Subject:People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Posted by: liquid

Date:2/4/2003 9:09:04 AM

For those of you who remember the stuttering problems I was having with my brand new Intel p4 last week, I'm thrilled to announce that I just got and tested my new dual 2000 AMD system and it works so good it's not even funny. This thing is a beast! My computer feels so rock solid. I can chop up and edit my 24 bit song like slicing up pizza! I havn't even bothered to tune windows yet, and it works better than perfect. No stuttering, no delays, no flaking out and crashing. People, I tried everything, and the only possible reason I was havning the problmes I was havning was bc of Intel, so for those of you who are havnig the same problems I was (cpu spikes, intel overdrive because of small calculations), try to buy an amd chip and kiss your problems good bye!
thanks for all your help everyone!

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: vanblah

Date:2/4/2003 10:48:54 AM

What was the chipset on the P4? What motherboard?

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: tympanicfrenzy

Date:2/4/2003 11:21:58 AM

my system is pretty solid and I'm using a 1.6 intel p4, only time it stutters or overloads is in logic when I have a multiple plugins on each track, (5 or more tracks with 3 or more plugins on each) usally when a vst like absynth is open with several others.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:2/4/2003 12:18:23 PM

Man am I read your post I almost went out to buy the new AMD MP 2600 that just came out!!!! {sigh} I REALLY have to upgrade but I made a promise to myself that I was going to hold out untill aprill 22...The day amd's "opteron/athlon 64" cpu's come out. This way I'll put even more cash away so that when I do get it I'll "hook it up" with all the trimmings[maxed out ram,dual monitor card,extra monitor,4 HD's,etc...]

Ed.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:2/4/2003 1:52:00 PM

Man, I read your post and I almost crapped myself laughing. No P4 problems here. Ever. Here's a tip - There's no need to start an AMD/Intel flame war with idiotic thread titles like this. I can almost guarantee your issues are the result of your obvious lack of hardware knowledge and matching components properly.

Oh - have fun trying to keep that thing cool.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: stusy

Date:2/4/2003 2:10:19 PM

OK...ONE MORE TIME...wait to buy AMDcpu/mobo until the latter part of this year; that's when I've said countless times when to jump in...talk to your local techie, or the best buy boys or whatever...I had a P3/833MHz for awhile and loved it, but AMD is cheaper, and for my mobo I could go up to 2 or 2.1, but I'll not see much performance gain coming from my XP 1.7 I'm told, so get the "next new mobo" that comes out, and start at the bottom and flip er up when the price is right...know what I mean Vern...? ain't got such deep pockets as some of you so gotta be smarter, and for me, AMD is smarter, and healthy enuf for my sofo apps and me; less bloody splats on the wall next to me...

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:2/4/2003 2:22:54 PM

Oh - have fun trying to keep that thing cool---Got my liquid nitrogen standing by! ;)

Ed.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: vanblah

Date:2/4/2003 2:36:20 PM

So are you going to setup Windows 2000 Datacenter to take advantage of the 64-bit arch? I personally can't wait for Sonic Foundry (or whomever buys the AV side) to come out with ACID/Sound Forge/Vegas 64 ...

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:2/4/2003 4:53:22 PM

Cuzin B is absolutely right - lack of knowledge

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: coolout

Date:2/5/2003 1:43:52 PM

not to mention intel can be cheaper if you know where to look.

i paid about $400 for my 1.8 ghz p4 last year.

brand new in the box. i've never ran out of juice on a project.

i'm sure liquid paid at least double or triple for a dual 2ghz AMD.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:2/5/2003 7:24:04 PM

Not once did this guy mention what kind of motherboard he had going with that P4. And the soundcard? That is another story altogether.

Again - P4 2.53GHZ with an ASUS mobo = sonic nirvana.

Cuzin B

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: bgc

Date:2/6/2003 12:35:25 PM

Don't mean to add to the intrigue, but I just switched to an AMD system that is much, much more stable than my dual P3 and P4 systems. Don't know why, but my next machine will be an AMD system.
bgc

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Jacose

Date:2/6/2003 1:27:33 PM

P4... onyl a 1.7 but does everything I need it to do , and fast. 11ms latency for multiple vsti's.....

pretty good here, never a problem...oh yeah the PCs 1 year and 6 months old BTW... ;) ;)

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: liquid

Date:2/6/2003 6:58:44 PM

Wow, I didn’t realize that my opinion would stir the pot the way it did. I don’t post in forums very often, and I guess I failed to realize that dissing Intel might get some panties in a bunch….
Sorry girls….
Anyway, for those of you who don’t know what I’m talking about, and actually what information instead of just empty assumptions about my knowledge and abilities, might want to read this article
http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/oct02/articles/pcnotes1002.asp
It turns out that the problem wasn’t only Intel, it was also a conflict between my usb burner, and my ua-700 sound card (for those of you who aren’t omnipotent, that’s also a usb device). Also, for those of you claiming to have no problems, I’m happy for you. But I suspect that you’re not doing 50-60 tracks using 24 bit either? I never had problems before and I was using a lap top (Intel), until the day I dabbled into 24 bit. I was taken back by the difference in quality and I just couldn’t go back to 16 bit, and it was time for a new computer anyway, so I went with the Intel p4. Which as you all know, didn’t work out at all. Now my dual AMD has been humming away for almost a week, without one crash, hitch or bug. NOT ONE PROBLEM. Let me say that again for those of you who might not have read that right….Not one single problem, crash, bug, stutter NOTHING! Just a computer that seems rock solid, that does what I want, when I want.
Anyway, I’m happy making music now, I’ll let the rest of you defend Intel while my AMD’S keep me smiling. If anyone out there wants more info on a system that works very well, let me know. A
PS…I paid $250 Canadian more for dual AMD’S….hehehe
:-X

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: suprox

Date:2/7/2003 2:08:00 AM

Alright all , I got a p4 2.4 Ghz right now . And Ive been str8 fidlin with everything trying to get it to work right. I "upgraded" from an athlon 1.2 which worked gravy only to run into all these problems. Last week I already got my Rma to send the P4 back to where it came from. All you P4 defenders ask your self this; when it comes to pure efficiency , Why does the P4 require 500 extra Mhz to get the same amount of work done? why? Im really asking this because I want to know. Im sure the engineers dont want to waste clock cycles on purpose. Maybe intel should divert all those millions spent on TV ads into making the chip work right. Undeniable.

Also , please in detail let us know about your new system, Chipset, mobo brand Etc.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:2/7/2003 7:16:20 AM

liquid,

Glad you are making music and things are working out for ya. While I would like to think that the SF forums had a little more class than the rest of the BS out there, you were able to prove me wrong with an idiotic thread title that just drips with a hassle factor. I mean what's your point? It's clear that you don't care about staying on topic about Acid...you would rather openly complain about your gear and then slag a component because your knowledge is limited. Now after your explanation it is quite clear that you do not know how to match components and ended up having problems.

And 50-60 tracks? What the hell for? In Acid? Please...

suprox - "Why does the P4 require 500 extra Mhz to get the same amount of work done? why? Im really asking this because I want to know. Im sure the engineers dont want to waste clock cycles on purpose. Maybe intel should divert all those millions spent on TV ads into making the chip work right. Undeniable."

Totally deniable - tons of us are using Intel just fine. Clock cycles? Who gives a large crap? When I am comping a vocal or assembling a mix - I don't put on my black rimmed glasses with masking tape on the bridge, my white lab coat and have my slide rule out measuring the top of my CPU...I am making music. I am getting work done!!! CPU...disks...Acid...are just the tools...that's all...give the "science" of it a rest and get back to making some music...that is what you bought Acid for - right?

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: liquid

Date:2/7/2003 9:00:07 AM

Ok, let me just clear this up here......This post was intended for all the people that helped me figure out what was wrong with my system..... I'm not just here to blast Intel, but it just so happens that intel was the problem. I just made the post to let the people who helped me know that as they suggested, my problem was with Intel and not my configuration....So if I offended anyone with my low class comments, I am truly sorry, and I hope that people like cuzinb can forgive me for my idiotic thread title....:-( Can we all be friends again now?

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:2/7/2003 12:52:57 PM

Cool. You are forgiven. Now rock on.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: suprox

Date:2/7/2003 5:07:05 PM

-cuzinb
righton man, well when I comp a vocal trak I throw on my black rimmed glasses with masking tape on the bridge, my white lab coat, for real. Give the science a rest? wtf.? what are you talking about man. This is science. /"Forum"/ Pure information for the benefit of all. You can discard it freely. Your computer works fine, and thats great. Some of us however are having problems and are attempting to solve them in any way possible. I shared an observation about the Cpu which may or may not give great insight into happier computering for all. Theres no reason for you to tell people what not to talk about. You think I want to be troubleshooting my computer? Definetly not. Id love to be comping a vocal track, but I cant cause my computer chokes up. Ive got no choice, its science time.
"Clock cycles? Who gives a large crap?" Its funny tho man, Id like to see what you would be saying if you were the one with a studdering playback problem.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:2/7/2003 5:18:26 PM

suprox,

This is science? WTF are you talking about. I bought Acid to record my music.

You come here in guns a blazing because you don't like how Intel assigns it's clock cycles? This is a software forum...stick to the plan.

And just WTF does any of your drivel have to do with Acid? I could see if there was some kind of SF Acid problem in here to help out with but you and Liquid just seem to have something up your ass over Intel chips for some freakin' reason...again - what does any of that have to do with ACID?

I guarantee this is a motherboard issue for both of you. Too many other people are working just fine for it to be anything else.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: suprox

Date:2/7/2003 5:52:01 PM

I came here to fix my problem, somehow I found other peeps with the same problem which was traced back to the cpu in question. the p4.

You should think a little more before you post. You may realize that all your doing is limiting and dissing peoples persuit of a working Acid system like the one you got.

My Acid Recording system doesnt work good. You could have used all that time to give me a little advice instead of trying to sound hard.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:2/7/2003 6:20:19 PM

Hey man - I am here to help. Always have been....but when I see thread titles like this...the whole things screams "Moron".

If you have a problem, lets get on with it. Popping and clicking? You can search these forums and find a million reason why. Everyone of course blames ACID cause it couldn't possibly be your inferior equipment. In 99% of these cases, popping and clicking is the fault of badly matched gear. And I am not saying the P4 is perfect...I am saying that properly matched for music - it works great and many of us are enjoying that right now.

I see that you have a ASUS board...so where/how did you decide on that particular board? Did someone suggest it...did ya buy it sight unseen... or did you do your homework on the board...reason I ask is - that board has problems....most likely same reason you are having problems.

So please don't waste anyone's time with your long ass assumptions that Intel is wasting clock cycles and shit like that. The only cycles that are being wasted are yours for posting like a clown.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: suprox

Date:2/7/2003 6:29:39 PM

What problems is the board known to have?
its the 845pe chipset.

You should really consider the clock cycles thing tho, in terms of a macro perspective on this whole issue and a possibility where the p4 may be the problem.

Resummarize problem-
Playback studers, at times playback pauses in the same spot in the loop. Files open slow at times And Acid freezes for 4-5 seconds when "building peaks" in certain files. During the peak building and the playback studdering the cpu goes to 0%.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: liquid

Date:2/7/2003 6:40:20 PM

Yo....cuzinb.....I don't get it, this forum is for people who use Acid, but I don't see where it says that we're not allowed to talk about something else...especially something else that is related to Acid. And how do you know the problems some of us are havning aren't caused by acid? And even if we were talking about something else, whats it to you? Why don't you just stick to the other posts that interest you, and stop swearing and jumping up and down that we're not all following your rules. Why can't you just move on...get over it....stop posting insults and just get on with what ever it is that you do....I'm sure you're a nice guy, I've seen helpful post on your behalf before, but where are you going with this? Is it your mission to convince everyone that some of us are morons? I don't see why you even bothered to read a post with such a idiotic subject....? Get over it!!!!! I read some of your old posts, about how sf should bring back rewire, can you explain how that relates to Acid? Ok, so you're not perfect.....I forgive you, now go do something useful instead of bashing us!

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:2/7/2003 7:20:48 PM

LMAO!!!

It's nice being outside of an arguement for once. LOL.

Ed. ;)

Btw...If anybody would like some great info on intel/amd systems go to...

http://www.creativecow.net/index.php

And check their "Windows Hardware and software" forum. Plus the "AMD Computers" forum. ALL of them are very cool so go check them out and come back here with some answers. You'll probably speak to a guy by name of Earle Foote. He's the dude behind pcnirvana too. Best of luck to you all.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:2/8/2003 12:22:06 AM

liquid.

"Yo....cuzinb.....I don't get it, this forum is for people who use Acid"

So did I. So what's your problem?

Hey - Don't forget forget your classic thread title:

"People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!"

That REALLY implies an interesting conversation about SF Acid.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: DataCowboy

Date:2/8/2003 2:21:10 AM

I don't think any of us Intel users (though I do have two AMDs) really begrudge someone choosing AMD over Intel because they find it works better for them (the bottom line is always to use what works for you), but some of your arguments as to why an AMD would be superior aren't actually points in AMD's favor.

The problem with your statement "Why does the P4 require 500 extra Mhz to get the same amount of work done?" is that the MHz measure doesn't actually have the meaning you are assigning to it.

MHz isn't like gas in a car, it's not consumed or burned to make power. It's also not like a displacement measurement (5.0L, 3.2L, etc) for engines. You seem imply that having a 500MHz higher rating on the chip to perform a similar amount of work is wasteful, when it's really nothing of the sort. If it was we'd all be using Macs because they get more work done per MHz than either AMD or Intel.

MHz in this case is more like RPM. You can design an engine that will generate its peak of 200HP at 5000RPM or you can design on that generates its peak of 200HP at 4500RPM. The decision where to have the peak in the RPM curve (as I understand it) has more to do with the purpose of the engine and tuning its timing and transmission appropriately.

So, using MHz as a rating of power or output is only reliable when the architectures of processors are similar, as they had been previously but aren't now.

I hope this makes sense. If not, maybe someone has a better analogy or weblink that can.

Hexadecimal
www.freesidemusic.com

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: suprox

Date:2/8/2003 4:55:34 AM

Hello again,

-DataCowboy , burned fuel and displacement are fully unrelated to this, I cant disagree there. Your example with RPMs however, is not entirely parallel. While the architecture is diffrent, in the end both processors must conform to standardized instruction sets which allow the software to run. While the Athlon performs 9 operations ( not instructions ) per cycle and the P4 performs 6 operations , we still dont know wether or not those operations are usefull, i.e. taking 5 operations to do whats done inside the p4 in 2 operations. However, when we observe a specific useful task being executed within a certain amount of time ( benchmarks ) we can see these "peaks" ( like in your example ) and see how much Usefull Output the processor has completed in a given amount of time. In the end all we can do to really find out wether one machine is superior for your Tasks (aside from just getting insider info from the programmers hint hint) Is to run both of them side by side and physically chart that one of them has the "peaks" which are more favorable for Your kind of Usefull Output ( In this case hitting Acid ).
Scope this link too.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,49014,00.asp

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Mozzer

Date:2/8/2003 3:27:43 PM

Actually this has made very amusing reading. The people in here with working systems whether they be AMD or Intel be happy with what you have got but - and it is a big but - there are some "facts" in this thread that are totally misinformed.

With regards the megahertz myth and Apple being more powerful see this test:

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/05_may/features/cw_aeshowdown.htm

You will se various tests using a Mac Altivec optimsed Adobe application - After Effects - and if you know about the Altivec extensions it is like the Power PC version of something like SSE2. So given that fact you would think that the dual Mac setup would smoke the PC which was a dual AMD rig. Well no, it didn't work out like you'd think. The PC came in consistently quicker sometimes by a few seconds on some of the quicker tasks but in video and audio this matters, but on some of the tasks by a lot longer - indeed: "Virtual Set
Here's the most render-intensive graphic in our test. Using still photographs, an entire 3D environment is created within After Effects. The project involves constructing a room with walls and a ceiling, and then placing various graphics of pipes and gauges into the 3D space. Then, a camera is moved through the space, giving a 3D point of view. Again the PC left the Mac in the dust, taking only 7:39 to render the segment, with the Mac trailing at nearly 12 minutes to finish rendering the exact same sequence."

Now that is astounding!!! This was from a Mac-centric website too!

Now as to the problems with P4's and audio. It is already well docummented on sites that deal with VST & VSTi plugins like www.kvr-vst.com for instance that the P4 suffers badly from what is known as denomalisation problems. It is not the only cpu to have this problem but it does show the wrost effects of it. If you don't know what a denormal problem is:

http://phonophunk.phreakin.com/p4denormal.html#precisequality

Now reading that page you might dismiss the problem as nothing at all to do with the P4, which on the face of it might be a semi-reasonable conclusion. But if you search the forums on KVR you will see a trail of woe with developers having to apply kludges to their plugins to stop the problems on the P4 and users dispairing of their systems. There have been a LOT of people with these problems not just a few with badly setup mismatched hardware. It is because of changes to how the cpu works internally that made problems worse on the P4 than ever before. Given that until now if you have just been using Acid 3 and Direct X plugins and that maybe your not utilising as many plugins as somebody might in a VST host then you might not have come across the effects of the problem. *But* it does exist and now that Acid 4 supports VSTi's it is now an issue for Acid users too. The Athlon suffers from this problem to a much much lesser extent by the way- it is not a show stopper for AMD users at all.

I currently use an Athlon XP 2200 with a gig of DDR in a cheap Sis based Asus mobo - the A7S333 - and this setup rocks as a DAW. I can run an obscene amount of plugins in Cubase SX. As a test the other night I had 16 Native Instruments Pro-53's loaded all playing different patches incl pads (which are known to be cpu hogs), plus as send effects 3 Waves RVerb, 2 different delays (Ohmboyz & Ultrafunk), along with a ring modulator, a chorus and a flanger (all Steinbergs own in SX). My PC plodded along on about 65% cpu usage and didn't choke at all. This is running on a Delta 1010 with the latest drivers and 11ms latency at 24bit 44.1khz. Now I know people might say my rig can do this and that bit this was a real world test. I record and remix on this rig on a regular basis to a professional standard. I am a VERY happy AMD user - for bang for buck it cannot be beaten. If you want to go for a top speed P4 system be aware that to get the best performance you need an RDram based rig and that will pump up the costs VERY significantly indeed. I have just completed a remix for the American based recording artist Abigail on her new single and I had 37 tracks of 24 bit audio running at final mixdown with plugins all over it and the Athlon sat at around 50% all the time and threw up no problems whatsoever.

I'm a very happy bunny here and would say that depending on what you want to do the P4 is a good choice. But for fpu which is needed for the maths calculations even the fastest P4 doesn't offer the raw maths power that the higher clocked Athlons do. That is also what counts when you want to run lots of plugins like people would in a DAW application like SX or Nuendo. Acid as good as it is does not really - even in the latest version - offer the extensive routing capabilities of these applications and so you might never come upon some of the problems outlined above because your not pushing your rigs to their limits.

Long post but I felt some of these things needed pointing out.

Best wishes,

Moz

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Laurence

Date:2/10/2003 11:30:35 PM

I've got a P4 system that I am pretty thrilled with. I don't mind a little colorful conversation about processors though. My system is a P4 2.4 in a Shuttle SB-51G. You can check it out at shuttleonline.com. They have Athlon versions as well including a new model with dual video outs! The reason I went with a P4 was mainly because I felt it would run cooler in a small format case. The Shuttle systems have really nice cooling systems that are really quiet at low speeds and quite a lot louder at high speeds. I thought that a P4 would be likely to run in the cooler slower fan speed more than an Athlon model would, and be a little more friendly to recording vocals nearby because of this. I avoided faster P4s for the same reason (that and the substancial price difference).

As far as the performance goes, I've run into two plugins with denormal problems. One of these was slight, and the other sent the CPU meter into overload any time it processed silence. One thing I've noticed is that most plugins have had denormal problems, but that the latest versions are fine. Anyone using out of date Warez versions of some of these plugs will probably have problems still however, as will legitamate users who haven't downloaded the most recent versions of all their plugins. With all denormal-free plugins, I can't seem to drive the CPU meter past 50% no matter how hard I try. With just one denormal problem plugin I can drive the CPU into overload quite easily though.

Like Liquid, I also use the UA-700. One really cool thing I put into my computer is a 4 controller / 4 port USB 1.1 card. That avoids a lot of USB bandwidth sharing issues. I use my UA-700 at the lowest latency setting (around 3ms or so) with no problems whatsoever with this setup. Again for me, the difference in processors is largely academic. My CPU meter goes between 5 and 50 cpu usage depending on the complexity of my projects. Lowering it to 40 or 30% max wouldn't really improve my life much. On the other hand, more background noise because the cooling fan is running at the faster speed would really kind of suck ;)

Laurence Kingston

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: suprox

Date:2/10/2003 11:35:54 PM

put your computer in the closet, Thats what I do. Lead the cables out, voila. silence.

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: liquid

Date:2/11/2003 9:44:25 AM

Laurance,
As for as the noise, all I seem to have to do is enact the low cut filter on the vocal section of the ua-700 and it takes away all the hum of the fans. I also put my computer in the closet, which helps. I usually take out all the lows in the vocals until about 400. I think this is a little excessive, but my vocals sound very boxy in those frequencies. I think it's because of the room I'm in, and I guess also because some of the noise from the computer and cars that go by my street or whatever.
In some of my previous posts, some of you were surprised that I used so many tracks in Acid. The reason is that once I've built up my bed tracks (drums, guitars and synth loops) I use Acid as a multi-track recorder. Actually, I really think acid works well for this. I find that having every file on a separate track helps keep things clear. When I used to use logic, and comp multiple tracks onto one track, it was always such a balancing act. Within acid it's hard to get confused because everything just stays on its own track. And at the very end I might comp some of the vocals together. But I find that having things on different tracks makes the final mix more interesting since I don't make all the track exactly the same, the song takes on a life of it's own in the final mix.
I might have to start another post to get this answered, but I'm wondering if anyone knows how to adjust the grid in acid using keyboard short cuts? Is that possible? If it isn't, it really should be because I hate always having to access menus to change the grid which I often need to do. I know that by pressing f8 you can turn it off, but there must be a way to toggle between the different settings?
Also, does anyone know of a way of deleting files that have been recorded that aren't being used? I know I can use the save as function and copy only the media that is being used, but I'd like to just delete the files that are no longer being used without having to copy the whole project somewhere?
Also, does anyone know if acid is planning on releasing any more bug fixes before they tackle version 5?
peace

Subject:RE: People wake up! Intel sucks!!!!

Reply by: Polaris20

Date:2/11/2003 12:10:23 PM

And I thought the Mac vs. Windows argument was dumb. This takes the cake. I have an AMD desktop and an Intel notebook. Does that make me schizo?