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Subject:isolating voices
Posted by: lonneke
Date:1/28/2003 9:19:59 PM
i've been tryin to isolate voices from songs, i know, i've read enough posts of various forums saying its impossible, but i don't really believe that. Maybe you can't mix paste channels and stuff, but surely theres some way. I don't know what most of the filters and stuff in soundforge do yet, but surely theres people more experienced then me out here. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:1/28/2003 9:52:01 PM
It's the people who are more experienced than you who will tell you it's impossible. Don't waste your time trying. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: MJhig
Date:1/28/2003 10:04:15 PM
Not true Chien, it can be done... Get the phone numbers of the voices, call them one at a time. MJ P.S. If you want Karaoke then why don't you buy the Karaoke CD's? They are pretty reasonable from what I understand, cover many songs and those musicians need to eat too. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:1/29/2003 7:16:49 AM
Good plan MJ ;) I have to digress here and relate something that always amuses me about the word "karaoke". Back when i was the sound tech for a local theatre group, i got home one evening after work to find about 15 messages on my answering machine. Apparently the choreographer was sick and couldn't speak above a whisper. Everyone was in a tizzy trying to figure out how to make sure he'd be heard by the dancers at rehearsal that night. Everyone had questions and suggestions, most of which included having people bring in their karaoke machines so he could use the mic. One person adamantly declared that she had the best "core - ee -ah - kee" machine on the planet. Oh my! I got to the theatre that evening and found a pile of karaoke machines sitting there on the stage. Of course, the loudest one wasn't much better than a pocket AM radio and definately wouldn't have been heard above the orchestra. My solution? I handed the choreographer a spare handheld wireless mic and fed it into the stage monitors. May i say "duh"? I suppose i shouldn't because the owner of the core-ee-ah-kee machine was so offended that i didn't use it that she took it home and never brought it back! Oh well. ;) |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: vanblah
Date:1/29/2003 12:09:51 PM
lonneke - why don't you believe it? The science is there and it is accurate. Check this article: http://www.techtv.com/callforhelp/howto/story/0,24330,3402280,00.html Doug |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:1/29/2003 6:27:06 PM
I've beaten this one to death time and time again in this forum. I've described how it CAN be done, and what circumstances have to be met for it to work and I also described WHY in 99% of the cases it can't be done. It's pure laws of physics....they haven't changed. So until you can change the laws of physics and win a nobel prize in doing so.....you just keep believing what you want to believe. Us more knowledgable folks will move on with more important things to worry about. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: captn_spalding
Date:1/30/2003 7:59:56 AM
Thank you red! I get so tired of this question! not only on this forum but at parties, restraunts, the post office ... well you get the picture. Perhaps Sonic Foundry can create a forum just for this topic and all the wann-a-be alchemists can jabber at each other there! ...spalding |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: Ted_H
Date:1/30/2003 10:41:56 AM
I thought that putting it in the FAQ section would help, but I was wrong! Oh well ;-) Ted |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: inspector
Date:1/30/2003 10:57:07 AM
The problem is not the question. The problem is that loneke does not accept the answer. I believe that anyone has a right to ask any question that they want. Most of the time this question is asked by someone that is new to audio. I think that it is arrogant of loneke to not accept answers from the experts here. I think it is equally arrogant for experts to get upset over questions that they are tired of hearing. It is probably equally arrogant of me to think what I have to say will make a difference. Suggestion: If you are tired of the question...don't read or respond to it. When I was new to cd-recording I probably asked some worn out questions as well. I didn't even know how to search for topics and didn't know a FAQ from the moon. These questions could be an opportunity to help someone learn how to search for topics, check FAQs, etc. These are help forums not scorn forums. Asking if you can remove vocals from the mix is a reasonable question for someone not in the know. How many of the experts here, at some point in their careers have wondered the same thing? respectfully, Steve |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: captn_spalding
Date:1/30/2003 12:47:32 PM
Ok. I'll probably regret this in the morning, but here goes: "If you are tired of the question...don't read or respond to it." Actually I do skip these questions. But I do keep track of posts by certain contributors 'cause they frequently have informative things to say. Two of those appeared on this question. My post was a thank you to one of them for his passion about his profession and refusal to suffer fools. I don't have the energy or time to fight the fight for our art (and I see it more as an art than a science) as he does. "I didn't even know how to search for topics and didn't know a FAQ from the moon." I find it hard to beleive that someone can use a computer, find a website, locate the forums and figure out how to post a question and not see the search box in the upper right hand corner and figure out how to use it! Are you saying that someone who can't use that search feaure is going to succesfully use a product like Sound Forge!? And yes I believe that lazy, self centered people who post such questions indicating that they have not actually tried anything to solve their problem do open them selves up to scorn. "How many of the experts here, at some point in their careers have wondered the same thing?" I dare say we bear the scars of thousands of hours of sleepless nights, failed experiments and utter fustration in freezing/sweltering studios and control rooms, cold pizza and flat coca-cola, ringing ears and bleary eyes, missed deadlines and thankless clients in our attempts to answer these and other far more interesting questions. And I wouldn't trade those hours and my experise gained for all the FAQ's and Forums on the web. In short, there are no short cuts. If you are going to do something well, you have to put in the time. If you aren't willing to work at your craft, then go watch some more reruns on TV. And now I'm going back to the shadows. ...spalding |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: Dave2
Date:1/30/2003 8:46:01 PM
One-thing regular posters/audio experts could do when some posts which most of us now know are a really dumb question- is explain how to find the FAQ’S and leave it at that. Forget the flaming and encourage further use of this forum as a learning tool. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: ATP
Date:1/31/2003 5:25:12 AM
------ i know, i've read enough posts of various forums saying its impossible, but i don't really believe that. ------ then why post here? you want us to say now : "oh you're right, we were full of crap the last time someone asked this question. actually it can be done very easily". i agree with Red, believe what you will, but please don't insult our intelligence. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: inspector
Date:1/31/2003 7:21:38 AM
I think the original poster deserves whatever he gets...I was speaking of newcommers and trying to user my own inexperience at one point as an example. respectfully, Steve |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: philsayer
Date:1/31/2003 10:44:22 AM
Under certain circumstances, it actually CAN be done: 1. Some very early stereo tracks were mixed in such a way that ALL the vocals were on one channel, and ALL the instruments in the other. Remove the vocal channel, and you're left with the instrumental, though often with a strange "echo" of the vocal. A lot of UK EMI releases were like this, notably The Hollies and Beatles. (Don't get me started on the question of whether they should ever have been released in stereo - George Martin has strong feelings on it - he said emphatically that they shouldn't... but that's another story. 2. Provided the stereo recording has the vocal track dead centre, you can phase-reverse the track, giving a sum-and-difference effect whereby the centre of the stereo is cancelled out. Again, it won't be perfect, but it's surprisingly good. The drawback is that the resultant (mono) music file will sound rather thin, with the bass sharply attenuated - it can, to a degree, be tweaked back into shape. As far as I know, those are the only two ways it can be done, and they are only a partial solution. Hope that helps! |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: lonneke
Date:2/1/2003 1:18:16 PM
well thanx for all the flaming, you obviously totally missed what i was gettin at. Oh yea did anybody see karoke in me post, cause i didn't. Its more arrogant to sit there and say because you don't know how to do something it can't be done. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: lonneke
Date:2/1/2003 1:19:34 PM
lol a simple question and yet somehow its insulting your intelligence |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:2/1/2003 6:10:31 PM
lonneke, i could see your original question as referring to several different things. You might be asking about: - removing vocals from a song leaving only instrumentals (this is the most common form of this question, also the thing that people are trying to do with copying, inverting, and paste/mixing the left & right tracks, and what leads many people to suggest karaoke) - removing the instrumentals and leaving only the voices (inverse of the above) - separating each vocal part into a different file - emphasizing one particular voice over the others In all these cases, my original answer still stands. Except for a very few unusual cases these are not practical. Once the various parts have been mixed together they can't be separated. If you are referring to something different please explain what it is you're trying to accomplish. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:2/1/2003 9:11:48 PM
I didn't flame. :) Anyway, Kirsten, think of it all like a cake mix and the vocals are the eggs. Once you beat those eggs into the mix, there isn't any way you're going to completely get those eggs back out. It's the same way when you add vocals to a stereo mix. The frequency ranges of the human voice are from ~90 Hz to ~1.1 kHz. This means that the human voice shares frequency ranges of other instruments such as guitar (typically ~80 Hz to ~800 Hz). If you isolate/remove the vocals in a stereo mix, chances are you'll also isolate/remove the frequencies of other instruments such as guitar. (Whew. I think I've got it right.) We've only two channels to work with here, of which all the frequencies of the instruments must share. The only dyed-in-the-wool solution? Get the original project, if possible. In a typical studio environment, tracks are recorded separately from one another. What appears to sound like a complete mix is actually separate tracks playing alongside one another. (Hence the term, "multitrack.") It is not until the mastering stage that everything is mixed down to a two channel, stereo mix. I hope this helps. Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: vanblah
Date:2/1/2003 9:51:32 PM
lonneke - I asked "why don't you believe that it can't be done?" I would really like to know why you don't believe it. Is it because you think that no one here knows what they are doing or what they are talking about? Doug |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: Dave2
Date:2/1/2003 10:00:30 PM
What’s really arrogant Ionneke is to insist that separating a modern CD track can be separated into separate channels in spite of the expert advice you have received in this forum. At this point the ball is in your court.—You figure how to make this happen—then enlighten the masses. Put Up Or Shut Up. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: lonneke
Date:2/2/2003 8:27:25 AM
dave2, maybe you should stfu, say something constructive or nothing at all. Expert advice i have recieved in this forum? only 1 or 2 of these posts were civil. And how i am supposed to know what answers you have given to previous people who've asked this question. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: MyST
Date:2/2/2003 9:32:02 AM
http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/audio/vremover.htm OK, just so we can finish with this thread... Go to the above website to find the best solution for what you're looking for. Be warned however, that the results are far from professional, and leave alot of bleed-through. That's why people here are less than anxious to recommend it. Please keep in mind that this is software and a forum site that caters to Pros, and people who aspire to work like Pros. We cannot recommend any method of doing what you want to do, simply because we know the result will be crap. If you asked this question on other forums that deal more with editing audio on a less professional level, you might get AnalogX highly recommended. You might even find it does exactly what you want(and I hope you do). Alot of the forum members here do this (edit audio) for a living, and you can bet that if they say it can't be done well, backed by scientific facts, then it can't be done well. Period. So, check out AnalogX, and I hope it does what you want. But on a professional level, it can't be done. M |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: vanblah
Date:2/2/2003 4:20:14 PM
lonneke - you can find out what others have said on this subject by searching the forums. Look for "removing vocals" or "vocal removal" etc. Doug |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: philsayer
Date:2/3/2003 11:42:35 AM
Just a thought - the method I recommended you to try in my earlier post will only help you to remove (or at least reduce the level of) voices, subject to the limitations I stated, and confirmed by another post, which refers to "bleed through." (Exactly right.) I notice you refer to "isolating" voices. If by that you actually want to hear the vocal WITHOUT any backing, then I have to agree it can't be done - unless it's one of those wonderful old "ping pong stereo" 60s tracks I referred to where ALL the vocal is on one channel and ALL the instruments on the other. I liked the analogy of the eggs in the cake mix - you could also view what you're trying to do in a non-vegtarian setting. It's the equivalent of handing a half-ton of beefburgers to a butcher and asking him to turn it into a cow. I can see you'ree rattled by the tone of some posts, and I can see why - but in most, if not all cases, it isn't that nobody knows HOW to do it, it's that they're sufficiently knowledgeable to know, not only THAT it can't be done, but exactly WHY it can't be done. |
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Subject:RE: isolating voices
Reply by: Engineer
Date:2/4/2003 11:41:50 PM
No it is not possible to take out a voice from a mono/stereo file. The closest I ever came to it in radio years ago was to take a stereo (doesnt work in mono) track turn one track out of fase mix it back with the other track in mono, you also tend to loose several instruments though. |
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Subject:Remove Vocal 29
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:12/16/2004 7:52:50 PM
<Bump> :-)~ |