by how well you've tuned your listening abilities. You most definitely should.

I would make sure to remove the sb card entirely so that there are no IRQ conflicts with your new card.

Ed.

Btw...sorry, I know you asked for input from those with "first hand dirt". But I felt my anaolgy would fit what you were asking for. Later.

Subject:RE: A Really Big, Big Difference???

Reply by: Twinstates

Date:3/4/2003 3:46:55 AM

SPDIf is digital so there will be no loss of quality going into the converters. If yo are using the analogue outs on the SB Live to feed your monitors then you will most def notice a difference by changing the s/card. I started out on an SB Live when they first came out and really noticed the difference, the main point was that there seemed to be some strange boosting going on in the mids. Replaced that with a Korg card and instantly sounded better.

Cheers

TS

Subject:RE: A Really Big, Big Difference???

Reply by: ATP

Date:3/4/2003 3:49:37 AM

i have both an SB Live and an Audiophile in my system and the difference in quality is very noticable. the Audiophile produces a warmer, fuller sound, and i can hear a lot more of the audio spectrum.

of course, what helps is that i now work exclusively in 24 bits on the Audiophile rather than 16 bits with the Live, so that accounts for a lot of the increase in quality. another thing is you're talking about using SPDIF on both cards. i never worked with that on either card, so i can't really tell you if there is a noticable difference. there shouldn't be one, theoretically, but then, we ARE talking about Creative products here. ;)

Subject:RE: A Really Big, Big Difference???

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:3/4/2003 2:25:26 PM

The difference between a SB Live! and the Audiophile 2496 was phenomenal to me. Sound Blaster cards are notoriously noisy compared to the pro-quality offerings out there. Creative claims audio superiority in their new Audigy 2 line, but I'm not convinced at all.

Flexibility is also an issue. I'm finding out from other users of consumer cards that the so-called S/PDIF interfaces on their cards give them no way of adjusting master clock settings and S/PDIF sample rates. Highly inexcusable.

Additionally, who wants bloatware in their system when all that's wanted is a straight-up audio interface that will do its job well? (Anyone who has a Sound Blaster will know what I'm talking about.)

Iacobus

Subject:RE: A Really Big, Big Difference???

Reply by: midiaxer

Date:3/4/2003 2:38:58 PM

I'm using the new Audigy 2 and recording at 44 and 48, 24 bit, using analog in and sounds great.

Subject:RE: A Really Big, Big Difference???

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:3/4/2003 9:06:55 PM

That's fine and all, but there's still the flexibility issue. Can the Audigy 2 derive its master clock from its S/PDIF in? (Based on my research, I believe the answer is no.) Just about all pro-quality cards with S/PDIF have this feature.

If two digital audio devices are set to their internal clocks when connected, then all one is likely going to get is junk for audio, drift or even nothing at all.

For example, my GNX2 guitar effects processor produces digital audio via its coaxial S/PDIF out at 24-bit/44.1 kHz. Since it's acting as the source of the digital audio, it must act as the master for everything else to digitally sync to.

Therefore, my Audiophile 2496 soundcard must derive its clock from the S/PDIF input, rather than internally. Once the Audiophile is locked on to the GNX, everything is fine.

Users in the DigiTech forums are having problems using S/PDIF on their consumer cards with the GNX guitar processors for the reasons I stated earlier. I'm not trying to slam the Audigy. My only intention is to give users an informed purchase should they ask.

Iacobus

Subject:RE: A Really Big, Big Difference???

Reply by: oofunk

Date:3/5/2003 8:20:32 AM

Well i upgraded from my live to a Terratec dmx6fire... And i am extremly happy with it... Sound quality is supurb compare to the live, warmer, fuller and far more defined!

Records in true 96khz 48bit too unlike the aduigy! which only pretends and ups the sample rate internally once recorded! (not sure if this applys to the audigy2) plus its also cheaper!

Only problem i have is that now i work with Asio i cannot load 2 apps at once ie reason2 and acid 4 or fruityloops and cool edit 2 as they are both trying to use the driver! Fine though if you revert to the WDM drivers..

hope this info helps.

Funk