Subject:OT, or for loop makers, maybe not

Posted by: dkistner

Date:2/2/2003 4:17:26 PM

Paul Whalley has surfaced. I've used his Tangent for years to generate musical ideas in midi, and some of my best compositions started in Tangent. I got an email from Paul today about his new freeware (beta) Poodles and Flan. I was so surprised, because I thought he'd probably been alien-abducted, never to be heard from again! :)

I haven't installed it yet, but if anybody is interested, here's the link to the software (which also generates midi files):

Poodles and Flan

Diane

Subject:RE: OT, or for loop makers, maybe not

Reply by: skot

Date:2/3/2003 4:56:04 PM

I dont get this poodle "n" flan gizmo? what's it all about?

Subject:RE: OT, or for loop makers, maybe not

Reply by: dkistner

Date:2/4/2003 4:24:38 AM

Poodles and Flan generates music according to either default parameters or user-defined ones. It allows for saving compositions to a midi file, which you can then go into and either use as-is or snip portions from for working into your own compositions. Tangent, which came out a good long time ago, did that too, but it had limitations. Like you couldn't specify the octave in a user-defined melody string. P&F lets you do that. It may just be because I've gotten used to the way Tangent works, but it seems pretty intuitive to use.

I think of both of these programs as musical idea generators. I've only played around with P&F a little bit...just letting it automatically generate one composition after the other as I work on something else, saving only if I hear something I might use...and not getting into the parameters I can change too much yet. But what it's generating is very interesting...tending toward the avant garde, and perhaps (at least without changing parameters) best used for getting ambient lines and textures. What I'm hearing has very surprising shifts and turns that are quite pleasing. I expect (as you can with Tangent) I could get into it and make it make whatever kind of music I want it to make. And it's free!

Diane

P.S. I don't know if P&F has the same feature, but Tangent has something called a beat string you can define. You set up the durations of notes that are to become your repetitive rhythm, and it will generate around that beat string. The pitch of those notes will be generated according to the parameters you set up--or by the program if it's running fairly automatically. I've gotten some interesting material just generating bass lines this way.

Subject:RE: OT, or for loop makers, maybe not

Reply by: salad

Date:2/4/2003 4:23:32 PM

Will there be a "Poodles and Flan Pro"?

Well, it didn't crash, and....it is free, so I guess it's a keeper.

Very interesting! A bit fatiguing to the ear after awhile. Frequent breaks recommended....that's the "MS GS Wavetable Synth affect", I think.
Frequent exporting to something like...Cubase is a must.

Thanks!
still laughing at the name though, and I can't seem to get it to synch up with.....Aodix : )

Subject:RE: OT, or for loop makers, maybe not

Reply by: dkistner

Date:2/5/2003 9:19:10 AM

Salad, Paul's asking for input from people on how to improve the program, and I just sent him some suggestions myself. Like I wish you could specify a midi-out port so you could route it via a VMR to VSampler, Chainer, or a sequencer. And an autosave feature, so you can capture compositions while you're at the grocery store without having to listen to them and make decisions until you can get the midi files into something that allows you to listen to it with decent instruments.

It wouldn't hurt to let him know what you're interested in...and give him some feedback about any crashes or weird behavior, as this is a beta. But muck around in it some before making suggestions; it may already be able to do it.

I think the "Poodles and Flan" name may be Paul's effort not to take all this music-making stuff so seriously and approach it from a child-like exploratory angle. I think being TOO serious about making music can actually constrain one's ability to make it.

Diane

Subject:RE: OT, or for loop makers, maybe not

Reply by: dkistner

Date:2/5/2003 10:52:13 AM

Oh, cool, cool, cool! I just figured out how to do something neat.

I went into Windows Control Panel and set my default output device to Sonic Foundry's VMR Midi 1. Then I loaded Chainer, made sure it was set for the same VMR midi port, and stacked up SampleTank XL inside of it. (I could have used any VSTis, but this was the most expedient way of testing.)

Now I'm playing PnF with the Chainer output, and I can change the instruments in Chainer and hear it! And it sounds very, very, very much better than the default wavetable stuff! And if I hear something I like, I can just turn on record quickly in Chainer and capture it...or, even better, save the composition (which gives me a midi file, too) that I can pull up in my sequencer or scoring program or even Acid for more refinement...and I can save the Chainer instrument preset and be able to play back exactly what I heard the first time or, if I want to, make instrument changes.

Oh, this (the Chainer/VMR/default Windows device trick) does open up so many possibilities for recording out loop material! :)

Now I just need to determine what the best (relatively inexpensive) VSTi GM-based soundfont player is (because I've got a Mia and no soundfont playing capability) that will work in Chainer and I will be SO SET! I am so excited, I'm about to break into a zillion twinkling little pieces! Maybe now I can get back to having some fun making music instead of pulling all my hair out, one strand at a time.

Diane

Subject:RE: OT, or for loop makers, maybe not

Reply by: salad

Date:2/5/2003 2:40:39 PM

Nice job figuring that out! I was wondering if assigning different sound sets or VSTi's was possible. That's cool!
Sounds like you might be able to write the tutorials for PnF : )
I've installed Chainer, but have been so busy.....WILL check that out soon.

Will spend some more time with PnF. Let us know if you get it to churn out an 8 Pack for Acid Planet ; )
I've got to get up to Guitar Center for a "richer" version of Sample Tank. The free version is pretty impressive.

Pat

Subject:RE: OT, or for loop makers, maybe not

Reply by: dkistner

Date:2/6/2003 4:58:08 AM

That was the only drawback of buying Computer Music Magazine (with SampleTank Free on it): I just had to have SampleTank XL "right now." And it was money I didn't have.

Be sure to check IK Multimedia's home page for any promotional offers they may have running at the time. I got Axe and TranceGrid free when I bought SampleTank XL. I would have preferred to wait for a Symphony Strings promo, but I couldn't wait.

I'm beginning to sense a coherent DAW is beginning to come together before my very eyes, when before what I had was a bunch of expensive stuff I couldn't make work together. I thought I was going to have to ditch Acid, for example, in favor of something else, but now I'm seeing how seamlessly it's going to fit into my workflow. It's starting to look like I've pretty much got what I need. Chainer did that for me.