Subject:rendering midi files?

Posted by: makodog

Date:1/13/2003 6:08:34 PM

Should be easy. I can record tracks fine and play back as well. However i can't render the file so that i can import it to other editing software programs. Once I save my work I can't seem to get the rendering tab under file to highlight so i change the file to something that other programs can recognize. I save the the work as an acid file and that is about all i can do. I can access different tracks that are midi that are included in the acid file but I can't convert the acid file to a wav. file or even a midi file.

If someone has any thought on this matter it would be greatly appriciated. That is the only thing holding me up with this program. Is there something i missed along the way? I can import a wav. file into my project and the redering tab work or is useable. Once I delete the track ( because i really don't want it there ) I am back where I started, being unable to change the file format.

Thanks to anyone how might have a suggestion.

Mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: dkistner

Date:1/13/2003 6:30:22 PM

I bought Acid specifically so I could record to midi. Then I found out you can't really record to midi. (So much for demos...I couldn't test it ahead of time.) At least you can't do it without having external hardware hooked up, which I don't. Maybe this has changed since last I tried to do it, but I don't think so.

I wanted to have midi loops, compose with them in Acid just like you do with audio, then "record out" the score. No can do. So if that's what you were thinking of, quit losing your mind. Or maybe you were thinking of recording audio to midi? That's not going to work, either.

Maybe some of the midi gurus here can tell us both of a workaround, and maybe 4.0b does something that 4.0 didn't. But I got it straight from SoFo last fall when I bought 4.0 that I couldn't do what I wanted to do (record out arranged midi loops to a larger midi score).

Diane

P.S., after I re-read your message, maybe I totally misunderstood what you were saying. You mean you can't render a file to wave at all? From File/Render As? Are you using the demo? If so, that would explain it because, if I recall correctly, the demo won't let you render anything, midi or otherwise, and I think you can only save the projects themselves--so you can use them after you buy the program, of course! ;)

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/13/2003 7:08:43 PM

I am able to render other files that i import but not the ones that i create. It is kind of frustrating. I pick up the software from a friend so i think it is the full version but i could be wrong. I can get the redering tab to come up but not with stuff that i record and save.

I will keep trying.

Thanks for your reply

mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:1/13/2003 7:20:12 PM

There is no Save project as MIDI functionality in ACID 4.0.

To save your MIDI loops as MIDI files, you must you the MIDI track properties Save or Save As buttons. This will save your recorded MIDI files to

1. The file that was associated to the MIDI track
2. A new file that you can name and that will become the file associated to the MIDI track.

Peter

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/13/2003 7:29:28 PM

When i have been recording i have been going to the save as tab in the file drop down field. am I suppose to save it in the track propertys tab? I haven't even tried to see if there is an option to do so there.

Will i then be able to change the format once that is done? I feel like i have tried just about everything there is to do. However, i haven't tried that.

Thank for the direction.

Mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:1/13/2003 9:50:44 PM

Change the format to what?

All ACID MIDI tracks on the main time line have a file on disk associated to them. When you load a MIDI file into ACID, this file is associated to the track. If you create a NEW MIDI track in ACID, a file is created for the track. If you record a new MIDI track, a file is created. These are all standard MIDI Files.

If you do any edits to your MIDI track in ACID, you can either save the changes with the project by doing a Save project _or_ directly to the file associated to the MIDI track.

Note that the file associated to a MIDI track is not AUTOMATICALLY saved to by ACID. Any edits you make to your MIDI tracks will be save directly to the ACID project, but not written to the file associated to the ACID MIDI Track. This is by design and is consistent with how we deal with wave files in ACID. You must force ACID to write the MIDI edits you have done directly to the file.

If you don't want to destroy the original MIDI file you started with, you can do a Save As from the MIDI Track's property page. This will permit you to rename and/or relocate the MIDI file associated to that ACID MIDI track. It will commit all edits or recording for that MIDI track to a standard MIDI file.

Hope this clears things up a bit. If not, feel free to ask more questions.

Peter

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: dkistner

Date:1/14/2003 6:12:14 AM

I don't know how transferring licenses in Acid works or even if it's possible. If your friend's copy of Acid is no longer on his computer--i.e., you bought it from him--maybe you need to email SoFo and get them to transfer the license into your name. Otherwise, I expect what you have is essentially a demo or a crippled version.

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/14/2003 8:05:49 AM

I am with you there. But if i add lets say two new tracks and both are midis how do i combined them in a file that other programs will recognize. I don't really have many problems with midi files, but i can only edit them one at a time. If i want to combine the track i need to save to a acd. file so that it can be rendered and i am unable to do this. I can import a track ( song from a cd ) and i can get rendering to work. It is the track that i create that is the problem.


off to work . Thanks for all the help

mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: dkistner

Date:1/14/2003 8:24:40 AM

Mako, you have the opposite problem from what I usually have. I have to break my midi files into separate tracks in my scoring program, Harmony Assistant, before I import the files into Acid because Acid (unlike midi sequencers) does not automatically separate them into separate tracks. (This is essential when using VSTis.) There's a light version of Harmony Assistant, Melody Assistant, the shareware version of which I THINK will allow you to save the edited files. It's cheap to register if not.

Another option may be Stolen Track from Geniesys, which works in Acid. I have used this to separate midi files into tracks in Acid, but I've never tried to combine tracks with it. I've also never tried to save the adjusted midi files out of Acid. I think you can, though. You might like to try their demo and see if it works for you.

Diane

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/14/2003 7:02:23 PM

I guess what i am trying to do is is record my track in acid and then export them either individually ( which isn't a big problem since the midi's are seperate from the whole project ) but if i want to record and overlap track that i record in acid i can't change the format to something that another program can recognize ( such as a wav. or cda. for example ). It could be that I am not familiar with the program yet or like you suggested it might not be the full version.

I was sailing along and every thing was going smooth until this road block. It really is the only thing holding me up at this point.

How do I export my project to sound forge? I need to be able to change my project from acd. to something else.

I was on my way tonight to shop for acid at the music store but traffic was awful. So i am certainly will to head that route. I just feel that acid is an easier program to record on than some of the others i have tried. My intention is to be able to export the body of my work to sound forge which i already understand ( I think it is a good editing software ). We will have to wait until I can figure the rendering out. It is like a riddle. I can't under stand why sound forge doesn't recognize acid files. same company?

I haven't been this far yet but can acid burn to cd? That was where i was thinking of heading tonight. Will it burn a acd. file to cd? Curious.

Thanks for your input. I haven't given up. I have faith.

Thanks,

Mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:1/14/2003 7:54:15 PM

ACID wont let you render all of your MIDI tracks to a single MIDI file.

You can render all of your Softsynth routed MIDI tracks to an audio (i.e. Wave, MP3) file. This is done from the File | Render menu item.

Peter

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/14/2003 8:10:56 PM

I will have to play with soft synth. I keep thinking that i am missing a step somewhere along the way. Maybe that is part of my prob. The way the manual had stated i thought once the work was saved as the acd. file then all i would have to do is change the format and that would be it. Like i have said i can import other tracks and actually change there format ( or have the option to do so ). So that tells me that i might be missing some step somewhere.

I sure appriciate the suggestions.

Mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: dkistner

Date:1/15/2003 7:38:45 AM

Mako, I bought Acid and downloaded it directly from the SoFo site. It was cheaper doing it that way than ordering the boxed set. I was able to order the loop CD that comes with Acid and just pay for them to ship it to me. It was not much. Ordering it from SoFo will ensure you've got the latest version. I know I've bought software through Best Buy that was OLD and then it was a pain to get it upgraded. I once bought a Microsoft product this way and wound up being out about $350. It's a long story.

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/15/2003 8:14:44 AM

I went to amazon and they had a copy of if for about $160.00. That really isn't to bad.I really like the ease of acid. I just need to spend more time with it. I am still new to it. I just like software that is easy to use and acid is that.

The other guy ( peter ) has suggested that my prob. might be related to soft sync. I am going to sit down and try to figure it out. If not I will go to plan be. I just hope that I don't have te same prob. once I purchase the software.

Thanks for all your help

Mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/15/2003 5:07:20 PM

Broke down and bought the acid pro today. Got a deal on it too. It will be interesting to see if the same problem occurs or if it works differently. I will let you know

Thanks,

Mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/15/2003 6:27:56 PM

I just installed acid. I have two discs. one says content and I don't know what to do with it. In the install process I wasn't prompted to insert the disc. Any thoughts? I also have a assortment of other discs are they worth installing.

mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/15/2003 6:29:45 PM

I also noticed that i have 4.0a. Is it worth going to 4.0b?

Mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: dkistner

Date:1/16/2003 5:37:30 AM

The content disk is a bunch of loops. Yes, Mako, you want to upgrade to 4.0b. Definitely. Just go to the download link and look for the update. Once you enter your serial number, you can download it. Get the updated manual, too.

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/16/2003 8:21:41 AM

I will do that this evening. How ever i still have my prob. I am trying to play with soft syyth and i am starting to pull the hair out of my head. I seems that to use soft synth with my instrument it needs to be listed in the window of options ( which it is not ). I get dls soft synth by sonic foundry and when i am using soft synth only its patches are recognized and not my patches from my instrument ( which is a roland jp 8000 ).

any thought or do i need to explain in greater detail?

Mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:1/16/2003 10:24:32 AM

A Roland jp 8000 is not a softsynth. The Roland is an external synth.

You need to enable the MIDI output that your Roland is connected to. Assuming you have a MIDI cable connected to the MIDI in of your Roland and to a MIDI output port on your PC, you need to enable this MIDI output in ACID from the MIDI prefs page.

When you add a MIDI track to ACID, you then route this track to the MIDI output port that your Roland is connected to.

There will be no special users interface for your Roland. There is no bus that will show up in the ACID mixer page like you get when you add a softsynth. You cannot mix the analog audio from your Roland in ACID. You can adjust the pan and volume to the Roland using the track volume on the MIDI track you routed to the Roland or from the MIDI track properties page on a per channel basis. (This is useful if you have multiple MIDI tracks in ACID routed to your Roland.)

I hope this helps some.
Peter

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:1/16/2003 2:25:23 PM

Have you tried the sonic foundry tutorials? I just went there and they might have something to help. There is a 27 page pdf overview of new features. Look there.

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/16/2003 6:15:07 PM

Ok this makes sense.

That is typically what i have been doing. When i play with soft synth i just makes things worse. I can record from my analog synth to acid when i enable the input and output device to match my sound card ( which is when my midi cables run to ).

So because it is an analog synth i really can't record multiple tracks with different patches? Every time i change a patch my track changes to match the patch i select on the keyboard. Which can be cool if you really what to explore which patch is best suited for what you are wanting to record.

Will i still be able to change the format from midi to wav or am i stuck with midis.

I really haven't made much progress with that yet. I was able to record one track and have rendering usable. However i can't remember what i did to make it work.

I would like to use sound forge to edit but i can't get it to read midis. That really is the reason for the change in format.

thanks for the input. Some question definately answered.

Mako

Subject:RE: rendering midi files?

Reply by: makodog

Date:1/16/2003 6:15:49 PM

Thanks i am on my way

Mako