Subject:Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Posted by: Trizzay

Date:1/19/2003 6:23:15 AM

Hello, I'm doing a vido project which involves a lot of voice-overs. I went out and bought a Behringer B-1 Condenser Studio Microphone, which so far sounds great. I get a great range of sound and good bass and no popping.

The mic is connected to my computer through a small pre-amp I bought for $45 on eBay. Here's what it looks like: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2500311784

Now my problems:
First of all if I try to connect the mic to the "Mic" input on my sound card, I get an incredible amount of loud hissing in the background. I've tried tons of different settings with recording levels and nothing gets rid of the hissing sound.

What I did next was connect the mic to the "Line-In" input on my sound card. Most of the hissing is gone but after I record a few voice-overs and Normalize, I still get some hissing in the background. It's 10 times better than using the mic input, but the hissing is still there and very noticeable.

Well my next step was to get Noise Reduction 2.0 and I gave that a try, and although I can get rid of 90% of the hissing, I am left with a voice-over that is too soft and unclear for my tastes.

NOW MY QUESTIONS!
Has anyone had any experience with condenser mics? Should I try getting a better pre-amp or should I find myself a good dynamic mic instead? If I get a better pre-amp, what features do I need to look for in it? Or are there any plugins I don't know about that will help?

Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: drbam

Date:1/19/2003 8:45:54 AM

Your setup is pretty straight forward. I'm assuming that you have the mic pre's phantom switch engaged (otherwise you wouldn't get any signal at all-typically). You didn't say which soundcard you using? Also, there's a chance that there could be a problem with the mic or the pre. Have you tried other mics going directly into your soundcard? If possible, test your mic & pre on someone else's system (one at a time and together). Do some trouble shooting like this and see what you discover. Good luck.

drbam

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:1/19/2003 10:54:15 AM

The Advanced Properties for many sound card mic inputs allow for a -20db pad. This option would be the first thing to try.

I know nothing about your little preamp, but most hiss occurs in the very first mic gain stage. Try turning that control down and adjusting your level down the line. -6db peaks into the card are actually pretty good and you can normalize later.

Also, turn down all inputs and level controls you are not using both on the preamp AND the sound card. "Live" line or CD audio inputs are a big source of noise.

If you get another preamp, get a good one. Even my little Behringer mixer has some noise in the first stage. Mackies are cleaner.

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:1/19/2003 1:40:41 PM

Just because your sound card says "Mic IN", doesn't mean you automatically plug a microphone into it to record from a microphone. "Mic In" and "Line In" refer to the level of the signal the sound card is looking for. Mic level signals are around 100mV, where line level signal are usually between 1-2 volts, therefore at least 10 times higher than mic level signals. Your pre-amp is essentially taking in "Mic level" signal and amplifying it to "Line Level" on the output. Also, as previously stated a "condeser" microphone requires "Phantom Power" or "+48 volts" to work, your sound cards "Mic In" does not have this "Phantom Power" feature. It's looking for a "dynamic" microphone, which does not require phantom power to work. With your setup you are better off to plug the output of the mic pre-amp into the "Line In" input of your soud card, and you have to make sure the "Phamtom Power" or "+48volt" switch on the Preamp is active, to make the condenser mic work. Than after all that, if you have a noisy sound card, that noise will still be present, therefore make sure the level coming from the pre-amp is high as possible without distorting the signal. This will keep the signal/noise ratio at it's highest possible scenario. Therefore you hear more signal and less noise. If you're still hearing noisy signals, that means you probably have a soundblaster sound card, which are not optimal for recording. You will need to look into sound cards, by RME, Echo, or M-audio which will have lower noise floors and spefically designed for recording.

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: Flybnj

Date:1/19/2003 3:25:14 PM

I have a Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum and use a dynamic Mic straight into the Mic Input and have 0 troubles nor do i have any hissing noise. Guess I got lucky.

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: Cold

Date:1/19/2003 5:17:51 PM

First figure out where your noise is coming from. The pre has a headphone out use it and see if the bulk of your noise is coming from the pre, the mic, background noise etc. The thing about condensers is they tend to pick up more room noise than dynamics,if the room you record in is noisy so will be your recordings. The pre you bought also probably will have high self noise, so if possible use your mic fairly close to your mouth for voice overs, 2-4 inches, with a pop filter if nescessary. Pull your pre away from your tower, at least a few feet. Use as short a good quality mic cable as possible don't coil it up around power cords... use headphones to get a good, loud, low noise sygnal out of your pre, then worry about the card etc. If your carefull you should not have to use noise reduction.
Steve S

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: Trizzay

Date:1/20/2003 3:03:08 AM

Wow, thanks for all the great input guys. Rednroll - thanks for the great tips about the "line" and "mic" outs. Cold - you're right, my Pre-amp was sitting on my tower and it did help to move them away from the computers.

The sound card I'm using is just your typical Soundblaster Live. However I've been looking into this and was wondering if you guys thought it was worth it to upgrade to one of these:
http://www.soundblaster.com/products/audigy2_platinum_ex/

I'm leaning towards getting a good dynamic mic, but the sound quality on the Berringer is just awesome. I just can't stand that hiss!

Thanks guys,
Ed

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: drbam

Date:1/20/2003 8:54:41 AM

All things being considered, the quality of your mic pre and your sound card are actually more important than the mic. If you're considering upgrading your card and plan on doing anything even remotely serious with audio recording, then by all means move beyond the SB stuff and get something that really sounds like it should. You can get entry level (2 in/out) pro cards for around $170 (Echo, M-Audio, etc). I would encourage you to replace your soundcard first and see how your system sounds then. If you still get any hiss, then make sure your mic and pre are not faulty by testing them in another system. Your next upgrade after the card should be a better mic pre. Again, for your purposes, there are a lot of decent options for under $200 and many around the $100 range used on ebay. There's a ton of info on the web to help you make a good decision, and of course the folks on these forums can offer a lot of suggestions. ;-)

drbam

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: doctorfish

Date:1/20/2003 6:31:54 PM

I'm not sure if this adds to the noise but the mics I saw on the Behringer
website all require a 48 volt phantom power supply while your preamp lists having
only 36 volt phantom power. Maybe someone who else can comment on this.

As far as soundcards go, one of mine is an M-Audio Audiophile 2496. It's only
2 ni 2 out (seems like you don't need any more) but it's very quiet and sounds
great.

Dave

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: Trizzay

Date:1/20/2003 10:37:18 PM

Never even heard of the Echo and M-Audio sound cards! Glad to know they are available out there. I'm definitely going to pick one up and give it a go because the Behringer Mic sounds too good to replace with Dynamic Mic.

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:1/21/2003 10:13:36 AM

"I'm not sure if this adds to the noise but the mics I saw on the Behringer
website all require a 48 volt phantom power supply while your preamp lists having
only 36 volt phantom power."

This should not effect sound quality. 48volts is overkill for what the microphone actually needs. I've determined in the past, that you can get by with as little as 24volts for the phantom power.

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: fishtank

Date:1/21/2003 7:09:27 PM

I believe DBX made a low-cost mic processor a few years ago that only supplied around 15 volts or so for phantom power. I remember seeing somewhere that something like 90% or more of the phantom powered condenser mics out there would work at voltages this low.

As far as your soundcard goes, I would recommend the M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 as it is not too expensive and have heard good things about it. The SoundBlaster stuff is more in the *toy* realm - don't waste you money on a new one.

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: doctorfish

Date:1/22/2003 7:00:00 PM

Thanks for the info fish and red. I'd wondered about that when seeing different
voltages listed for phantom power supply.

Dave

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:1/22/2003 7:13:17 PM

The hiss may be typical of that soundcard. Also check the *minimum* phantom power voltage for your mic, and what the preamp puts out.

Also, if you get a better soundcard than a Soundblaster, you may be less impressed with your Behringer mic ;-)

geoff

Subject:RE: Help using Behringer Condenser Studio Mic

Reply by: philsayer

Date:1/28/2003 5:12:55 AM

I've read all the responses carefully, and would put my money on the mixer. Before I upgraded to Creative's Audigy 2 Platinum (very pleased with it, btw) I used an SB 5 - it was okay - not wonderful, but okay, and certainly no hiss problem as you describe.

I use a similar mike - Neumann TLM 103 (48v condenser) for voiceover work, into a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer - fairly cheap (£500 in the UK) - but excellent spec and reliability.

One possible source of hiss - is your sound recording configuration in Windows set correctly for this application? Control Panel> Sounds And Audio Devices> Audio> Sound recording Volume (phew) This opens a mixer dialog box. Make sure only the relevant input is checked - the inputs shown depend on the card. In my case it's Analog Mix. Put the fader about three quarters of the way up as a start point, then try a recording. If it over- or under- modulates, change it. (Use the record box in SF and check the Monitor box to see levels.)

This may help, in conjunction with the other info offered here. Without meaning to sound patronising, I'm impressed at the level of expertise available from fellow-users, and wouldn't argue with any of the other posts!

As you seem to be starting from scratch, one more hint - unlike analogue tape, digital recording is intolerant of over-modding. A decent tape would accept 8dB or more before it saturated, and under-modding was The Big Sin because of the unwanted noise (hiss) generated by the tape.

The reverse applies with digital recording - anything above 0dB will sound nasty, as it goes into square-wave, so leave plenty of headroom, and remember - the meters may not catch transient peaks. Use SF's noise gate to remove backround noise and, if you wish, breath noise. I set mine at -32dB, and it gives stunning results.

Final thought - was the e-Bay mixer new or used? If used, it might be worth considering why it was being sold - could be faulty, maybe! If new, throw it back if the fault replicates on other systems...

Hope that helps - good luck.