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Subject:P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Posted by: SonicSounds
Date:2/14/2003 9:39:41 AM
I just recently upgraded my computer to the following specs: P4 2.0ghz Asus P4PE motherboard 512MB of DDR PC2700 Radeon Pro 9000 (64MB) Audiophile 2496 Original 5400RPM ATA drive and a 7200RPM slave. After installing everything last night, I noticed that Acid still bogs down on certain songs. True, my CPU usage is down (average of 40% instead of 80%) but I still am not getting the performance I expected. My question is: Does anybody else have a problem with larger songs stuttering? It's not too bad with the native windows drivers but I can't use ASIO for playback on bigger songs because of the erratic stuttering. This has always been the case, even with my old PC specs. I thought this would've remedied the situation. Can poorly written plugins over-tax the CPU? If anybody is having similar experiences please let me know. IMO this setup seems like it should be able to handle most anything that's thrown at it...but it's not. |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: aress
Date:2/14/2003 10:39:13 AM
have you done what is advised on http://www.musicxp.net / ? have you updated all your plugins to the most recent version? have you tried rendering the tracks with plugins on, and then play them back with your plugins printed??? try that too.... sounds like your system should work great.... |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: MyST
Date:2/14/2003 10:52:45 AM
http://www.m-audio.com/support/driversearch.php Above is the link to the beta drivers page at M-Audio. If you look at the second one(I think) it mentions a fix specifically for an ASIO problem in Acid. Maybe that's it. M |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:2/14/2003 11:59:04 AM
I've gotten the most recent drivers for the card. As for rendering to wav, that was the main reason for upgrading....I was tired of having to render my tracks with fx to wavs. I want to be able to run a good deal of fx in real time and not have to render them to wav. |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: stusy
Date:2/14/2003 1:29:27 PM
Add another 512...I think it runs about $60 or $80 now... |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: MyST
Date:2/14/2003 1:40:11 PM
Sorry, I disagree. There is NO WAY 512Megs of DDR isn't enough. It's gotta be something else. Not trying to beat this to death, but did you check to see if your driver for the M-Audio was the beta one released specifically for the Acid fix? M |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:2/14/2003 2:02:17 PM
You said you installed everything, but did you start clean (by reformatting and reinstalling Windows)? Was this a new machine with Windows pre-installed, or did you build it (or have it built) yourself? ASIO is very touchy. You can't have too little a latency yet not too high either. The trick is to find the sweet spot. HTH, Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:2/14/2003 2:04:09 PM
Yes, it is. It's the most recent one (feb. release date I think). I agree that 512 is more than plenty of RAM. Also, what kind of latency should I be getting with my ASIO driver. It automatically set itself to 8ms at 44.1 but I thought I'd get better than that. I forced it to 5ms and haven't had trouble although I haven't really gotten down to test it thoroughly yet. Aside from Acid, the PC seems a lot quicker. I'm going to install Sonar 2.0 on it. My friend says he can have loads of fx and tracks going in Sonar and it won't bog down (running same CPU) unless you really force it to. That's why I'm thinking it's something in Acid (plugins, engine, etc) that's causing it. Also, I'd think that having an independent AGP graphics card would take a lot of stress off of the CPU but I guess this isn't the case here. |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: coolout
Date:2/14/2003 2:55:19 PM
i feel your pain. i have a 1.8 P4, 512mb ddr-sdram, 40gig 7200rpm boot,80gig 7200rpm audio HD. no disrespect to any of the hard working guys in SOFO, but it's not your cpu...it's acid. the ASIO implementation is just not as mature as other apps. i can only use asio for an occasional vsti, but other than that it's all sound mapper baby. when i use logic, orion, or reason, asio is a "set once and forget" thing no matter how many tracks, effects, or synths i use. in acid i can't get acceptable ASIO latency and use more that 15 tracks without some kind of snap, crackle, or pop. yet i can easily run over 50 tracks with a crap load of effects with sound mapper (0.22 seconds playback buffer) and the most i've seen my cpu go up to was about 75%. the sonic foundry ASIO driver is at version 1.0 and it shows. try using another app and you'll see the difference. |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:2/14/2003 5:20:35 PM
ASIO is definitely very archaic in Acid, but I do get slowdown occasionally with the regular windows drivers. I'm going to try Sonar and see how well it handles that. |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:2/14/2003 5:37:38 PM
Could it be the "infamous" denormal bug? |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:2/14/2003 9:49:23 PM
I think you're right, I've been over at www.sound-on-sound.com's forum and have been researching this "denormal" thing. It sounds like there's no clean way around it. |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: coolout
Date:2/14/2003 10:48:02 PM
nah, if it was a denormal you would get it only when using time-based effects. we already attacked the denormal issue in another thread, just search for it. or just go to http://www.digitalfishphones.com/main.php?item=2&subItem=6 and download the denormal elemnator now. |
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Subject:RE: ...still not that fast!!
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:2/15/2003 10:38:58 AM
P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR wow...that should be a great setup. perhaps you need to tune windows and/or upgrade your soundcard... |
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Subject:RE: ...still not that fast!!
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:2/15/2003 1:05:31 PM
I'm still holding onto the fact that the problem lies in the software somewhere. The soundcard is fine (actually great), the video card is plenty capable. I'll just have to see how other programs run on it. If they bog down, then I'll start to work on the components. |
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Subject:RE: ...still not that fast!!
Reply by: suprox
Date:2/19/2003 1:48:39 AM
Try copying your acid file along with all the audio it uses to a diffrent harddrive and open it from there. Then check if it still chokes up. Im also running a p4pe and am experiencieng the problems you are describing. |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: Gordian
Date:2/19/2003 5:01:34 AM
So true... Gordian |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: Jacose
Date:2/20/2003 9:27:25 AM
myst you are right... 1 gig is good, but 512 MB should do everything he needs it to do... |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: spesimen
Date:2/20/2003 3:31:04 PM
i'm running p4 2.4, asus p4pe and 512ram, and also get stutters, only in ASIO mode. works great in mme though. i thought it was specific to my soundcard but apparently not. like the other folks, i also can use reason + cubase sx with asio with zero problems.. cheers |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: bilongo69
Date:2/22/2003 3:04:27 AM
I have a P4PE as well. I think it's an issue with ACID and the Pentium 4 because my friend runs an Athalon 1 gig, and it works fine. Sonic Foundry needs to look into the interface of the software. I get this stuttering even using the sound mapper. ( 2x 7200 RPM UDMA/100 512 MB RAM 2.8 GIG CPU P4PE ASUS ) I might consider SONAR until ACID fixes their bug. Although I like ACID better as far as ease of use and timestretching sound quality. |
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Subject:RE: ...still not that fast!!
Reply by: DataCowboy
Date:2/23/2003 12:13:10 AM
Have you set your functioning temp directories for Acid to the second (7200 RPM) drive? Even if you haven't, it's probably not a big enough thing to cause the difficulties you have, but thought I'd mention it anyway to cover the bases. Hexadecimal www.freesiedmusic.com |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: midihead
Date:2/23/2003 12:58:35 AM
I've said it more than one time...but it looks like people are reading this thread so I'll jump in again. The problem mostly lies with Acid, folks. Specifically version 4. If you have a Midiman/M-Audio product, be it the Delta, Midisport, etc. you're in for even more grief. Firstly, I've built 2 hi performance machines with Athlon XP and P4...both have the same result. Getting rid of all M-Audio products (great gear, bad drivers) solved SOME of my problems...mostly the audio stuttering, and latency issues. I had an M-Audio Delta66 and a Midisport 2x2. One of the tech support guys at M-Audio confirmed that their drivers are not yet ready for Acid...and are "still buggy"...yes, even the BETA ones, hence the name. However, aside from driver problems other strange things happen in Acid that Sonic Foundry tech support can testify to, but not explain. One being the amount of memory Acid sucks up. When first launched it may start out using 32k of memory...but slowly that number will raise to even 100k. When this happens, Acid crashes, fatal errors appear, sometimes the entire computer will shut itself down. I've run other programs such as Cubase SX with TONS of VSTI's loaded...even The Grand, and got KILLER performance and stability. I get great, solid results with Reason as well. Sorry SoFo...I love you guys to death...hell I even put "made with Acid" on my last CD...but after all the tests I've done, I'm finding that there needs to be some serious tweaking to get this app stable. It's NOT just the ASIO situation because I've had similar problems with the Classic Windows Driver. FYI, as far as system specs are concerned...mine are the following: P4 1.9 Intel motherboard 1 gig Ram Ultra SCSI II Seagate Cheetah 10k RPM hard drive for recording Seagate Barracuda Ultra ATA/100 hard drive for OS and apps NVIDIA G-Force II MX Edirol UM-2 USB midi interface Aardvark Direct Pro LX6 Optimized for audio, all latest drivers...isolated for audio use only (got a separate PC for internet, games, etc.) Cheerz, Midihead www.midihead.com |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: djfullshred
Date:2/23/2003 1:00:11 AM
I just want to chime in that my 2.0G P4/Asus P4-T, 512Mb Ram system works fine with Acid. I have some songs with +30 simultanious tracks & no problems. I don't know if this is your problem, but I suggest using a SCSI adaptor & hard drive if you have many simultanious audio tracks. Also as others have said make sure you have the "Acid-fix" drivers from M-Audio. |
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Subject:RE: P4 2ghz, 512 MB DDR...still not that fast!!
Reply by: midihead
Date:2/23/2003 10:09:11 AM
Dude, Did you see my system specs in my last post? Also, did you read what M-Audio had to say about the "Acid fix" drivers in my last post? The reason Acid is solid for you and not others is a mystery. It must be an conflict issue that no one has pinpointed. I assure you that I've built a couple of killer audio machines...taking extra precautions to taylor for audio and nothing else. I'm not alone...you're just lucky, that's all. |
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Subject:RE: ...still not that fast!!
Reply by: bilongo69
Date:2/25/2003 1:34:10 AM
I've tried that, and still get the underuns with the audio. I did do some trouble shooting over the weekend. I loaded the same project on a PIII 1 GIG running windows Me and it worked fine. My conclusion is: There is a conflict with Acid, windows nt ( 200/xp ), and the Pentium processor. |
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Subject:RE: ...still not that fast!!
Reply by: spesimen
Date:2/25/2003 3:01:00 PM
>>think it's an issue with ACID and the Pentium 4 because my >>friend runs an Athalon 1 gig, and it works fine. hmm, i had the same problems with ASIO drivers on my athlon machine also. i can easily run dozens of tracks and lots of plugins too with MME so i'm not sure if it's related to power or speed. The glitching is very subtle under ASIO anyway - mostly occurs when the app is playing in loop mode and hits the end of the loop..beatmapped, looped, one shot tracks all do it.. hmm.. |
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Subject:RE: ...still not that fast!!
Reply by: bilongo69
Date:2/25/2003 9:19:05 PM
My glitching is pretty bad. I had the same problem when I was running my p 3 800 mhtz. I thought doing the upgrade would fix it, but no dice. running p 4 2.8 gig. 2 7200 rpm drives 512 ram ddr pc2700. With those kind of specs, it should run without problems, but I guess they need to put out a patch that makes it run better with p4 processors. See, this is the problem with Intel. They put out these fast ass processor, but they don't give the software manufacturers a chance to catch up. Bilongo 69 |
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Subject:RE: ...still not that fast!!
Reply by: DataCowboy
Date:2/25/2003 11:15:43 PM
My P4's run Acid fine. One's a full P4 with RDRAM and the other's a P4-M with DDR, and neither is as fast as yours. I've tried Acid with DS2416, EMI 2|6, and Midiman Quattro without too many problems. Now that you've made those changes, I'd conclude the opposite; it's something that stayed the same that is the issue. Hexadecimal www.freesidemusic.com |
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Subject:RE: ...still not that fast!!
Reply by: spesimen
Date:3/5/2003 10:54:22 AM
for you folks who have it running fine, is that with MME or ASIO drivers? |