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Subject:Creativity and Acid
Posted by: Pindal
Date:2/28/2003 3:40:38 PM

Twinstates has said that in other thread and I am with him. Acid is a great programme and I consider it is underrated in the pro arena because a lot of people are not aware of their possibilities. Is by far the best application for composing music if you are alone, to start from scrap, I mean. It´s like having a band. I use it for rock -pop-blues, etc and sometimes I start the song with my acoustic guitar and after that I try different drums and things and I can end up with a different and better song because Acid can lead you to a different landscape, a different rythm or a different mood.
In other occasions I get the inspiration directly from Acid, from a riff, a drum loop, etc and some of my songs would not exist without Acid so I am very greatful to the Sofo people and I like to say that in this difficult time for them.
But this is not all. To edit audio is a dream in Acid. You can repeat a verse or a chorus or move things very easily. In Cubase or Logic is more complicated. Yoy can do all of your work in Acid:you can record audio and apply effects and mix and render your song.
Anyway, you can not compare Acid with other apps. like Pro Tools, Cubase, etc. If you want to record a band, you have the songs, etc. go for ProTools or the like. But if you are alone and your aim is create music and have fun Acid, is fantastic.
Acid is the band. ProTools is the studio
In this forum a lot of people despise Acid but I would like to say:
Than you Acid!

Subject:RE: Creativity and Acid
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:2/28/2003 10:03:58 PM

Definitely can agree with Pindal, here. I used to wonder what I was going to do with my ideas until ACID Pro came along. I also record guitar (electric) with ACID Pro as backup.

The most interesting thing is that I have no need for a band (unless I go live), which is amazing since I don't have to rely on others to get something done. There are other pros and cons, which I'm sure other musicians here can relate to. There's no social interaction, for example, but then again there are no egos clashing either or talking behind one's back. (I've seen this happen so many times it's almost expected to happen.)


Subject:RE: Creativity and Acid
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:2/28/2003 10:54:32 PM

---Acid is the band. ProTools is the studio---

Correction...Acid is the band. Vegas is the studio!!!

I just feel that when I use these apps that I'm in control of them and NOT the other way around.


Btw...sonar is growing on me but got put aside when vegas got the audio updated. Still a great app though.

Subject:RE: Creativity and Acid
Reply by: Pindal
Date:3/1/2003 11:52:01 AM

I would like insist in one thing. Acid can enrich your music, can take it to another level. If you come up with a chord succession you can try it over a latin groove or a funky groove and sometimes the unexpected occurs.

The possibility of hearing loops in context with your song is the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel. Before hand you can never say if a loop is going to work in your song and sometimes the weirdest loop or a loop from a totally diferent style can give to your song what it needs. Killer!

In the same way as you never know what is going to come up when you pick up your guitar, you can never say what is going to happen when you play with Acid. In these sense, Acid is a real musical instrument. And for me the most attracting thing in music is the mistery in it, the fact that you don´t know what is going to come up from a riff or a chord succession

Subject:RE: Creativity and Acid
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:3/1/2003 3:08:43 PM

Let me add. Acid has even changed my oppertunities to make money with my music. It has actually increased my ability to be creative and competitive at the same time. It works fine for me.

Subject:RE: Creativity and Acid
Reply by: fresnog
Date:3/1/2003 10:16:01 PM

Hey SHTUNOT, can you elaborate a little on why you consider Vegas 'the studio'?
I record, mix and apply plugins in Acid, then I go over to Sound Forge for 'mastering.'

What are some of the main 'studio' points of Vegas?
I've never used it before.

Thanks in advance,


Subject:RE: Creativity and Acid
Reply by: djfullshred
Date:3/1/2003 11:24:49 PM

It's not neceessarily the the app that makes "pro music", it's how you use it. A great musician can pick up a cheapo intrument & make it sound "professional". If something inspires you to create - I say use it! You can also use Acid to loop up a bunch of pre-canned sounds if that makes you happy too. I don't use it that way in my studio, however. I've found Acid to be an invaluable tool for quickly trying out different arrangements of my own music. I record & mix all my music in Cubase SX, and use Acid for assisting in arrangement & time stretching of audio files for every project I work on. Who cares what anybody thinks is "professional" gear or not. Any song you hear on the radio might have a combination of the most expensive gear available & the cheapest garage sale junk used to make it.

Subject:RE: Creativity and Acid
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:3/3/2003 12:32:51 PM

---What are some of the main 'studio' points of Vegas?---

Hey fresnog...

Its hard for me to pinpoint particulars that would make vegas say more powerfull/versatile/functional/efficient than acid/cubase/sonar/logic. To me its the overall approach that vegas takes thats the selling point to me.

With the introduction of DX automation,buss tracks,media bins,asio:record input monitoring,killer scrubbing/jog tools[F3 or F9/jkl] I have come to a point where I think about the project at hand not which app I'll have to bounce my audio to so I can complete my work.

Plus the little enhancements go a long way for me: ie:auto hide docking area,mouses back/forward buttons in vegas's explorer[still needs work though]. The flow in this app is better than in sonar IMHO[plus the gui is better]. There is another one I hope they get to: the ability to have the brouse function open to the recorded files folder instead of the system tree being "collapsed" and then having to search thru the selected HD for it. Minor but it would be a big plus for myself.

Asio:record input monitoring...Get the demo and try this out. I use wavearts masterverb for verb on say a vocalists take. The great thing is that it doesn't "print" the wet siganl, only the dry signal...BUT when you "disarm" the track from record mode the plugin is still there and you have the option of then printing the audio to a new track,etc...No more need to route a channel to a verb device. I can see this being in acid 5.

Mind you that vegas is a multitracking app:ie: more than just two inputs at a time. And it doesn't do anywhere near what logic/cubase/sonar does in features. You have to pick the one that will fit "your" working needs. For me it fits perfectly. But I also have sonar "just in case". ;)

I've tried mixing in acid and don't like it at all. It can be done but I prefer to have it done in vegas. I just view acid as the content creator and vegas as the finished product apps. But mind you that this "mindset" was carried over from acid 1-3. Much of the improvements that vegas got came from acid 4 so I've been giving it a shot again. I guess old habits are hard to break.



Subject:RE: Creativity and Acid
Reply by: drbam
Date:3/3/2003 6:12:30 PM

<<Mind you that vegas is a multitracking app:ie: more than just two inputs at a time. And it doesn't do anywhere near what logic/cubase/sonar does in features. You have to pick the one that will fit "your" working needs. For me it fits perfectly. But I also have sonar "just in case". ;)>>

You have Sonar "just in case" of what?



Subject:RE: Creativity and Acid
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:3/4/2003 1:57:35 AM

Just in case...What?

Alot of reasons actually. The biggest would be for "not having all my eggs in one basket". Bugs my friend...ALL software apps are prone to having something go wrong at one point or another. Could anybody have predicted such a poor acid 4.0 release? Not me. But I still had vegas 3 and sonar 2 in a pinch. What if something happened to sonar in the next revision. Hopefully [knock on wood] it won't happen to all three. [must then roll back on a version]

Plus its always a "leap frog" effect between competitors. Sonar is great but no 5.1. Vegas/acid is great but no rewire for reason[back to sonar]. Sofo's gui is king...only use sonar for dxi's and reason[back to vegas/acid]. The awesome thing is between these three apps I feel I have my bases covered in terms of the latest audio tech. Much of which is unfortunately added to sofo apps at a much later date. Love using them but hate waiting for them to catch up...sorry but true.

IMHO we should have at least had buss tracks for [at least]volume/pan,alternate time signatures,all the envelope/panning types within 3.0. I mean come on...Sofo please don't hold out on silly things like a "hold" envelope type feature for the next upgrade just because it will make me want to buy it.

Though I must say that by version 4.0b I'm pretty happy for my needs. And I can hardly wait till vegas gets a tweak or two...sorry fot that small rant.


Subject:RE: Creativity and Acid
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:3/4/2003 1:59:06 AM

---Any song you hear on the radio might have a combination of the most expensive gear available & the cheapest garage sale junk used to make it.---

Very true!


Subject:SHTUNOT Creativity and Acid & VEGAS
Reply by: ozzborn
Date:3/4/2003 5:32:47 AM

please explain the diffrence between mixing in acid and vegas to you. i also use both,let me explain how i use them.

1. when making music i use acid synced to reason(REWIRE would make acid perfect,well and stability but this is another thread)via vmr. because i dont like the way acid monitors midi i record anything external(pulsar,korg karma,nord lead and vsti's)as audio.

2. i render tracks in reason(since i have no choice)than continue arranging the rest of the project in acid.

3.i than render the finished track in acid(2trk stero wave) and open up this finished track in vegas 3.0

4.depending on the type of music im doing usally determines what i do next.
if its a hip hop,neosoul,r-n-b,raprock or a pop track i normally just have to record vocals. if i record 2o tracks of vocals, i usally combine the best parts together into one take with volume automation and slight compression.

5. i than render the vocals to a stero wave and open this back in acid and mix.

if this was a more live project with equal live parts(32 measures or more for each track) with other musicians i would probably stay in vegas because acid isn't made to work with 8 or more really long tracks. but 9.7 out of 10 this is not the case

because im mixing mostly with wave plugs(until i get 2 uad cards)i dont see any diffrence between mixing in acid or vegas.

Subject:RE: SHTUNOT Creativity and Acid & VEGAS
Reply by: gjn
Date:3/4/2003 5:58:40 AM

I have acid4,soundforge6 and vegas4. it's nice.

to really record with accoustic mirror to use soundforge is necessary.
for the creation, acid.
for the masrering végas...
could one have only one tool that integrates best of the 3 softs?
more convivial and only one regulating of the drivers..!!

Subject:RE: Ozzborn ;) Creativity and Acid & VEGAS
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:3/4/2003 4:33:35 PM


Like I said before bro its my mindset from using acid 1-3. My system was great for constructing looped arrangements but when it came down to mixing I always had some weird problem. Clicks/pops/stuttering/etc...not a showstopper but annoying enough that I just moved to the path of least resistance and did my work in vegas. Never had a problem, same plugins+track count. Its just my system...need to upgrade.

Btw...Anybody notice how the "invert track phase switch" is missing in acid? Would help in "cancelling out" some rough areas in a mix. Hmmm? [no pun intended]

Since the 4.0 upgrade I still had weird probs and haven't given it much of a shot to be honest with you. Yes I'm running a 22 track one-shot project[2:45 length] with a few extra loops+fx but the anomalys still exist[during mixing though NOT with the playback due to the track count being high or length of time]. But in very infrequent amounts. Thats good. But like I said before old habits are hard to break. Dx automation is great,buss tracks are awesome,etc...4.0b is cool.

My methods change per project:

1. I always take a rendered stereo file into sonar to rewire it to reason. ie: Made tune in acid/vegas that could use some great orchestral parts. A awesome reason refill cd is "strings". Pop a sample into the NN-19 and I'm good to go. Yadda Yadda...print in sonar the final performance. Export.

2. All vocals/instruments I record in vegas. Again my prior experiences have been weird doing tracking with acid so I feel comfortable doing all this in vegas. Sonar would be fine too. Plus I don't like that odd recording dialog in acid. It totally goes left field from what I'm used to in working with vegas/cubase/protools. I just don't see why all that screen real estate must go to waste for a take. I wish they would make THAT collapsable so that all I would see is just the meters without the dialogs.

3.Mix in vegas--tweak in soundforge 6[w/izotope ozone 2.01]---burn in cd architect 5. Easy.

The other great use of having sonar for me is that my partner uses sonar exclusively. Does all his arrangements on a korg triton>>adds stuff with reason>>>exports as a bundle file. I open that at my place to have everything in its place for me to get working. Very effiecient.

I guess most of my response was more of a biased opinion based on my system performance. Can work get done in acid 4.0b...sure. If it suites you then wear it. But everything reacts the way I want it to in vegas.


Btw...I just remembered when I was mixing with these same files in this project [22tracks] I keep getting sonar to "dropout" because of my disk meter getting to high. Works fine though in acid/vegas. LOL. I really need to upgrade this is getting...well you know. ;)

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