LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! -ACID Product Family

ACID Product Family

Subject:LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Posted by: coolout Date:1/11/2003 11:02:24 PM just so i can go on with making music and get on with my life...LOL i propose SOFO stop working on all the new features (and bugs) created by acid pro 4.0 and just give us REWIRE. who needs surround, vsti, midi in acid pro? i have apps that do these better and have been for YEARS. just give us REWIRE and provide us with the FREEDOM of seemlessly intergrating acid pro with other applications. post a message here and show your love.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ATP Date:1/12/2003 12:45:49 AM while i would agree Rewire support for ACID would make my workflow most efficient, i think the problem here is the way this issue is being addressed. first we have rewire-zealot maruuk proclaiming his supposedly knowledgable prophecies to everyone on the board for months on end, and now we have you going on and on about it. i don't mean to attack you personally or anything, but perhaps you can understand why we're all getting a bit sick of the whole issue. i think if any developers are visiting this board they should have a good idea by now of what people think, and i assume rewire support will be available in ACID 5, amongst other updates/improvements. i wouldn't mind if the subject were put to rest now. SF has gotten the message, and it's up to them to decide if they're going to implement it.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Laurence Date:1/12/2003 9:31:56 AM Count my as another vote for Rewire, not just in Acid, but in Vegas as well. Laurence Kingston
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: hsonik Date:1/12/2003 9:46:08 AM yes yes yes yes yes
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: dkistner Date:1/12/2003 9:52:39 AM If it's easily added, yes. If Rewire is expected to fly and be around a while, yes.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Iacobus Date:1/12/2003 4:02:39 PM Everyone knows (as I'm sure you do) that Propellerhead is eager to get ReWire into ACID. Sooner or later, it'll more than likely happen. You'll just have to be patient. Personally, I don't have a need for ReWire right now. (I don't really know if I ever will.) I'm quite happy producing my own sounds without having to use other apps as a crutch. (Well, besides Sound Forge, anyway.) :) Iacobus
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Jacose Date:1/12/2003 4:27:44 PM mD what do you mean, using other appz as a crutch??? do you actually think there would be something wrong with using reason???? if so , that is pathetic...
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: waynegee Date:1/12/2003 4:36:08 PM well, as cool as Rewire would be...shouldn't we wait until the fate of SoFo is known and solidified before we start whining and making MORE requests? Just a thought...
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:1/12/2003 4:43:04 PM well, as cool as Rewire would be...shouldn't we wait until the fate of SoFo is known and solidified before we start whining and making MORE requests? Just a thought... if sofo would have added rewire instead of vsti 's and 5.1 we would have been able to get the vstis and better midi in another app, without the mess. the only time 4.0ab etc. crashes, is when i use external midi and vsti's
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: L25 Date:1/12/2003 5:44:06 PM Same with me, I need to chant and pray when using absynth, just tried crystal. It is very cool but locks up on long multi voice. I basically need to render in small chucks ASAP because eventually it will crash or lock up. Triangle I and II and FM7 demo are very stable with ACID. I have not tried 5.1. Everything else works very well ala 3g. I love ACID, but I am going to spend more time with Sonar w/ DXi or vst wrapper, (been eyeing a Q rack) and keep using acid with loops and audio files.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Iacobus Date:1/12/2003 7:14:41 PM I'm sorry, Jacose. I just get more than a little irritated when people suggest that ACID is sh-t just because it doesn't have ReWire (...yet). That is an affront to musicians like me who use ACID as it is. (I wouldn't have it any other way, thank you very much.) I just thought I'd turn the tables a bit. Again, sorry. Iacobus
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:1/12/2003 9:32:58 PM ATP--Let's cut to the chase here. It wasn't so very long ago that SOFO employee "Peter" responded to my Rewire presentation thusly: "I don't see anybody else in here asking for Rewire. We have not made it a priority." In fact, even then, many had shown great interest--and after a number of us delineated the exceptional benefits to those who weren't acqainted with it, many more began to clamor for it--especially as SOFO's own attempts at expanding the internal feature set crashed and burned badly. In fact, a golden vision of app perfection began to form in many folks' mind: Acid Pro 3.0g tweaked up with the latest audio engine, but virginal, simple and pure as always--robust, able to run on dopey, badly tweaked machines and with...REWIRE. That's it. That's all anybody really needs. That's all she wrote. Now given the current turmoil, layoffs, internal corporate chaos and it's inevitable effect on the SOFO development group--do we really want Rewire implemented on top of this sloppy mess 4.0b by guys with pink slips in their mailboxes who won't even be around to explain their code annotations to the New Guys scratching their heads over it? Yikes, been there, done that. We don't want to go there. As you can see with the incomplete and haphazard patch job SOFO's done with 4.0b, these are not the Droids we're looking for, though certain posters here would like to cloud our minds into thinking they are. The decision to ignore Rewire and shove a bunch of half-baked unrequested features into Acid was made by panicky product managers in chaos--created by a stock price tumbling well South of a buck--folks whose employment contracts were suddenly about as dependable as Kim Jong Il's handshake. Getting Bob "Wizard" Freeble, the last guy still left on the SOFO bench and the reigning moderator of SOFO's D&D FRP weekends, to implement Rewire for us...uh, I'll pass. Better some guy getting a regular paycheck, health benefits and a 401k in a well-lighted room where they can actually pay the electric bill and the dev tools haven't been sabotaged by outgoing disgruntled coders with their Yodas and Speeder-bike models stuffed into toner boxes just before security escorts them out the door. Though when it works the first time, it'll sure be lonely in here.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:1/12/2003 11:27:20 PM maruuk, i know you're going to keep yelling doom and gloom...your wars on this forum are infamous, but the purpose of this thread is to provide positive support of rewire...to whatever hands acid pro ends up in. show some love. i did a search for peter's stance on rewire and i found some interesting quotes. "I am all for the integration you have been asking about, be it ReWire or some other technology. We didn't get to it for ACID 4. There are more reasons for this than just resources and time." "I never said that ReWire was a bad thing. We know that integration is important. I met with the ReWire guys at NAMM and actually have had the SDK for sometime before that. It is very straight foward technology." "I will repeat myself ONE MORE TIME. We made a choice based upon the needs of the many. ReWire did not fit into that. We have only so many resources to develope products. We have to make choices." " It is not a waste of time for us to persue the MIDI features in the future. Our products have never remained static. We set out to address the need to MIDI editing in ACID 4. We have both a workable model and a means to expand the product. While you may not consider this significant, we do. While you may not be able to see the potential now that ACID has a MIDI editing architecture, I do. I know what I can do now from a developers standpoint. There many things that I can do now that would address many of your requests. Sure we could have chosen another path - ReWire if you'd like - but that would meet a smaller group of users and require a larger investment in third party tools for the average user. I know the technologies very well and know exactly how they could enhance ACID. It is about the logical progression for the largest user base of the product. When trying to please the larger group, it is inevitable that we can't satisfy the specific needs of every user. We always get angry users that don't understand us when we make a new release or update. This will never change. Improvements are sometimes incremental. I believe we are on the right track - expanding the features and capabilities. While it would be great to meet every demand of every different type of user the first time, realistically this doesn't happen." maybe, peter and the rest of SOFO just underestimated how much of the install base uses other software in addition to acid pro. maybe, they wanted to market acid pro as a more complete solution out of the box. i donno...post a message on this thread and simply let them know: WE WANT REWIRE
Subject:Maruuk... Reply by: waynegee Date:1/13/2003 12:26:45 AM you rock. You wrote the long version of what I was bascially saying in my one-sentence post. Let 'em whine...Rewire is so fecking low on SoFo's priority list, I can't even believe someone is puttin' up a request list...the guys are trying to figure out how they are gonna pay their house notes in 6 months. I found this quote to be especially interesting: "and simply let them know: WE WANT REWIRE". You know what guys... they know
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: dkistner Date:1/13/2003 5:33:46 AM If Acid 4 had not had VSTi capability, I would not have bought it. I bought it specifically because they'd added this capability. It was the $99 deal, and at the time it was the only VSTi host I knew about that I could afford. I'd never done anything with loop-based composition before, either, and wanted to try it out to see what all the hoopla was about. But I would not have bought it just for that. Not everybody comes into audio work at the high end, you know; not from the product standpoint--being able to afford or even knowing about what's out there or what they're gonna need--and certainly not from the standpoint of expertise. If I had started out trying to use some of these higher-end apps, I never would have gotten anywhere because their complexities would have blown my mind out the window. About Rewire: I think there's potential for Rewire to really take off and become a standard, but there's also the potential for it to become somewhat analogous to zip drives, which were a great idea but not strongly embraced. VSTis are more analogous to CD-RW drives: they've really caught on, and people everywhere are using them and clamoring for "bigger, better, faster" versions of the product, just like we've done with our CD-RW drives/media. I think it was very smart of SoFo to add VSTi support to Acid.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Jacose Date:1/13/2003 11:23:52 AM well ,I TOTALLY agree with you, but I see nothing wrong with using synths or fruityloops, or stuff like that in my music... I dont feel like using my cat for sound fx otherwise, my "pathetic" comment was quite harsh, I must have been tired, sorry for that, I respect you.
Subject:petition? Reply by: Jacose Date:1/13/2003 11:26:05 AM ok, so you have like 4 people that definetly WANT rewire and a few others who think its cool (including me) and many others who dont care. as well as the 1000s of users who didnt post here~! is there a point to this thread?
Subject:RE: petition? Reply by: Jacose Date:1/13/2003 11:29:49 AM as far as I am concerned, no one IS asking for rewire (not to say it wouldnt be nice tho)
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:1/15/2003 7:56:23 AM wow...diane, if you bought acid pro just for vsti support i feel bad. you didn't have to spend 100 bucks just for a vsti host. there's alot ones out there for $50 and under and even some free ones. www.kvr-vst.com just search under hosts. the majority of folks bought acid pro for the loop manipulation. that's what it does best. IMHO, rewire IS a standard. it's been out for at least two years (since rebirth) and there's at least 15 applications that have it. some that are cheaper than acid. way more than have surround or DXi capability. i think rewire actually came before vsti. SOFO is just behind on this one.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: L25 Date:1/15/2003 8:30:52 AM coolout, I upgraded to 4.0 specifically for it's VSTi support
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:1/15/2003 9:29:22 AM o.k. i'm not gonna lie, that's how they got my 100 bucks, but then i realized the implementation wasn't as good as my other my other vsti hosts. i got reason, started using rewire and saw the light. if acid had a more open architecture i probably wouldn't complain about the vsti volume bug or the poor asio performance i was getting, plus as i started using reason more i had to keep shuffling wav files back and forth. i just wish i could just sync it with logic, orion, or one the other 15 apps that have rewire because it works really well. it kinda negates vsti support in acid, the need for a vst wrapper, or heck even surround if you already own software that has these features. L25 since you have sonar, what do you think of the new cakewalk reason wannabe? it looks like they crammed every feature they could think of in there: dx, dxi, vst, vsti, rewire, looping, soft synths...but then again orion platinum does about the same for less than half the cost...alas synapse has never had the deep marketing pockets of a cakewalk. no full page ads with rock stars. 2003 is gonna be interesting.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: jsv Date:1/15/2003 4:39:13 PM Hi all, When Maruuk first pointed out the need for rewire months ago, I really didn't think that was a priority. But after experiencing a lot of problems recording audio in 24/44.1 or 24/96 and with vsti's(ie: crackling...) I did myself a favor and got Cubase and with the exact same system all the problems are gone using cubase. I however regret a lot the looping capabilities of acid, so the perfect solution for me would be REWIRE IN ACID! Only fools don't change their mind! SOFO please add rewire to Acid!
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: L25 Date:1/15/2003 7:04:06 PM I have sonar, but I have barely used it, I intend to use it more. Cakewalk's Project5 will have a $429 MSRP U.S. and is scheduled for release in March 2003. Who know's if it will have the same ease of use in the looping department, I do not care for Sonar's compared with ACID. I am interested, but I would rather see ACID stay alive, correct some of it's short comings and save my money up for some software integrated hardware synth like this, but I digress ;^) http://www.creamware.de/en/products/noah/default.asp
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:1/15/2003 7:31:49 PM i saw something even better in a mag but i don't remember who made it. it was a hardware vst/vsti host in a rack...wow...the power and flexibility of a computer with the stability of a rack synth. it was a beta unit and the suggested price was more than a computer unfortunately. i don't understand someone doesn't just make a vst or directx dsp accelerator card. you know similar to the powercore or the UAD but without the proprietary plug-ins. possibly because the money's in the plug-ins...no overhead except R+D.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ATP Date:1/16/2003 4:13:52 AM well, since this discussion is now started anyway i might as well add my ideas. i posted them in another thread but as they concern rewire i thought i might post it here as wel: -------------------- there are basically 2 ways to implement it. i like to refer to them as the Right way and the Wrong way. :) Reason does it the right way : you can add an instrument in Reason (for example NNXT) and in your master app (Cubase) it's possible to assign a midi channel directly to the NNXT and play midi notes inside Cubase. this is very nice, because you can do all your midi editing in one app, which makes it that much more efficient and orderly. the WRONG way is how Ableton Live has implemented Rewire. yes, you can sync both programs, but that's it. it is not possible to assign a midi channel in Cubase to a sample in Live, so that means you have to basically do your edit twice. the audio loops in Live and the rest in Cubase. a very cumbersome way of editing your song, as you have to constantly switch programs, change multiple volume sliders etc etc. not to mention in Cubase you have very little control over the audio coming from Live. i can't believe Ableton has chosen to implement rewire in this fashion, but there it is. i do hope that when ACID will have Rewire they do it the Reason way. IE, i can assign a midi channel in Cubase to an audio loop from ACID and do all the midi editing in the master program. if ACID does not do this then it will not be any different from Ableton Live, and perhaps even less functional. for one thing it would be a completely useless feature to me personally. --------------------
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Vocalpoint Date:1/16/2003 9:47:04 AM All, Please don't turn this response a flame war or think that it's a mini-commerical for another product. This is just one man's realization and I am speaking as a long time Acid supporter who may have just lost his way. I like many of you, didn't give a rats ass about Rewire or even cared what it was, that is until I had an opportunity to see Cubase SX/Reason/Rewire in action at a local studio recently. It was a mind blowing and pivotal experience...so much so that I went and got Reason, got all hooked up in Cubase SX and off I went. To be completely honest (and strangely saddened) - I haven't been back to Acid. Part of this was due to finally giving up on 4.0 and going back to 3.0g permanently. Acid 4.0 had become way too complicated and unpredictable to be useful in my standard workflow. All the new trappings(VSTi, MIDI) added to the "non-stability" and "non-ability" to connect to anything else out there has left me frustrated and confused. Trust me - I tried and tried to get to like 4.0 but something changed me after that Rewire experience. I am truly struggling to find any use for Acid anymore. 3.0g still gets fired up occasionally for laying out some quick ideas but I just don't stay in Acid like I used to. That Rewire experience opened my eyes to possibilities that cannot be realized with Acid alone(or even if Acid could connect/link with Vegas in some way - you think we would have at least had that by now). Given the financial black cloud that SF is struggling under right now...I am feeling like not only is this company(which I have supported for a long while) folding up their tents...maybe the products themselves have finally been surpassed by bigger, more creative tools. Anyone else care to comment - good, bad or ugly? Cuzin B
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:1/16/2003 10:26:58 AM i'm curious cuz. how do use loops with cubase sx? i remember reading that after steinberg and propellerheads went separate ways steinberg incorperated the slice functions of Recycle into Cubase. i've yet to find an app that deals with audio as easy as acid pro. with the chopper, beatmapper, and the simplicity of the acid pro's GUI i can do edits and arrangements in minutes that would take DAYS to get right in Logic. that's why i stuck with acid. i never even have to touch an outside audio editor. it just sad that every major app (16 at last count) has rewire. a technology that has been out in the market since 1998. (thats before vst 2.0/vsti) i don't think anyone really asked for surround mixing yet SOFO devoted a lot energy into that feature while the vsti support isn't really up to snuff yet: the volume bug, no multiple outputs, midi transmission from the GUI, etc. when i really think about it the argument that SOFO thought only a small amount of users used rewired applications doesn't hold water. guys let me get this straight. i'm supposed to have a complete dolby 5.1 surround monitoring setup, a dvd burner, and the need to deliver mixes in 5.1 but not own other audio applications? and not want to intergrate acid with any other applications? the need for rewire is greater than anything else with acid pro.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Vocalpoint Date:1/16/2003 10:43:58 AM coolout, "i'm curious cuz. how do use loops with cubase sx?" I simply convert my wav's to Rex2 and off I go. Then just drop them into Cubase/Reason at will. Tempo lock is automatic, flexible and controlled by Cubase SX. It's a no brainer. The only thing that cannot be done on the fly "ala Acid" is pitch shifting but really have no use for that in any app....usually the stretch is too pronounced and it simply doesn't sound natural. Within Reason there is a multitude of ways to get loops to pitch shift so it's really not a big deal. I usually record the real instruments at correct pitch in Cubase along side of everything coming in from Reason via Rewire. "i've yet to find an app that deals with audio as easy as acid pro. with the chopper, beatmapper, and the simplicity of the acid pro's GUI i can do edits and arrangements in minutes that would take DAYS to get right in Logic. that's why i stuck with acid. I never even have to touch an outside audio editor." Neither do I - Cubase SX has everything I need built in. A much larger toolkit for audio processing than Acid has or will ever have. "The need for rewire is greater than anything else in acid pro." I agree totally. Cuzin B
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ATP Date:1/16/2003 12:26:49 PM ----- I simply convert my wav's to Rex2 and off I go. Then just drop them into Cubase/Reason at will. Tempo lock is automatic, flexible and controlled by Cubase SX. It's a no brainer. ----- if you're willing to do the extra work of converting your wavs to rex files (and have double the size if you don't want to delete the waves) that would indeed work on beat loops or other rhythmic loops. but imagine putting an orchestra loop or voice through that process. i doubt it would sound good. otherwise i agree with the points coolout and you made. like you, for me Cubase/Reason has opened a new world, in which the current ACID is but a toy. truly a shame, considering ACID is really so much more than that. but now that i've made the switch i can't go back to ACID alone. but don't you all think SF knows about the need for rewire by now? even if they don't visit this board surely the current developement of audio programs should tell them it's time to make some changes? i'm sorry to bring it up yet again, but i kinda feel we're beating a dead horse here. nothing much we can do untill the next ACID is made, imho.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:1/16/2003 1:11:48 PM Some really thoughtful and well-written posts on the mandate for Rewire. Now that even Digidesign has gone that route, it is a de facto standard. What industry are we Acid folks in, anyway? If we were in the professional music business, we'd be looking at cool new SOFO stuff at NAMM this week. But at this point, it's sort of like SOFO saying, "Maruuk is the only one asking for midi. I don't see anyone else in here needing midi, so we have not made it a priority. When and if midi becomes a standard, we will revisit the issue, but we are currently in development of our own standard, called Kidi--Katastrophic Instrument Digital Idiocy which our one remaining part-time engineering hobbyist has already begun to implement in Acid Pro 4.0a and b. After our acquisition by KB Toys we expect industry-wide acceptance by the 3rd-quarter. Leapfrog, Mattel and Hasbro have already shown great interest. Look for some exciting news from us at the next Toy Fair."
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Vocalpoint Date:1/16/2003 1:27:53 PM ATP, "if you're willing to do the extra work of converting your wavs to rex files (and have double the size if you don't want to delete the waves) that would indeed work on beat loops or other rhythmic loops. but imagine putting an orchestra loop or voice through that process. i doubt it would sound good." Hard drive space is cheap....so storage is not an issue and I can convert gobs of files in minutes. Also Rex2 files are half the size of any Acid wav loop that I have. But I concur about orchestra loops etc... Hell - I don't even bother using these kinds of loops in Acid - never mind any other app. Any kind of unnatural pitch stretching annoys the hell out of me at the best of times. So if I need orchestral or voice or guitar....I just record them via VSTi/MIDI in Cubase SX and be done with it. Instrumental loops have their place but even for drums - using something like Battery instead of some loop disc is light years beyond what Acid can do...Chopper and all. Loops are usually too repetitive and have limited editing control. For me - it's about making the song interesting and if it's drums we are talking about...no drummer in the world does the same pattern for 58 measures.... I guess it depends on the song. I do have some stuff that is totally loop based...but like I said - after this Rewire eye opener....I need not rely on just loops for anything anymore. Makes for much better music. Cuzin B
Subject: cuzinb LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:1/16/2003 2:41:57 PM im sorry but i agree with coolout acid is the best at looping and manipulating audio. nothing comes close(except abelton live but i way prefer acid) at rearranging loops and samples. cubase sx and rex files are good if you want to use a loop as is , but if you want to chop it up,and rearange it effortlessly ,NOTHING COMPARES. i think how important these features are is dependant upon the music you make. my main music is hip hop,trip hop,neo soul,and rap/rock. here, acid is my main program. i sync to reason with the VMR(which drifts out of sync) and i usally record live with my external synths(pulsar,korg karma,nord lead)right into acid(audio) because i dont trust A4 for midi. it crashed my system enough and i dont trust it. when im done i render individual reason parts,load them in acid , than mix down. i also make elctronica,big beat,and RnB , but when i make trance,and big beat my main program becomes reason and cubase sx and abelton live(only because it rewires into cubase). for me, give me rewire with reason and i will be grateful. reason is the best,rocksolid,useful for more than just dance music,virtual studio,all in one package that money can bye. more and more sample cd/multi sample vendors are devolping for the refill format.and even though i like vsti's ,each one you use brings it own set of bugs into your daw,i would prefer to keep these in a seperate progam or a completely seperate machine(v-stack is only 50 bucks or the new project 5 can be rewired right into acid (if it had rewire). one more thing i have over 80 sample cds in acid/wav format, and for to switch all those loops and samples into rex files would be a nightmare.
Subject:RE: cuzinb LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Vocalpoint Date:1/16/2003 4:17:31 PM "im sorry but i agree with coolout acid is the best at looping and manipulating audio. nothing comes close(except abelton live but i way prefer acid) at rearranging loops and samples. cubase sx and rex files are good if you want to use a loop as is , but if you want to chop it up,and rearange it effortlessly ,NOTHING COMPARES." ozz, This thread is not about whether you agree or disagree...all I am saying is that there are other, better solutions out there and Acid may or may not get left in the dust. Rearranging/converting loops and samples to REX is easier than easy. I have over 300 sample CDs but I never need to convert all of them...just the stuff I need to use. And please be aware that I am not attempting to blatently bash Acid's capability but compare it within the grand scope of other apps out there. If you have access to some of the other tools mentioned in this thread - they COMPARE big time. Some combos COMPARE so much that they make Acid laughable in terms of what is possible. For my workflow, Acid's once unique shine is fading. Other apps/combos are leaving Acid behind and they do Acid's once unique looping and chopping basics better, faster and cleaner. 3.0g is the best version of Acid currently available for what it was designed for - looping and arranging. It is my opinion that 4.0 is going off on a tangent that is better served by other tools. Cuzin B
Subject:RE: cuzinb LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:1/16/2003 5:28:25 PM Kind of sad looking the gleaming new apps at NAMM what with Project 5, Digi Rewire and all, and even SOFO's own Vegas 4 beta, and poor little Acid is mired down in tawdry 4.0b-land. All SOFO has to do is release Acid Legacy 1.0 with Rewire 2 (basically 3.0g+audio upgrade+Rewire 2) and they'd have a HUGE hit on their hands! hint hint.
Subject:RE: cuzinb LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:1/16/2003 10:58:00 PM to cuzinb i think there are alot of great apps out and your absolutly right, acid doesn't shine like it use to. why do workarounds when other apps have things more integrated(by the way , thank you for your insightful opinion) to maruuk do you know something we dont know, hint hint
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: L25 Date:1/17/2003 1:21:42 AM I just read that Project5 will have an intoductory price for Sonar owners, that might change my mind.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:1/17/2003 2:37:02 PM Usually an introductory price is about the real street price at the major outlets like Guitar Center, etc. What's the retail, $479? Probably about $249 street--if not immediately, then within a couple of months once it gets market-saturated. Tough to be a Reason-killer, this thing better be killer! Though Acid-compatibility gives it a big push right out of the blocks.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:1/17/2003 9:27:21 PM yeah, around $200 is very nice for those specs. when i saw $479 i was like...NO WAY. it bound to be a hit, unless the synths suck. oh, by the way...here's one more app that now has rewire. http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/index.html i think that brings the number of rewire compatible applications to 17. not including mac-only apps like digital performer. SOFO...you guys are missing the boat on this one.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: MyST Date:1/18/2003 9:33:30 AM If you check out the thread in the Vegas-Audio family titled "V4 and midi" you'll see that Peter Haller plainly states that time and resources are the reason Rewire wasn't implemented in Vegas. So, I would think that the reason is the same for Acid. I would also think that it's on the agenda. M
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: waynegee Date:1/18/2003 10:04:31 AM yeah, that's what was said for ACID v3 too. You wanna keep your f@#*ing job? You wanna keep your f@#$ing company? You wanna really compete in the f@#$ing audio market? Then make it a f%&@ing priority, find the time - get the resources - stop making excuses and get on with it.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:1/18/2003 12:16:17 PM Interesting that Peter had the nerve to come in here a few months ago and state categorically that he "didn't see anybody here interested in Rewire" and that "we haven't made it a priority". Of course, he was covering for their corporate collapse and in total denial over posts pointing to major problems in the company. Since they're scheduled to announce the sale next month, the climate inhouse must be cancerous. Any head of technology at a new house worth his pocket protector is gonna insist on ripping out all this new 4.0+ garbage code and go back to square one at 3.0g--then implement Rewire 2. Of course, we should be so lucky to get a buyer who gives a flying bleep about Acid, as opposed to a liquidator.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ATP Date:1/18/2003 9:49:46 PM ------ Any head of technology at a new house worth his pocket protector is gonna insist on ripping out all this new 4.0+ garbage code and go back to square one at 3.0g--then implement Rewire 2. ------ that's the ideal situation. the realistic view would be that this head of technology has no clue what ACID is all about and only thinks in terms of profit. and well, since they've chosen the route of ACID as a one-in-all-wonder program they'll likely continue on that path. personally i don't really care what they add or improve in the midi/vsti department. if it has Rewire support as well as other improvements they should make everyone happy.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Iacobus Date:1/18/2003 9:54:34 PM Going back to 3.0 would be a step backward, merely because its audio quality is inferior to 4.0, ReWire or no. (or hasn't anyone noticed that yet?) Just a little F.Y.I., Iacobus
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:1/19/2003 6:46:04 AM "(or hasn't anyone noticed that yet?)" no i haven't noticed... this was a question i posed when acid 4.0 came out. what were the exact changes to the audio engine? no one seems to know. i transfered about 5 songs from 3.0 to 4.0. across the board i thought they sounded DIFFERENT...but i wouldn't say BETTER. maybe it's the fact i only use 16-bit/44.1khz i can't wait till this whole "financial status/state of SOFO" thing works out so we can finally get an open dialog with whoever controls the development of acid pro. it would be nice to have some basic questions resolved. and get REWIRE.
Subject:RE: REWIRE!!! but would it work? Reply by: PHATDRUMS Date:1/19/2003 3:34:34 PM i would like to pose the question that if mr haller and his fellow geniuses have screwed up their own program by implementing such tried and tested technology such as midi what makes or gives anyone the confidence that they are capable of implementing rewire ? i know most of the work has been done on the rewire front by others but do you really believe that they could seamlessley write it into acids code without problems i doubt many would be asking for rewire if if it were not for a4s design faults and poor implementation of its new features but if it had been present it would have given people many more options than they have now perhaps an internship for mr haller at steinberg or emagic would be useful it certainly couldnt hurt
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: fulani Date:1/19/2003 4:27:44 PM Rewire . YES
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: slcrz Date:1/19/2003 6:24:17 PM yes to rewire Lets keep this thread up...
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Iacobus Date:1/19/2003 9:57:06 PM As always, be sure to fill out the product suggestion form. That's the one and only true way SoFo listens, even if they don't respond to you. (The reason being this is only a community forum. SoFo reps pop in here and there, but in no way are they obligated to respond (or look/listen) to these posts.) As I've said before, Propellerhead really wants to get ReWire into ACID. SoFo knows this. So it's only a matter of time. HTH, Iacobus
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: L25 Date:1/19/2003 10:29:24 PM I have been using ACID since 1.0 and VV2 (don't think there was a VV1, just V) and I never new about the product suggestion form. I guess I will fill it out. Hey rewire sounds good to me, but never used it...anyone know what the longest ACID thread is.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:1/20/2003 4:58:58 AM doh...why didn't i see the product suggestion form. everyone should go fill that out http://www.sonicfoundry.com/support/productsuggestion.asp here's another crazy question? what if someone developed a way to use rewire over a LAN like musiclab's MIDIoverLAN+ ? it would be the same as VST system link but much better. there's at least 15 apps with rewire VS 3 with VST system link a standard $10 LAN card with rewire VS asio digital soundcard with VST system link Win 98 and above with rewire VS xp only with VST system link and of course one more reason why acid pro should have rewire. but is 10/100 ethernet capable of transfering midi and audio?
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! how about rewire as a vsti? Reply by: coolout Date:1/21/2003 8:56:14 PM even better question... has anyone used auturia storm with acid pro yet. it can function as a vsti and a REWIRE host. if SOFO fixed the vsti sync issue in theory you should be able to have a rewire app like reason running through storm as a vsti in acid. but at that point you have 3 apps going at the same time.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! how about rewire as a vsti? Reply by: Jacose Date:1/22/2003 1:40:58 AM ..storm sucks.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! how about rewire as a vsti? Reply by: coolout Date:1/22/2003 4:28:22 AM ok...but you didn't answer the question. we're you able to use storm as a vsti and also use rewire?
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! how about rewire as a vsti? Reply by: coolout Date:1/27/2003 6:10:17 AM update. i tried to use storm as a vsti and use rewire. it doesn't work. it's one or the other unfortunately. two hours wasted. i was reading a new review of acid pro 4, from this month's electronic musician or remix magazine, i'm not sure. anyway, the author stated in the article that he heard from a very reliable source that VST and REWIRE support would be included in acid pro 5. is this just another rumor floating given the state of SOFO? or is should we take this serious and stop moaning about rewire? that's the first time i've seen talk of the inclusion of rewire to acid pro in print.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! how about rewire as a vsti? Reply by: Maruuk Date:1/27/2003 4:33:59 PM cool--It's not only credible, it's inevitable. The only fly in the ointment is...will there ever BE a 5.0? I'd say 50-50 at this point given the instability of the company. The development team has to be anticipating pink slips/security/escorts to the front door any day now. If we have to wait for a potential buyer to re-introduce the product under their brand, don't hold your breath.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! how about rewire as a vsti? Reply by: coolout Date:1/27/2003 10:04:46 PM acid has too much of a reputation as an innovative product and too large of a user base not to be continued by SOMEBODY. look at samplitude. who uses that app? no one i know. it's still being developed and has passed around owners like an STD. my prediction is that the dust will settle, acid pro 5.0 will be announced by summer NAMM, it will function as a rewire synth AND host, and i will be cranking out twice as many tunes. and i'll be very happy.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! how about rewire as a vsti? Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:1/27/2003 11:27:05 PM my prediction is that the dust will settle, acid pro 5.0 will be announced by summer NAMM, it will function as a rewire synth AND host, and i will be cranking out twice as many tunes. and i'll be very happy.--- Agreed! Ed.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! how about rewire as a vsti? Reply by: RasKeita Date:1/28/2003 11:12:07 AM 5.0 heavens no. Let me get a decent 4.0 than maybe I'll think about droppin some cash for 5.0. I say develop 4.0 first get it as stable and bug free as 3 and then give all of us that invested a free 5.0 upgrade...What's right is right
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! how about rewire as a vsti? Reply by: Maruuk Date:1/28/2003 3:38:23 PM It could happen--good guys actually win sometimes.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: tympanicfrenzy Date:1/29/2003 9:27:41 AM maybe sofo will take this thread as a huge hint!
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:2/3/2003 2:59:03 PM "maybe sofo will take this thread as a huge hint!" it would really cool if someone from SOFO said "hey we're going through some re-organizing, we feel what you guys are saying about rewire and it's coming..." oh by the way... http://www.virtualsampler.de/vs3/ there goes another rewire capable app. surely rewire can't be that hard to implement.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: MyST Date:2/3/2003 3:51:59 PM Again..from my previous post. This is about as close as you're going to get to what you'd like to hear. If you check out the thread in the Vegas-Audio family titled "V4 and midi" you'll see that Peter Haller plainly states that time and resources are the reason Rewire wasn't implemented in Vegas. So, I would think that the reason is the same for Acid. I would also think that it's on the agenda. M
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/5/2003 7:09:38 PM yes
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: dkistner Date:2/6/2003 5:07:19 AM Coolout, re VSampler 3, I've been doing some initial beta testing with it and it's a good ways off from being able to be released. It was so buggy when I first installed it that I reported all the bugs, then told them I was going to have to uninstall it and wait until the next beta with some fixes are put up there. It will be an awesome thing when it's tightened down, but you make it sound like it was a real snap to add Rewire to it. Maybe it was; but I know they've reworked the whole engine. I have nothing to test VS3's Rewire capabilities, but you might and see if they've gotten it to a level you'd be happy with yet. And also there's that issue of "right" and "wrong" Rewire implementations that you or somebody else knowledgeable here posted a while back: Did they do it the right way or the wrong way? When SoFo does it, I want them to do it the "right" way.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:2/6/2003 3:23:26 PM my point was to bring up another app that has added rewire. since namm it seems like every two weeks a new app gets rewire, which is further proof that rewire is a standard protocol and is needed badly in acid pro. 15+ apps and counting. nearly every major audio app has rewire except acid pro. if time and resources are an issue why is it that smaller companies (synapse, raw material, speedsoft, etc) that seem to have less resources have no problem intergrating rewire in their products? i've been trying to figure out for the past couple of years why audio is the bastard child of the computer industry. perhaps it's because i live in a music town, i just don't see it. is there that much more money to be made in developing video apps and hardware? i've ran into hundreds of people using computers for composing music or recording audio. among my friends who work in video production, NONE of them are trying to piece together their own studio and put out video product. the common perception is that video can't be done all alone at home. with audio it's the opposite...every composer/singer-songwriter/rapper/dj wants to make an album at home, but audio it seems gets the least amount of attention. look at your average pc or mac...crippled and inferior audio technology from 4 years ago always comes standard...with video just the opposite. the average user does not need a 32 or 64 meg video card. back to SOFO...did vegas outsell acid that much? who's buying it? who is gonna use acid to do a 5.1 mix when it won't even intergrate with other apps? better yet, who can afford a good 5.1 monitoring system (at least triple the price of a stereo monitoring system) that doesn't use other audio apps in addition to acid? rewire is a must for anyone using more than one audio app to compose or mix and it's long overdue in acid pro.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: dkistner Date:2/6/2003 8:01:52 PM Coolout, you don't have to sell me. But maybe the reason the audio end of things gets short shrift is precisely BECAUSE it's possible to do it well on the side, at home. If video really cannot be done well at home, that means there are businesses who have to do it, and business tend to buy more stuff than individuals do...and then they can write it off their taxes, which makes their money go a heck of a lot further than ours does...and then they can expand and buy even more stuff. What businesses make as product has to be viewable on consumer-level computers because they figure you and me are a certain percentage of their market. (I mean, lookit...we're being counted on to turn this whole economy around!) Hardware and software manufacturers know who REALLY butters their bread. But where's the money in audio if lots (yet a relatively small percentage) of people start doing it on the side, at home? And giving it away for free, no less. Following the money, I've found, often explains why things are done the way they are done...no matter how stupid it seems to those of us in the peanut gallery. Diane P.S. It's interesting how we're all working to keep this thread sorted to the top of the forum, don't you think? :)
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:2/7/2003 8:00:07 AM "P.S. It's interesting how we're all working to keep this thread sorted to the top of the forum, don't you think? :)" diane, that was the greatest thing i heard today. LOL i'm waiting for this thread to reach 100 posts (with probably 20 by myself). i also find it strange that joel, peter, nor any other SOFO guys that frequent the forums have added their 2 cents to the thread. i'm starting to think they're dodging the issue. guys we know you're out there. give us the inside scoop.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: pwppch Date:2/7/2003 9:41:48 AM i also find it strange that joel, peter, nor any other SOFO guys that frequent the forums have added their 2 cents to the thread. i'm starting to think they're dodging the issue. guys we know you're out there. give us the inside scoop. Ok, I will respond - against my better judgment. Everybody on the ACID team is aware of the requests for ReWire from users of this forum. ReWire wont be in ACID 4.0 - in any update. We are still planning the ACID 5 feature set. ReWire is and has always been discussed. We are VERY aware of the technology and what it can and cannot do. What else would you have me say about all of this? Peter
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:2/7/2003 11:40:16 AM thanks peter, that feels real good. i take it that the updates are just bug fixes and refinements. you guys don't add new features. i understand. you guys know we want it, which means we'll get it sooner or later. one more question and i'll never mention rewire again...(well probably) even considering all the corporate drama, when can we expect acid 5.0? i read you guys don't do music conventions anymore but summer NAMM would be nice. i'll be there. if you guys show up drinks are on me. LOL
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: dkistner Date:2/7/2003 12:24:24 PM "You guys know we want it, which means we'll get it sooner or later." Oh, Coolout, would that life really did work this way. But in my experience, the chances are at best 50/50. So I've learned to be pretty happy when I get SOME of the things I want (in software and in life). Makes for far less frustration and upset. Peter, thanks for your response. We can be quiet now! :) Diane
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: nlamartina Date:2/7/2003 1:52:01 PM Coolout, No one at SoFo has ever given out a date of release for any single one of their wares, not even for the revisions. I expect that will not change. It’s simply too difficult for them to foresee all the bumps on the road of the development cycle. However, historically, SoFo app versions tend to have 1-year life spans, give or take a few months. The last two versions of Acid (3 and 4) have both been released in the summer. Conclude what you may from that empirical data. It's the most information you'll get until the eventual release. - Nick
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:2/7/2003 4:40:38 PM And remember...everybody complained "When? When? When?" and look what we got. Everybody in the vegas forums said "take as much time as you need!!!...And look what we got!!! ;) [hint hint] Ed.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: pwppch Date:2/7/2003 7:27:13 PM >>even considering all the corporate drama, when can we expect acid 5.0? Hey, we are still here. Vegas 4.0 released and we have set new sales records in the first 48 hours. Until somebody tells me to stop working, I am back working on ACID 5.0. Peter
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:2/8/2003 12:07:59 AM peter, once again thanks for joining the discussion. o.k. so there's no way to give us a timetable. can you at least confirm the likelyhood of the inclusion of rewire in 5.0 ?
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: pwppch Date:2/8/2003 9:40:50 AM >>can you at least confirm the likelyhood of the inclusion of rewire in 5.0 ? No, I can't confirm or deny anything like this. We never announce features for any give version this far in advance. Sorry. Peter
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:2/8/2003 6:29:53 PM :( so much for the inside scoop...a "highly possible" would have shut me up for good.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: groovewerx Date:2/9/2003 5:14:51 AM "the majority of folks bought acid pro for the loop manipulation. that's what it does best." thats why i have it. i think rewire is to audio software as midi is to hardware.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/9/2003 9:57:12 PM i bet we could keep this petition on top until the release of 5.0
Subject:PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/9/2003 9:58:12 PM i bet we could keep this petition on top until the release of 5.0
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: knowbody Date:2/9/2003 10:15:55 PM Especially if we keep repeating our posts! ;) Chris
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: knowbody Date:2/9/2003 10:16:12 PM Especially if we keep repeating our posts! ;) Chris
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: ATP Date:2/10/2003 12:47:07 AM posted by SonicPCH : We are still planning the ACID 5 feature set. -------------------------- that's clear enough for me. after all this i can't help but think SF would be crazy if they did not implement Rewire in the next version of ACID. it would be so illogical not to implement it that i really can't see it happening. now, the thing that will probably keep my mind occupied during the time i wait for ACID 5 is whether Rewire is going to be implemented properly. sorry to say, but knowing SF i have not a lot of faith in this happening. but then, what the hell am i doing worrying over things to come. we'll see it when it gets released. :)
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/10/2003 1:36:31 AM i would love to see rewire 2 in a5 but i would be happy with rewire 1.due to the way you monitor midi(of any kind in A4) having the midi part of the rewire feature wouldn't do any of us any good.this would just frustrate you even more because midi monitor in in this current version of acid is tediuos and would much prefer use acid for acid and reason for reason. but if you could moitor midi like the majority of other programs out there( you know , hightlight a track and and just play your keyboard.....simplicity)im all for it. or just have rewire slave and use cubase,nuendo,or protools as front ends. but if Acid5 is stable,and the midi monotoring is improved i would choose acid as master and reason as slave and would live happily ever after....
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:2/10/2003 9:58:32 AM ---now, the thing that will probably keep my mind occupied during the time i wait for ACID 5 is whether Rewire is going to be implemented properly. sorry to say, but knowing SF i have not a lot of faith in this happening-- Then why not start a thread on how you ALL want the rewire2 to be applied to acid 5. Instead of just calling sofo's R&D idiots for not thinking of it,do it for them!!!!!!! Just don't say stupid crap like "look at cubase/logic/sonar"...HOW in great "detail" like in those apps. Everyone is quick to write 5 paragraghs on how sofo messed up but you rarely see more than a sentence or two on implementation on a "wishlist". Get it? Again...What would be the "RIGHT" way to implement rewire2 into acid 5? In detail. Pros+cons. Don't forget to send it also to the suggestion page. If nobody rights anything intelligent then I'll make sure to remind you later when your bitchin in a year...dude. [sound familiar] ;) Btw...Any other bright ideas for acid 5 besides rewire2? Ed. [sofo---please keep the beta program in the same manner as it was in Vegas 4...exactly the way to handle a release. Glad I could help out.]
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: coolout Date:2/10/2003 12:27:34 PM i've already sent my vote for rewire to the suggestion link. all i want is acid to function as a rewire synth AND mixer (or slave and host...however you want to look at it). this would allow acid to be more flexible. i don't need any other new features really.
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: pwppch Date:2/10/2003 7:14:18 PM >>now, the thing that will probably keep my mind occupied during the time i wait for ACID 5 is whether Rewire is going to be implemented properly. sorry to say, but knowing SF i have not a lot of faith in this happening. but then, what the hell am i doing worrying over things to come. we'll see it when it gets released. :) << Define for me "properly". What is a "proper" ReWire Host/Device implemenation? The more details of what you expect the better. Thanks Peter
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: spiral_scratch Date:2/10/2003 8:05:00 PM if you are still in the planning stage for Acid 5, why not pop in a scripting host like in vv4...that would be interesting.
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: coolout Date:2/10/2003 9:02:28 PM "Define for me "properly". What is a "proper" ReWire Host/Device implemenation? The more details of what you expect the better." peter, please excuse any bashing on this thread. they know not what they do. speaking only for myself, this is what i need rewire in acid to do: 1. i need reason or any other rewire synth to function like a vsti(w/midi sync) in acid. (although you guys really need to make the external MIDI input port and real-time midi toggle GLOBAL settings...it's a pain in the arse having to always check those) 2. have acid's main output AND busses show up in logic or cubase's mixer. of course the transports and tempo of each app would be synced. yep that's pretty much it.
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: Laurence Date:2/10/2003 11:43:25 PM It would be nice if you could use Acid 5 as either a Rewire host or a Rewire client like Fruity Loops can. That way you could use Reason with Acid 5, but you could also use Acid 5 as a loop engine in a program like Cubase. Laurence Kingston
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: ATP Date:2/11/2003 12:51:07 AM so now i'm bashing? thanks for your support, guys. i guess you all want rewire, just like me, but whatever i say is trolling now? very well, i can see when an effort is not appreciated. besides, i have already explained in detail how i (yeah, that's just me, i can't read the minds of other people) think it should be implemented. i can't help it if you critics haven't read it. i've even gone so far as to explain it in detail using the suggestion form. look, i'm no programmer, so it's easy for me to say to do it like this or like that. i'm not even sure it's possible. but i'll just explain once more for Peter how i think Rewire should be implemented. basically, the difference is about the amount of integration with the rewire host. let's say Cubase is the Rewire host, and ACID would be the slave. now, when i want to use a a loop, i would like to be able to just load it in ACID, switch back to Cubase, add a midi track, and directly assign the loaded loop to it. so i don't even use ACID to draw a track or anything. this is all done in Cubase. this is how Reason has implemented rewire. sounds easy enough, right? apparently it isn't. take for example Ableton Live. this program also has rewire, but what does it do? it merely syncs the two programs to play together. that's it. this means that i can load a loop in Ableton, but if i want to do anything with that loop i have to compose/edit/arrange in Ableton itself. i can't do that in Cubase. ergo, i now have to edit my song in two different programs. now, i'm sure some of you will say that this is not important. i guess you are also the ones who weren't planning on using rewire in the first place. anyway, i have made my point. Peter, if my explanation above has not been clear let me know and i'll e-mail you a more detailed report.
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: pwppch Date:2/11/2003 2:23:04 AM >>now, i'm sure some of you will say that this is not important. i guess you are also the ones who weren't planning on using rewire in the first place. anyway, i have made my point. Peter, if my explanation above has not been clear let me know and i'll e-mail you a more detailed report. << You want ACID to be an "instrument" that can have its loops triggered via MIDI. This implies that ACID can be "played" in like a synth. So, you would set up ACID to assign a Note to each Loop track. You would then trigger these in real-time via MIDI. Or do you want and ACID track to be a sample playback engine with each track having a note range that can be pitched dynamically. I would assume you would also want 16 to 64 simultaneous voices out of a single track? So not only do you want ACID as a ReWire audio and MIDI Device, you also want the general capability of ACID being a playable instrument that can follow real-time (external) tempo changes as well as being a loop sequencer that can be slaved to a ReWire mixer. I take it you would want to do both of these at the same time and even run multiple instances of ACID so that one could be used as an instrument and another could be used as loop sequencer, or any combination of the two. A very different product than what ACID is. Peter
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: ATP Date:2/11/2003 4:32:19 AM well, what can i say to that? you make it sound very complicated, so i guess it is that complicated. perhaps ACID as a VSTi is more what i'm looking for then. to keep it simple, i would just want ACID to function the same as Reason, except that i will be using (non destructive time stretched) loops rather than Reason modules. would this really be a different product than what ACID is? EDIT : i feel i need to clarify a bit further. let's say Cubase is master and ACID is slave. in ACID i open a file, "loop01.wav" on Channel 1. Now i go to Cubase, select Midi track 1, and set the output of that track to ACID->Channel 1. now, when i press a key on the midi keyboard i will hear loop01.wav play, timestretched to the tempo set in Cubase. if i play a lower note, the pitch of the sound will change, but not the tempo. this can be changed by changing the properties of loop01.wav in ACID, for example setting it to One Shot. i hope this example has made it clear how i would like to see ACID used. now, whether this is possible is another matter entirely, and for that i rely on the judgement of SF's team of programmers. :)
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: slcrz Date:2/11/2003 8:29:04 AM Forget 'bout all acid being a VSTi... Just include Rewire 1 and everybody will be happy.
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: Maruuk Date:2/11/2003 1:59:56 PM 3.0g plus the audio engine upgrade (ephemeral though it may be) plus Rewire 2. That's all anybody really needs. Show Four the door.
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:2/11/2003 3:15:19 PM Didn't I say...HOW in great "detail" like in those apps. Are we supposed to read your mind? You just did the very thing I'm trying to avoid in this rewire thread. Nice one. Ed.
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: ATP Date:2/11/2003 3:40:56 PM lol you want me to spill code here? i'm no programmer, and i'm certainly not presuming to tell SF how to do their job. i've tried to give my view as clear as possible of optimally using ACID as a part of my workflow. it's not for me to say whether this solution is even possible, as i have no idea.
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:2/11/2003 3:58:44 PM ATP...I was in no way applying that towards you. Read the thread prior to my post. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for being as "detailed" as possible in your explanations dude. I'll post mine soon. My point again was to make sure sofo has a "idiot proof" example of the manner in which we ALL want rewire2 to be implemented in acid 5. Not just some ambiguous assumption that can be taken 12 different ways by 12 different people. Lets agree on what we want and NOTHING short of that. If you read from the top of this thread you can easily tell how sofo "might" make a mistake in interpreting what we want. Btw...Lets not forget about the VSTi implementation...Do you ALL still want only stereo outputs with no envelope automation [as with audio FX]? Get my point? Any other suggestions? ED.
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: coolout Date:2/11/2003 6:10:10 PM atp...you have no idea how rewire works. please review the specs on rewire. http://www.propellerheads.se/products/rewire/frame.html what you're asking for is a fundamental change in acid pro NOT rewire. don't get me wrong it's a great idea. i often thought it would me great to be able to assign a track in acid to a midi note or key command and be able to hit record and arrange the loop from live playing. that's one of the innovations people praise ableton live for...but live's GUI is bassackwards and give me motion sickness. it has the worst GUI since mixman. all the faders and buttons are too small and everything is the opposite of all other sequencers. i use a couple of techniques to arrange loops on the fly in acid pro. if i have say a percussion part that is need to arrange i'll go through and hit the key command for marker (the m key) to the rhythm i want and then draw or copy the loop to the markers while the sequence is stopped. if i need to play around with different arrangements i'll loop all the tracks at once and use the key commands for mute and solo (z and x keys) along with the shift to highlight groups of tracks. not quite ableton live but pretty close. if all you need to do is trigger a acidized wav file in cubase you need phatmatik pro. http://www.bitshiftaudio.com/products/phatmatikpro/ the call for rewire is for users that want to sync transports and patch together the audio outputs of acid and other apps. not for triggering loops in a rewire host. for that you can use phatmatik pro or to trigger just rex files you can use the free phatmatik (on the news page) or the dr.rex in reason.
Subject:RE: PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! until 5.0 Reply by: Ilia Date:2/12/2003 3:04:33 PM Some years ago, when people were begging for MIDI in SoFo applications, the developers responded that SoFo's products were really good at what they did, but in areas such as MIDI the competitors had years of expertise that SoFo didn't and that implementing such features would inevitably lead SoFo into playing catch-up. Then MIDI, and later VSTi's, appeared in ACID, and guess what -- those folks at Sonic Foundry were right. These features are still clunky and dilute the otherwise efficient and elegant workflow of Acid. Which is why implementing ReWire would have been a wiser choice from the start (at least from the application development, if not marketing perspective). Personally, I'd say that the best addition that ACID could get would be a Vegas style track, with multiple loops and/or disk-based clips on one track and automatic crossfades. I doubt that it will be implemented, though, because such a move could diminish the sales of Vegas [Audio] (just like there is little hope of seeing the two-track editing features of SoundForge in Vegas). Perhaps, SonicFoundry could meet its users half-way and implement ReWire in both Vegas and Acid.
Subject:a possible solution: Reply by: groovewerx Date:2/14/2003 6:29:52 PM rewire is a great thing and would be very helpful in acid but depending on your sound card, you may be able to route audio to/from acid to/from other apps already. i do it using directwire by egosys. the only thing i haven't figured out is how to sync acid to the other apps, perhaps hubi is the thing to use for that. but i only have acid music so for me it comes down to tempo matching. reason users can simply load their acid loops into multiple instances of dr:rex, the route them through a rewire host.
Subject:RE: a possible solution: Reply by: decrink Date:2/14/2003 10:38:44 PM Don't much care about Rewire but thought I should be the 100th post. Kind of like the 100th monkey? Wow, they must really want Rewire, there's 100 posts!
Subject:reFuse ReWire Alternative Reply by: Maruuk Date:2/15/2003 1:23:25 PM reFuse Software has just offered a little $29 to link audio and transport between Reason and Pro Tools, but just for Mac right now, but they're looking at Windows if they don't get Win ReWire out soon for Tools. It's basically their version of ReWire, but as a third-party app, not as a universal standard. Fantasy ripple wipe: (dweeoo dweeoo) Hey, they just came out with an Acid/(your fave app here) linker for $29! And it works for 3.0g!!! (Cue angelic choir and strings--sun emerges from behind dark storm clouds over Madison, WI)
Subject:RE: a possible solution: Reply by: salad Date:2/15/2003 1:24:10 PM I don't need rewire...right at this very moment. Then again, I didn't need AP4, a new soundcard, all these vsti thingies....not too long ago. Just wanted to be post 102. A musician friend gave me his old Cubase VST/24 v.3.7. It has a release date of July of 1999. It has REWIRE. It handles VSTinstruments and ASIO 24 bit audio BETTER than AP4 AND Vegas 4. It works flawlessly with the R2 update from Steinberg. Count me in for Rewire. I'll figure out what to do with it.....when I get another app that has it. That....Project Five app is looking good.
Subject:RE: a possible solution: Reply by: coolout Date:2/16/2003 7:40:38 AM yeah, SOFO is about two or three years late on the asio/vsti front but at least they're trying. when acid pro 5 comes out with rewire you'll be able to enjoy the proven midi/asio/vsti reliability of cubase with the wonderful GUI and power of acid pro. i can't wait. as far as ReFuse is concerned, i often wondered why no one has made a rewire host in vsti form. i'm no programmer but it should be possible. then again acid pro is i think the only app that has vsti BUT not rewire or vst effects. second genius idea...one phrase...rewire over LAN does 100 base T has enough throughput for at least a streaming stereo output and midi? if not how about gigabit (1000 Base T) anybody who as been using computers for audio for any length of time should have old computers laying around. imagine being able to use them like little DSP farms. kinda like VST system link but WAY better. platform independant.
Subject:RE: a possible solution: Reply by: Maruuk Date:2/16/2003 11:59:59 AM Film composers who use Gigastudio (which is to say most of them) generally have to dedicate one PC to Giga and link/sync to the host PC with the audio app, so this is a proven concept.
Subject:RE: a possible solution: Reply by: tascolas Date:2/17/2003 6:46:20 PM Coolout ? What is the midi/asio/vsti reliability of cubase ? Sx cannot even record midi with a usb interface properly. All notes after recording appear moved (!!) earlier - hehe This occurs some 10-15 minutes after the app has started and doesnt stop until u restart. Everyone using SX and usb midi has the same problem. And SX 1.05 hasnt still solved this . And anyway why bother rewiring acid to Sx - what acid really needs and i dont see any of u talkin about it is : Multitrack input recording - real time monitoring of the FX when in rec mode - a better mixer device - midi stability and finally VST FX - In my opinion if all these issues are adressed and we have a solid workstation app then lets worry about Rewire.All u guys be well - cheers
Subject:RE: a possible solution: Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/17/2003 9:22:13 PM having rewire in acid will mean diffrent things to diffrent musicans. I would use acid as the master and reason as the slave. You might use vegas,protools,logic as master and acid as slave. Sometimes you might start off using cubase sx as master and than render everything and mixdown in acid standalone. its just more options,and gives sonic foundry more potential buyers, from people who would never have bought acid. for me , if sofo fixes the way you monitor midi(vsti and extenal)i would use acid as master,reason as slave, and run vstis,my pulsar cards,and gigastudio on a seperate machine by using acid sequencer for external midi only. VSTI'S BRING TOO MANY UNPREDICTABLE and INCONSISTENT PERFORMANCE ISSUES IN ANY HOST PROGRAM.(nuendo,cubase,acid,logic,fruity loops,sonar etc.)
Subject:RE: a possible solution: Reply by: coolout Date:2/18/2003 2:45:14 AM tascolas, i don't use cubase sx, so i can't comment on usb midi with that app. maybe it's your own rhythm that's bad...LOL. if SX doesn't work right you can get an old copy of cubase VST or any of the other apps that do midi and vsti well. chances are they'll have rewire. the point is with rewire at least you have options. Multitrack input recording? real time monitoring of the FX when in rec mode? better mixer device? midi stability? VST FX? um...i already have all that with logic. i don't even care if logic 6 doesn't come out for PC. logic 5 is solid as a rock and does more than what i need with midi. plus i already have macs if i want to get logic 6. i just prefer to arrange with acid. if i could just rewire acid into logic's mixer...heaven.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: booga Date:2/18/2003 3:41:47 AM coolout you wrote: i don't think anyone really asked for surround mixing yet SOFO devoted a lot energy into that feature while the vsti support isn't really up to snuff yet: the volume bug, no multiple outputs, midi transmission from the GUI, etc. as far as it goes when i was developing sound applications something like panning the sound (even 5.1 sound) was simply a matter of settings some parameters. i dont know if anyone asked for surround mixing but i think it was easy enough to do in a couple days to a week. hopefully the bugs and things you mentioned will be fixed and addressed in new updates. from the business stand points the companies do want to make the best selling product out there and adding the features to their products keeps the products alive. the companies do have meetings and determine what the most important features need to be added. if the company survives (which i know nothing about the current situation) it is only a matter of time before those features will be added. developers do read these posts and do go through this stuff so dont give up yall. peace, booga
Subject:RE: a possible solution: Reply by: Maruuk Date:2/18/2003 3:14:15 PM cool--You said it, let the Big Boyz who've already worked out the audio monitoring, VSTi and midi bugs handle that stuff. Let Acid be Acid. Nobody does loops as well, and you can get a groove on in seconds with terrific auditioning features and a killer interface. Tacking all this other halfass crap on...badly...does not advance the art. Acid needs VSTi, midi, and OPT about as much as a hunter needs an accordian.
Subject:let acid be acid Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/19/2003 2:36:01 AM all of us have said this many many times (let acid be acid) i hope sofo is listening and if there listening i hope they do something about it. the only drawback to using acid as a rewire slave is the loss of directx effects.(in protools we might not lose directx effects because protools uses RTAS)
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/20/2003 8:08:54 AM keep it on top
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: slcrz Date:2/21/2003 8:59:12 AM up for rewire !!!
Subject:YES!!! RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: caldvd Date:2/21/2003 12:51:14 PM YES! PLEASE PUT REWIRE INTO ACID. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! TOO MUCH FUN AND MUSIC WAITING TO BE UNLEASHED. Thanks, Todd
Subject:RE: YES!!! LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: dkistner Date:2/21/2003 4:50:55 PM The thread that will not die!
Subject:RE: YES!!! LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:2/21/2003 5:20:31 PM yes, this thread will not die...at least till acid pro 5. i'm just pissed at the guy that beat me to 100th post. 150th is MINE!!! LOL i can't wait to use acid and reason together with rewire. i just did a tune almost entirely in reason...until i had to deal with the drum pattern arrangement...the reason sequencer...ouch so unintuitive. once again after streaming 15 wav files i was able to arrange the whole song in acid in 1/10th of the time. rewire would have come in handy.
Subject:THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/22/2003 7:31:56 AM THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE.
Subject:RE: THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. Reply by: Maruuk Date:2/22/2003 2:44:38 PM Kudos and props to the many Acid ReWireheads who've come on here to embrace this brilliant standard allowing total creative production freedom for the loyal loopers who refuse to leave the intuitive, fast, and yes, lovable Acid environment. Lest we forget: October 2002 "I read all the posts in here and I don't see anybody asking for ReWire. We haven't made it a priority." --Peter, SOFO employee May we live to dance on the grave of reactionary, repressive tech-think wherever it rears its ugly head!
Subject:RE: THIS THREAD WONT DIE TILL ACID FIVE. Reply by: analoguekid Date:2/23/2003 12:30:18 AM number of posts by user ozzborn 11 coolout 26 ATP 9 Laurence 2 hsonik 1 dkistner 6 Maruuk 12 Waynegee 3 Jacose 6 Jsv 1 MD 4 L25 5 CuzinB 6 booga 1 MyST 2 Phatdrums 1 groovewerx 2 fulani 1 slcrz 3 Shtunot 5 Raskeita 1 tympanic frenzy 1 Sonic PCH 5 n lamartina 1 knowbody 2 Spiral Scratch 1 Ilia 1 decrink 1 Salad 1 tascolas 1 caldvd 1 Number of single posters: 15 Number of double digit posters: 3 total of those posts: 49 (percentage of total +/- 43%) Number of people surprised that Maruuk isn't a double digit boy (infinity) Number of posters with more than 8 posts: (not including double digit contributors) 1 Number of posters <7: 0 Number of posters <6: 0 Number of posters <5: 3 Number of posters <4: 3 Number of posters <3: 1 Number of posters <2: 2 Number of posters <1: 4 Overall total participants: 31 Summary: there are three users essentially frantic to implement rewire. One user essentially frantic to point out the worst case scenarios. there remain a number of casual bystanders that chose to participate (including myself). The ratio of the number of Current Acid users frantic for rewire comprises well less than 1% of the current user base. No study participants offered that rewire was stopping them from purchasing Acid, so the conclusion can be made that rewire in and of itself does not present the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow scenario espoused within this thread. It would appear that much of the Acid user base will continue to support the current products and features that are made available to them. It is also understood that for various reasons users will abandon the products, or move on to another commercially available product. The one item never once mentioned in this thread is the possibility that the Acid Architecture may not support the introduction of rewire, thus calling for a ground up rewrite. Software products don't get recoded for a single feature unless the market has proven in advance that it's financially viable to invest those resources. Not one person in the thread claims to be able to write code either...I was bored enough to put this together, I do not, however, cling desparately to the hope for a single feature so that it will enhance my workflow convenience. I use the tools available to their best ability and my skill. What will you do when you find out that AP 5 doesn't have rewire?
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: djfullshred Date:2/23/2003 12:49:16 AM Hey SOFO & forum peeps, Just because people aren't ranting in a forum doesn't mean that there are not a lot of people that want Rewire. I've been using Acid for a quite a while now, and this is post # 1 for me on this forum. I was not even going to buy Acid because it did not have Rewire, but finally did when they offered it to me for 99 bucks. I upgraded to ver. 4 for VSTi support, but I think Rewire is much more important to the many people using Acid in their recording studios. I still like Acid without Rewire, but never use Acid alone to make music. I end up having to import files back & forth between Acid & Cubase, and think that lack of Rewire support has always been Acid Pro's biggest weakness. I think it's a copout to look at forum statistics as a basis to say that not many people want certain features. Also, those that use Acid without other software programs shouldn't assume that Rewire is some kind of obscure feature that isn't neccesary just because they won't use it. Who knows, you may end up branching out with other software that uses Rewire and then you'll see how useful it is. Sincerely, The silent majority that doesn't post their opinions on forums
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/23/2003 6:36:54 AM i know about 14 REGISTERED users acid and about 9 people who use cracks. some use acid as one of their main apps. some use it partially and render there work into logic,cubase,protools etc. and some barely use it.(this is how i feel about abelton.)out of all these people the majority dont even know abot this forum and those that do dont care. ive been using acid since 2.0 and i didnt start using this forum until the announcement of 4.0.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:2/23/2003 6:53:17 AM djfullshread thanks for the support, the purpose of this thread was to rally awareness and support for the addition of rewire in acid. it turns out it also stirred up a bit of healthy debate. AntiFMStatus' survey of this thread misses the point completely. to say less than 1% of acid users want rewire is utter bullsh*t. anyone that uses more than one app for audio would benefit from rewire. plain and simple. if twenty people care enough to post a "yes, i need rewire" that speaks loudly and represents far more users. how many people said "yes, i need surround in acid" or "yes, i need OPT in acid"? none that i can remember, yet SOFO still dedicated many hard working hours to the implementation of new features that no one really asked for. after this thread there is no question that the user base wants rewire more than any other new feature. the pot of gold analogy is interesting. i've tried to steer clear of any discussion dealing with the financial effect of adding rewire to acid. it's sure to start a flame war on the financial state of SOFO and the future of the applications we know and love. hopefully we can avoid that, but let's look at what happened with acid pro 3. it reached a high level of stability and in many users eyes was almost perfect. so why did any previous users pay to upgrade to acid pro 4.0? the new features... the vsti, asio, and OPT support promised to make acid a more effective app. there wasn't any monetary incentive, any new user who gave SOFO a valid email address got the same deal as a acid pro 3 registered user: 99 bucks. so what are they (whoever is putting out AP 5) going to do for an encore? what can they add to make the now larger user base shell out even more money. interface tweaks? yeah...right vst effects? my wrapper and chainer do that fine, thank you. aside from the asio stability, i like acid pretty much the way it is. i can't think of any other new features out in the audio world that are cool enough to make me pay another 100 bucks for acid. freeze tracks like logic? live sequencing of tracks like ableton? vst system link? just give me rewire. maybe you won't feel my pain until you've streamed 10-20 wav files back and forth just to get an arrangement. rewire is not new technology. it predates vsti. over 15 other audio apps have it. by years' end it should at 20. it works well and makes using multiple apps alot easier. does that make me sound "frantic"? or just someone who is a bit more informed about this feature and feels like sharing the need for rewire with other acid users that may not understand what rewire is. "What will you do when you find out that AP 5 doesn't have rewire?" keep using acid 4 until i can get comfortable with another non-SOFO solution. but i think the acid development team gets the idea.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: stusy Date:2/23/2003 7:01:45 AM I'm to play devil's advocate here, but this kinda thing was the very thing that turned me off on Cake's Sonar: too many doodads. I'll allow maybe a certain amount, but too many options from the platform, i.e., Pro 9, then WDM capability...I mean, tassman, vsti, dxi...I don't know, some of plugins I got anyway, but it's just soooo many things instead of just a platform to work with...not sure what I'm trying to say here, but maybe others can chime in...options are OK, but then some are for a limited time, or only this and that, and pretty soon you find yourself saying, hey, wait a minute, I got this because of compatability, user def...I don't know...sorry, I guess I'm not making sense...gotta get ready for early service here anyway...
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:2/23/2003 1:17:54 PM stusy--The very point of ReWire is to keep apps simple and pure, consistent with their core purpose so they DON'T have to add goofy crap like OPT and badly implemented midi and badly implemented DXi's. You can then connect to another app that has any additional features and capabilities you need. I don't think there's any doubt at this point that if SOFO wasn't in extreme dire straights and understaffed due to lack of funds we'd HAVE ReWire, and little else of these half-baked "doodads". 4.0 is an unfortunate product of a panicked and desperate product management and overworked, overstressed tech staff. Every other major player has, or is about to have, ReWire. What more need be said? For Anti to come in here with these nutty conclusions is insulting to the intelligence of Acid users. He'd have us assume that all the other publishers made BAD decisions by implementing ReWire. But SOFO, though it was laying off staff and in the throes of economic misery and chaos (and has admitted it wants to sell of digital desktop ASAP), SOFO showed benign wisdom far and above their competition and resisted this foolish ReWire crap. Yeah. Right. What this forum doesn't show is the vast majority of users. Including users who abandoned Acid for the 4.0 debacle, and the lack of ReWire. Regular followers of this forum will remember shortly after the intro of 4.0, there was a firestorm of posters who said in effect: I'm outa here! They never came back--why should they? Note--the conference call with the Pres emphasized Vegas, and noted the loop sales were strong. No mention was made of strong Acid sales. Because they're not. Apple knows it has no business unless it can EXPAND their hardware penetration in the marketplace. Standing still with the existing user base won't cut it. SOFO/Acid can't just sit back and rely on the Acid community--it has to reach out and expand business with new users. Users who already have one or more ReWired apps from the competition. If you want to interest those users, you ain't gonna do it with an app that's networking incompatible. Bottom line, 4.0+ and no-ReWire have already driven off a pantload of business. That's why they're not on this forum. Duh. Will there ever BE a 5.0? I hope not. A 5.0 implemented under the current management hostile to retaining any digital consumer products and implemented with lo-morale shortstaff expecting a pink slip any day would likely be as, or more, crappy than 4.0. Yikes! Best bet is a clean rebuild by New Owner with the cash and resources to really take Acid to the next level, not this half-stepping, muddied and muddled conceptualizing of the current skeleton crew. Second best bet is a third-party ReWire, or reFuse-style add-on app allowing AP 3.0g to swing with the real world: Syncing and Co-rendering up a storm with apps that have REAL midi, audio, and DXi's that are fully debugged and work like charms.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: David_Kuznicki Date:2/23/2003 7:28:47 PM --Second best bet is a third-party ReWire, or reFuse-style add-on app allowing AP 3.0g to swing with the real world: Syncing and Co-rendering up a storm with apps that have REAL midi, audio, and DXi's that are fully debugged and work like charms. It pains me to say it, but I'm not going to lie to you-- I think that Maruuk is correct. Acid is, at its core, nothing more than a looping program. Let Acid be Acid, and let ReWire compliment that... I have to admit-- I am NOT by any stretch of the imagination the most advanced user here. I work mostly in the video arena (and for that, I must say, Vegas really IS amazing-- it kicks the sh*t out of our Media 100's at work, and any other 'consumer level' product I've ever used)... but I like having the flexibility to create my 'own' music, if that's what you want to call arranging stock loops. But that being said, I bought Reason a year ago, and I love it. I may not be any damn good with it (trust me, I'm not), but that's beside the point. What DOES frustrate me is that Reason and Acid don't work together at all, and that anything else that I may be considering to fool around with (Sonar & Reaktor, specifically) may or may not work well with Acid. What would I like? I'd like the ability to open Acid & Reason (or whatever program) together, try out new stuff in the context of a song (as opposed to the current 'render, wait & hope' routine that I currently work under), and enjoy immediate gratification. Acid doesn't need bells and whistles. Acid doesn't need surround mixing, half-fleshed out (even by my low standards) midi implimentation, or anything else for that matter. It just needs to loop well. And Rewire, IMHO, can strip Acid back down to its roots, while maintaining long term growth. David.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: stakeoutstudios Date:2/24/2003 3:06:13 AM Just to note, I'm mostly a Vegas (Audio) user - and I'd love to hook up Vegas to ACID using rewire. Jason
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: dkistner Date:2/24/2003 4:14:35 PM What? I go away for a few days and come back to discover this thread is down 15 on the list? Where I can't see it unless I scroll down? The thread that won't die? NO! I can't believe it!
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:2/24/2003 9:42:27 PM It's back, baby! It's back!
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:2/25/2003 3:35:38 PM You guys convinced me! ReWire gets my vote! How could SOFO have blown such an obvious killer feature? Maybe they're saving us for something much better...
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: groovewerx Date:2/25/2003 7:38:45 PM i use acid music 3 to gather and loop material that will be mixed in cubase. it would be great if acid had rewire so i could mix that material directly without having to render then import then mix. so what if the latest version allows me to use dx and some vst fx. i see no reason to spend any more than $30 with sofo until they include rewire. and only after version x.0d. acid music is a nice looping program. i'm sure acid pro is an even nicer looping program, but thats all acid is. sell your pro versions and buy acid music + cubase. the sl version costs less than acid pro.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:2/25/2003 10:54:27 PM LOL! Thats some great advice groovewerx! That way instead of everyone bitching about bugs in acid they can be bitching about bugs in cubase over at cubase.net!!!! LMAO!!!! ;) On a serious note has any of you considered using acids vsti/midi features for its strengths? ie: Playing a motif that compliments your loop piece,edit some minor details with the piano roll editor to said motif,render to new track[ctrl+M],export to soundforge 6,acidize,import to acid as loop and...well you get the picture. [I think you could "chop to new" in the chopper right?] If your getting stuck with your stuff with acid 4 I doubt you'll be any further along with acid 5 with rewire...sorry. Things to think about. Ed. Btw...That other constructive thread about "how rewire should be implemented in acid 5" is getting a bit lonely down there. How about some creative "detailed" ideas so that not one person on this thread gets dissappointed with how sofo does it. In working with acid when that little light bulb on top of your head goes "bling" what do you really wish you could do at that very moment? Besides what has been said already. Or with your own special twist. Have you seen this in any other apps? Just being thorough. Remember that time and resources are not on your side so when sofo finally commits to getting underway on acid 5 it will be too late to complain then. Now is the time to be as creative with your ideas as you'd like...not when its time to fix bugs. Oh ya...my vote for rewiring acid to vegas. Ed.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/26/2003 9:05:44 AM with rewire in acid 5 or 4.5 it garauntees better midi,multiple audio recording,and better interaction with vsti's. use cubase,logic,sonar,protools as host and acid as client. or use acid as your host and reason and project5 as clients. or etc etc etc the point is your allowing much more room for growth, and just more options as producers/musicians
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:2/28/2003 7:32:09 AM keep it on top
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: riley4reason Date:2/28/2003 11:40:32 AM Yes, Rewire as an update not an upgrade. I would upgrade from Pro 3.0 to 4.0 for it, and risk all the bad things I've heard about 4.0. Just gimme rewire, please!
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:3/5/2003 1:17:50 AM THIS THREAD WILL LIVE FOREVER (imagine a mad godlike echoing voice)
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:3/21/2003 4:01:22 PM just for those who haven't read all this...it's back!!! the thread that won't die...until acid pro 5.0 comes out. post your support and show some love.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: buckaroo Date:3/27/2003 2:42:14 PM Yes i have just seen the light also!! Why bother doing the MIDI sequencing side when ACID is the king of timestretching!! Roll on Acid 5.0!! if i rewire this into my Cubase SX, does this mean i can still "Rewire" my Reason 2.0 also? ACID NEEDS REWIRE!!
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: buckaroo Date:3/27/2003 2:50:37 PM ACID 5.0 NEEDS THIS!! can i still use Reason 2.0 rewired into Cubse SX if Acid is Rewired also? ie: more than one program?
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: siberiaguy Date:4/10/2003 1:48:33 AM I was just thinking to myself after wrestling with Ableton Live for the past 4 weeks "I really with ACID could work as a Rewire device"..so I did a Google search and found this thread. Please make this happen!!!
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: retrobeats Date:4/10/2003 2:04:41 AM WEll, as sad as some may find this, Acid Loops and Acid are considered Prosumer products, and it seems that the masses of yesterday where just that, prosumers. Howevever, in the never ending quest for high end studios, commercial houses and ad firms (as well as music libraries) I can tell you first hand that one main reason Acid and the loops (well the loops sometimes get used, but not purchased as much as *.wav, giga,) is the fact that Acid doesn't like to play that well with others. One product upgrade that will "launch" Acid into the Pro arena would be REWIRE. That said, watch for Nuendos 2.0 and Gigastudio 3.0 <---this is going to be amazing (vst...and all) with rewire and SOFO needs to keep up. They should drop all the midi functions and focus on: Rewire VST Instant loop preview (not 1 to 1.5 seconds between loops when "previewing" A more beefed up Video and scoring engine (ala Vegas) Mixer automation with write/read functions (knobs in addition to envelops) Having the above would make Acid one of the hottest plugins around. Leave the Audio/Midi to the others..... Focus on Rewire/VST, and Video engines i.e. create a Video Acid Rewire. You can't edit video in Nuendo/Cubase, so there's the clincher right there. just my .03 cents.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: retrobeats Date:4/10/2003 2:29:05 AM ok, I'm down to 01/17th post (yes I'm reading all the posts here) and it's interesting that when reading about cakewalk and looping, I was thinking to myself,,are these guys talking about Sonars Looping? The only thing I like about it was how fast the preview is (instant)... Then of course, I come to project 5....now it's a whole different ballgame. IMO, Sonar has lost some market share to Cubase SX, while Cubase VST users have gone to Logic. Cubase SX garnished a whole new generation of Cubase users, as the buggy vst PC versions where over. (Version 1.03 still the most stable). But as a MAC and PC user, SX far outshines any VST version, unless it was on a mac. That said, it looks as if this project 5 could be a HUGE project for Cake, if it's not like some of the cheaper cheezy Steinberg plug-ins such as Halion and it's more like REASON but with the ACID perks, and somewhat of a gigastudio sampling (it says proprietary sample compatible - - if it reads giga files ( I have numerous) without conversion, it's a dead-on winner and to be quite honest, I can see why Acid may fade away........I hope not, there are too many excellent sample libraries.... peace retroz
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:4/10/2003 4:38:40 PM Retro... When you say VST do you mean vst plugin support? If so you already have it by downloading a vst-dx wrapper. Fxpansion used to sell one but it got bought out from cakewalk...that company that you don't like too much. But there is another one from directxciter[spelling???]. Do a search and you should find it. There is NO need for sofo to waste development money on this. Rewire...yes. Hardware controller interface...yes. Full VSTi support [meaning multiple outs per vsti,cc controll,vsti envelope automation]...yes. Stable and bug free...priceless ;) Ed.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:4/10/2003 4:48:21 PM Nah, they should put rewire in vegas also and leave the video to vegas. that way you could score with any sequencer running side by side. "Instant loop preview" um...don't we already have that. acid has superior auditioning compared to reason, ableton, or any sequencer. i can highlight a whole folder of loops and acid will preview each one in sync with the current sequence. "vst" kinda long overdue but my vst wrapper works fine, thank you. just add rewire and everything would be perfect.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:4/11/2003 12:35:21 AM oh, guys i forgot here's one more rewire app and it's FREE (for now). http://www.plogue.com/bidule/ wow...a vst/vsti host with rewire for free. you could use this to add vst effects or vsti to reason or ableton live without having to shell out money for a sequencer. it seems like every month some app gets rewire. i guess we get ours late summer/early fall.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: retrobeats Date:4/14/2003 9:12:19 PM For what its worth I just checked out the Ableton Live 2.03, at first it seems not so good, but after playing with it for a while, it can be quite awsome for create drum loops, breaks and breakbeats never mind full mixes. It takes a bit to get useful, but once you do, or rather, last night, when playing an arrangent, when you hit record, everything you do in the field is recorded. It seems pretty cool. It also has rewire. A very big plus.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SonicJG Date:4/25/2003 2:10:52 PM bump.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: dhanjit Date:4/25/2003 4:30:15 PM Are we supposed to deduce something from this official bump?
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SonicJG Date:4/25/2003 4:55:00 PM I've never heard of an "official bump" before. Nope, I just wanted to be #145 and for this thread to be back up to the top of the list. :) Happy Friday! Joel
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:4/25/2003 6:27:16 PM You too Joel. Be safe everybody! Ed.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:4/26/2003 4:15:10 PM shouldn't you guys be working on putting in rewire or at least fixing the vsti volume bug. i can't believe a SOFO employee bumped a thread just to be number 145. at first i thought it really meant something. don't play with our emotions like that. especially when...
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:4/26/2003 4:15:51 PM I'M NUMBER 150!!! HAHAHAHAHAH... GIMME MY REWIRE OR AT LEAST 4.0c WITH THE VSTI VOLUME BUG FIXED.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: plastique Date:5/3/2003 5:36:08 AM yeah , to be able to play/record/control/automate(...) rebirth in acid would be amazing but also i would like to see to be able to automate plugins/fx on midi channels as well .. just on audio makes no sense to me. regards P.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: fabfabfab Date:5/7/2003 4:27:39 AM PLEASE!!!!!!! SONIC FOUNDRY!!! INCLUDE REWIRE IN ACID 5! REWIRE IS THE FUTURE! GIVE A CHANCE TO ACID 5 TO BE THE BEST SOFTWARE EVER MADE! FABFABFAB
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/7/2003 4:54:54 PM It's up to Ken Kutaragi now. He's just crazy enough to do it. In fact, if SOFO's really honest with Sony, and Sony has the smarts to analyze how SOFO went off the tracks with 4.0, they'll clean out all the new garbage code and just marry an optimized 3.0g with ReWire2. Now THERE is the coolest product of all time.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Iacobus Date:5/7/2003 9:14:04 PM You're crazy, Ken. Absolutely. You would actually shun a feature like bus tracks (exclusive only to ACID Pro 4.0)? Man, whatever you're smoking must be good. Iacobus
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/8/2003 11:36:15 AM Ken IS a little crazy, but a brilliant hardware engineer. 4.0+ plus code is buggy as hell. Non-robust, executed under extreme economic duress, and it shows. Clean all that crap out, go back to the rock. Add ReWire. Then, after the entire Universe of apps and features is instantly avaible to Acid users, see if they clamor to shoehorn in a pantload of standalone features which torture Acid to be what it is not. Let Acid be Acid. But teach it the universal language such that it can talk to the exact app you need for your project. Then ascend to co-render heaven. Ain't it great seeing all the guys who screamed "Who needs ReWire?" last Fall gone suddenly quiet? I say "Who needs to be stranded on Non-Connectivity Island?"
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Iacobus Date:5/8/2003 2:59:42 PM I'm not sure you understand what I was saying in my last post. There's more to ACID 4.0 than just the MIDI/VSTi features. Some features new to 4.0 happen to be beneficial to those working with just digital audio, like bus tracks. (Press U while in ACID 4.0 if you don't know what I'm talking about.) (I could go on about how ACID 4.0's audio quality is better than 3.0's, but I digress...) For that "reason" (pun intended), do not assume that going back to 3.0 and adding ReWire would be beneficial to everyone, because it would be beneficial to you only. I would consider it a step backward for me and for others who use ACID 4.0's features. Integrating what 4.0 has now with ReWire would be a step forward. Iacobus
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:5/8/2003 7:21:42 PM ---Ain't it great seeing all the guys who screamed "Who needs ReWire?" last Fall gone suddenly quiet?---Who the hell would that be? If 4.0 weren't so buggy initialy I doubt anybody would be in a rush for rewire. Acid 4.0b is working great here. I just LOVE having DX Automation+ Bus Tracks. For me thats worth the upgrade price right there. 3.0g??? Give me a break. Acid is STILL very much acid. Adding rewire to 3.0g IMHO is just plain stupid. Bring on Acid 5 with rewire. BTW...History lesson... Steinberg /cubase was NEVER in any way able to purchase sofo's A/V line[vegas,acid,etc...] THEY are the ones who got bought out by a VIDEO company[pinnacle] for like $8 million. Get it right. BTW 2...Reason 2.5 has just been released today. Do you think that they released it to compete with cakewalks own Project 5? Hmmm... Acid 5 rewired to Project 5...Hmmm. Ed.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Lawya Date:5/8/2003 11:06:37 PM Bring on Acid Pro 5.0 w/ Rewire I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/9/2003 1:18:26 AM Well, whatever direction they go now, with proper staffing, funding and reasonable time alloted for R&D and QC, we ought to be be getting vastly superior coding out of SOnyFO.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Lawya Date:5/10/2003 12:23:02 PM Anyone heard anything about the timeline for the next Acid Pro update? Let's hope Rewire is on the list of new features added. Reason and Acid Pro= The Perfect DAW (imho) Dj Lawya
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/10/2003 1:37:13 PM Old SOFO basically promised ReWire in 5.0. But knowing Sony, they may skip to 11.0. Project 5 deserves a look. Anybody checked it out?
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:5/10/2003 9:05:09 PM ---But knowing Sony, they may skip to 11.0--- Keep on guesstimating...definitely a good laugh for all. ---Reason and Acid Pro= The Perfect DAW (imho)--- Mine too...Well said! Ed.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Iacobus Date:5/11/2003 6:39:01 PM mu...mu...MUHAHAHAHAHA... You're all probably wondering why I'm laughing like a mad scientist. You pigs are just going to have to wait for the "reason". ;o) Enigmatically, Iacobus
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: ozzborn Date:5/11/2003 8:59:16 PM is MD part of the sonyfo squad! does he know something we dont know ? anyway acid + reason = the perfect daw but acid + reason + 3 uad cards (with direct x drivers) and one t.c. powercore on 1 computer and v-stack on a seperate computer running all your favorite vstis (atmosphere,sampletank with sonic synth,trilogy,absynth,pro 53,moog modular) with a a pulsar card ======= the perfect (virtual)studio
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:5/11/2003 11:04:06 PM Tick Tock Tick Tock... Ed.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/12/2003 1:08:54 AM Hm, mad scientist laugh, Reason involved. Propheads owned by Steinberg. ReWire gets us Reason. So we get ReWire sooner than later, is the implication. On the other hand, what if Sony licensed Acid technology to Propheads as an additional standard to Rex2??? Unlikely. Sounds like fun ahead whatever the cause of temporary insanity.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Dr_Frik Date:5/12/2003 7:15:48 AM REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!....ACID would return to be my fave app.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: David_Kuznicki Date:5/13/2003 12:32:54 AM REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!, REWIRE!....ACID would return to be my fave app. No... tell us what you REALLY think! ;) Seriously though, I'm hard pressed to come up with any reason (yup, pun intended!) why Acid shouldn't be Rewired. It would vastly simplify my work flow (instead rendering loops from Reason, I could have them available as I worked), and that's what it's all about, right? Although Acid is a capable tool (far and away the best & most intuitive looper around), I have to admit, I haven't upgraded to 4.0 Pro. I still use Acid Music 3.0. Why? Because 4.0 doesn't offer me anything (other than surround mixing, which I don't need right now anyway) that I can't do in Reason or Sonar... David.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:5/13/2003 12:37:40 AM --- that I can't do in Reason or Sonar...--- You mean "reason rewired to sonar" right. ;) Ed.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: David_Kuznicki Date:5/13/2003 1:45:34 AM You mean "reason rewired to sonar" right. ;) Right. Sorry, it's REALLY late (almost 2:45 am) and I'm still at work... As much as I hate to say it-- give me Sonar, Reason (and sorry to anyone who's a Cakewalk fan-- I am NOT particularly impressed by Project5) and a good VSTi wrapper, and there's nothing they can't do. Now, give me Sonar, Reason & ACID W/ REWIRE... and the sky's the limit! David.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:5/13/2003 9:58:17 AM ---Reason involved. Propheads owned by Steinberg. ReWire gets us Reason--- Nope. From: Tomas Johansson Propellerhead Tech Support Nope, the connection with Steinberg was that when we first started to produce products, Steinberg were distributing them (and they did put their name on the boxes), but Propellerhead are and have always been privately owned. A few years ago, we took over the distribution of our own products ourselves. ---end Just keeping the facts straight for you. Ed.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/14/2003 11:48:45 AM A lot of guys who left the fold when everybody else got "Wired" will return once SOnyFO corrects SOFO's egregious error of omission. Assuming they do. Only fly in the ointment is that obviously, mass-market Sony did not buy in so they could compete in brutal lo-margin audio app wars vs. highly advanced players with far more feature-laden products. So they're not really going to be motivated to spend R&D money on Acid in it's current iteration long-term. Our only hope is that they make it at least competitive before they gut the technology for some goofy integrated karaoke make-your-own dance Pachinko kiosk for Sushi bars in Shinjuku. Cuz I don't wanna have to fly to Japan everytime I need to paint some tracks and get a groove on.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Lawya Date:5/15/2003 5:41:24 PM Are the developers still reading the posts in this forum or what? Can we get a bit of info on the next update? I want to know if Rewire will be added or not. Dj Lawya
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: pwppch Date:5/15/2003 6:34:39 PM Yes we read these forums. 4.0c is very close. Peter
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Lawya Date:5/15/2003 7:05:11 PM Ok Peter...that's one question answered :O) How about the one about the Rewire issue? btw...thx for replying so quickly Dj Lawya
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: pwppch Date:5/15/2003 7:16:53 PM Can't comment on any specifics. Wont be a long wait. Peter
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: dkistner Date:5/17/2003 4:36:13 PM 177 just sounded like a cool number to me...and so glad to hear 4.0c is close.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: fresnog Date:5/17/2003 10:42:18 PM Diane, Diane, Diane....... 177 might seem like heaven, But 178 is really great! 179 will put you last in line, Then 180 comes along, And will say I am wrong. Somebody stop me Fresnog
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coldc Date:5/19/2003 12:27:27 PM Yes please. (to rewire)
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: salad Date:5/26/2003 10:20:57 AM ...Couldn't just leave this at 179, so I'm doing a 180 here. I'm ready for rewire! Is this for real....adding a feature to an update? No way! Way??? Was it this PETITION that is responsible........That's awesome! Trying to assign a different sound card to 2 open app's here, and sometimes it works. I won't have to do that with rewire? I'll be able to use SX for MIDI / VSTi's? I don't have Reason.....yet!
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: David_Kuznicki Date:5/26/2003 11:13:17 AM --I don't have Reason.....yet! But you'll love it if you buy it... I haven't met anyone yet who hasn't been hooked after trying it. The learning curve is a little steep, but it's worth the effort. Trust me. David.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/26/2003 2:59:29 PM David--Yeah, there are a number of things in Reason, especially coming from Acid, that catch you up at first because they're not real intuitive. But once you figure them out, and you start rendering out your first Reason tunes--whoa. Reason just plain SOUNDS fantastic. And it is the perfect co-rendering companion to Acid. Kutaragi-san: Make it so!
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Iacobus Date:5/26/2003 11:02:33 PM Reason isn't actually all that bad to figure out (there's lots to customize), especially when using it as a ReWire slave...be sure to check out Reason's "operation manual" (specifically, beginning on p. 48) for full details... mu...mu...MUHAHAHAHA! Iacobus
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: David_Kuznicki Date:5/26/2003 11:54:34 PM --Reason isn't actually all that bad to figure out (there's lots to customize), You'd be surprised, especially if you come from NO sort of musical background! It took me a few intermittent months to make anything remotely useable, but again, that's due to my to inexperience. Sure, I could've picked an easier program to start with... but really, what's the point? --especially when using it as a ReWire slave... Indeed. I've been using it with Sonar for a little while without any hiccups. David.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Iacobus Date:5/27/2003 12:56:57 PM Actually, I should've mentioned Reason is rather easy to get into if you're familiar with such an aspect (like synths, sequencers and other hardware). If you're a newbie to the whole thing, you're definitely going to go through a learning curve. Iacobus
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: DKeenum Date:5/27/2003 1:14:30 PM I going to download the Reason demo tonight. You guys may have another convert on you hands. 3.0c and Reason sounds interesting.
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Lawya Date:5/27/2003 3:15:45 PM heh...3.0c? Download the latest version of Acid while you're at it bro. You're a few versions behind it seems...lol Dj Lawya
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:5/27/2003 3:28:04 PM Isn't it illegal to sign a petition more than once? And if we get a couple thousand more posts in here, can get Grey Davis recalled, too?
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: SonicJG Date:5/28/2003 2:45:33 PM Can we delete this thread now??? :) I know people are going to say they want ACID as a client. Don't bother asking. We know. Thanks, Joel
Subject:RE: LET'S START A PETITION FOR REWIRE!!! Reply by: coolout Date:5/28/2003 7:13:53 PM as the guy who started this thread, i've been layin' low on the boards lately especially when folks accused me of bumping this thread and posting too much. but look at what the power of healthy discussion and good old fashion (in a new web-based kinda way) protest can do. WE HAVE REWIRE without a having to pay for a whole new version of acid pro. to the acid development team: thanks for rewire, thanks for the bug fixes, and making the midi inputs global. most of all, thank you for putting up with us and keep up the good work to my fellow reason users: WHOO HOO!!! let's make some hits!!! if every thing goes smooth (i haven't installed it yet) IMHO acid pro 4.0 is clearly better than 3.0 and damn near perfect. so yes, at 190 posts this thread is done, dead, and finished. please no more posts to this thread.

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